Another HV shocker....i'm assuming this isn't right

[nickymorris]

A friend of mine saw a HV yesterday. She's BF and topping up with Soya formula as her DS is lactose intollerant and has dropped from the 75th to 25th percentile.

HV told her that Soya Formula could make her DS infertile.

She's pretty confident that this is a load of rubbish but when you're worried about your baby anyway this was just another thing...

Not entirely rubbish, but very exaggerrated.

No baby should have soya formula unless it has been prescribed by a properly qualified dietitian or paediatrician.

Her baby is unlikely to be really lactose intolerant, as lactose is in breastmilk, and true LI babies cannot even have breastmilk for this reason.

Mild and temporary LI, after a bout of gastroenteritis, is possible and is best treated in most cases with breastfeeding, which repairs the gut.

Soya formula contains hormones called phyto-oestrogens which have led experts to be concerned about the effect on a baby's development, especially baby boys.This is however speculative,

Yet it is not really sensible to give soya formula unless the baby really can't be nourished any other way.

This baby needs a proper diagnosis of his feeding problems. If his weight is causing concern then bf can be improved - if she is really keen on topping up, for some reason, she can use expressed breastmilk or regular non-soya formula (unless, as I say, someone qualified reckons the risks are outweighed by the benefits).

Hope this helps!

She can check out soya formula herself by googling for its risks.

It is not usually recommended to give baby boys soya in any form below a year old. There was one study (on primates not humans) suggesting a link between infertility and soya in boys when given at such an early stage of their development. Is he lactose intolerant or allergic/intolerant to cows milk protein? For either or both of these a number of specialist formulas exist, names include Cow and Gate Pepti Junior, Nutramigen 1, Neocate and Nutramigen AA. All of these are lactose-free and have either had the protein broken down (Pepti Junior and Nutramigen 1) or are man-made solutions containing amino acids which are the building blocks of protein (Neocate, Nutramigen AA). All taste pretty vile but Pepti Junior is the best of a bad lot.

there is also evidence that giving soya formula to babies under the age of 6mths, especially if the baby is already allergic to dairy, can make them allergic to soya aswell and can cause other allergies.

I have had three allergic babies, two I managed to breastfeed exclusively up to 9mths by adapting my own diet, but DS2 I was unable to do this with as it was being detrimantal to my own health too, so he was given hypo-allergenic formula.

Just read this. We drink soya milk in our household (no intolerance as such, just prefer it to cow's milk) and I have been giving it to DS2 (aged 9 months) with cereal etc, (his main milk drink is still breast milk) Should i be worried??

Tryharder, probably not. My ds2 has severe cows milk allergy and the dietician told us to avoid soya products until he reached a year old for the reasons above. I think though it is more a problem with using soya formula because of the sheer quantities that they consume. I guess a bit on cereals is fine (though I do tend to use calcium-fortified oat milk for cereals). We do give ds2 soya yoghurt simply because he's a fussy eater and this is the one thing we can guarantee he will eat. The dietician and paed were fine with this so long as it wasn't huge amounts every day.

DD was dairy allergic and the other problem with soya milk I used to worry about (she had it after a yr old) was its very bad for teeth especially in a bottle. She should be v. careful about teeth brushing.

tryharder- we used to use normal soyamilk (not formula) for DD in cooking and were told not to by the dietician because it hasn't got enough calories for babies (equivalent to skimmed when they should have full fat). She was a tiny scrawny thing though so if you don't have that worry maybe it doesn't matter?

My dd's dietician also advised against soya formula (we used a non-dairy formula instead) but recommended fortified soya yogurts to help build my skinny dairy-allergic dd up. Her rule of thumb seemed to be: no soya under 6 months, aftter that ok but not as main source of nutrition.

I was told by someone with a baby who was LI that she didn't want to use soya milk and used goats milk instead .... ??

Anyone else heard of this.. i am told it is very easy to digest.. better than cows milk..

stercus, goats milk has lactose in it as well. all milk does.
as tiktok mentioned earlier, truely lactose intolerant children canb;t even have breastmilk.
so goat's milk not suitable for a lactose intolerant person

some people with a cow's milk protein intolerance or allergy can have goat's milk. but the proteins in it are very similar to those in cow's milk so most people are unable to use goat's either

Cheers

We have goats milk i find it a lot better for DP who has allergies coming out of his ears lol

BF DS i don't know if the GM is any good for him through me, but i know you shouldn't have it unpasteurised, same for any milk really.. thanks v much for your reply x

I think up to 12 months you need to use a proper super-scientific non-dairy formula (I keep wanting to call it Neutrogena but you know what I mean). We kept going with it longer than that because dd was such a skinny girl, but once her weight came up we switched to fortified rice milk.

All on the dietitian's advice, of course.

Have to say though, it would be a lot better if she could go to 100% breastmilk, either expressed of directly. You can drop formula top-ups one at a time, starting with the morning ones, over a few weeks fairly easily, or you can go cold turkey and just feed-feed-feed for about 3 days until your boobs catch up with the demand. That's as long as her latch and positioning is good of course, and probably should be done with advice from a breastfeeding supporter of some kind.

Thanks everyone - I've sent my friend a link to this thread. Lots for her to think about.

my dd2 has dropped from the 75th to the 25th centile2. she bottlefeeds as the time is taking 2ozs 2 hourly

Be better to start a new thread, tink...then it doesnt get confusing.

I'm the Mum the original question was about. I have 2 problems - my 7 month old has a dairy allergy (bright red and hives with any contact to cow's milk products), and I don't produce enough breast milk (he has slowly dropped from 75th to 25th percentile). I'm still breast feeding because of the allergy but top up with one bottle of soya formula a day and use soya formula for cereal etc because of the low milk supply. Despite him eating lots now he is on solids he still hasn't gained the weight back.

I've waited 6 weeks for a dietician appointment which is finally next week. And 2 GPs have been reluctant to suggest anything for the formula issue. I'm now waiting for a referral to a paediatrician.

Any other suggestions while I wait for these appointments?

Have you seen a BF counsellor? I should think the best solution is to get your milk supply up if possible, have you tried Fenugreek supplements or domperidone on prescription? Both of these were things advised to me when I was struggling with supply and really helped.

Have you tried the cow's milk protein free formulas mentioned earlier in the thread?

Hi, bournie. The symptoms you describe sound more like cows milk protein intolerance, and you don't need soya for that - in fact as we've described here soya formula is best avoided unless you really can't use anything else but that. There are specialist formulas available which can be used instead - the dietitian should be able to tell you more.

However it would be easier all round if you could increase his intake of breastmilk. His weight will probably improve as well, if you can do this - solids are not a great way for a baby to gain weight, as very few are as calorie dense as breastmilk, so it's not surprising his weight situation is the same.

You can call any of the bf helplines, and they will hep you with ideas on increasing his intake of breastmilk - it's basic stuff, but a RL discussion is best so you can actually work out which ways you can do this best. You need to feed more often, day and night, which means offering more breastfeeds, and offering more 'sides' each time. Hope this helps.

Is there any chance he's just meant to be smaller than his birthweight would suggest? Are you worried about his development in any other ways? If you didn't know how much he weighed, would you be worried at all?

How often are you bfing him at the mo?

DS (13 months) was just diagnosed as dairy allergic.

Has your friend tried going dairy free herself?

bournie, if your ds is dairy allergic (and it does sound like a true allergy rather than an intolerance), you'll need to go dairy free yourself to improve his weight. The reason for this is that the cow milk protein in your milk can affect his absorption of nutrients. If your dietician appointment is sometime away then go to your GP and ask for a prescription for a hypoallergenic formula and a calcium supplement for you if you go dairy free. I got a prescription for all of them and then tried each to see which ds2 would take (he is anaphylactic for cows milk).

In the meantime as your ds is 7 months with respect to solids, avocados are great for putting a bit of weight on as these are really calorie dense.

It is quite common for dairy allergic children to have a weight problem and the 25th centile isn't at the extreme of being low weight. My ds1 (muliple allergies, inluding egg and nuts) was on the 25th centile from birth till he was about 2 years old (he's now around the 50th), ds2 started on the 9th and is now between the 2nd and 0.4th (dairy allergic). A consultant gastroenterologist told me that ds2's weight gain was absolutely typical of what she saw in children with allergies (due to malabsorption of nutrients).

That's really interesting academic about what the gastroenterologist said about children with allergies.

My ds also got bright hives on contact with milk. Seems to be quite common having read about it a few times on mumsnet. How do you know you have a low milk supply? I'm not sure his drop in centiles is that uncommon. Is he happy alert etc? I would slowly drop the topups and breastfeed.

sorry - ignore my post completely. I hadnt refreshed since last night and far more knowledgeable people have since answered your post!

Bournie - hives etc are definitely signs of an allergy NOT lactose intolerance so please ignore anyone who tells you different (sorry if this offends anyone but I am sick to death of people thinking intolerance=mild allergy, they are entirely different and such advice can be downright dangerous).

My ds1 was allergic to dairy (symptoms similar to yours). He was fine on soya formula, though we did move him to Pepti at age 1 cause he was getting so much soya from other sources - yogurts etc. Our dietician at the time told me such a change was not really necessary but agreed to stop me worrying FWIW I know think the worries about soya (infertility etc are greatly overblown) -a lot of soya is eaten in China for example and they are yet to be overtaken by widespread male infertility. However, the possibility of developing a secondary soya allergy is more of a concern (my ds2 cannot tolerate soya milk, yogurt etc though is OK with milk )

Is your lo full of energy and otherwise healthy? If so, don't worry too much about the drop in percentiles. Ds1 went from the 70th percentile (at birth) to the 9th - nothing to do with his allergies as these were diagnosed early and he was mostly breastfed. Now at 3 and back eating dairy again he is on the 25th percentile for height and the 9th for weight and is very healthy and active as anything. Nature obviously intends him to be a skinny little rabbit...