Come and agree with me about incident A, and be suitably cross about incident B please!

[MamaG]

BACKGROUND

I had a very difficult birth with BabyG - emCS under GA after 24 hours of labour, lost a lot of blood during the CS. Was exhausted but determined to BF. BabyG was BIG (10 9) and was almost constantly at the breast - on day 2 (I think) a MW snapped at me "this baby is starving" after I'd refused to let them "top him up" for the millionth time so I let them (and sobbed as they farking did it).

INCIDENT A

A woman today told me I'd ruined the baby's gut by allowing them to give him some formula. It was the only bottle of formula he has ever ever had (now 15 weeks). It is bollocks isn't it? I'm sure it is!

INCIDENT B

As I sat BF the baby yesterday, my (childless younger) sister said to me "urgh I think BF is awful, it makes me cringe, I won't be doing it if I have childrne, its gross". I thought "fuck off" but said "well you have to make your own choices. Ido it because blah blah blah and its a bit hurtful of you to say these things to me as I sit feeding". I bit down the response I really wanted to give

incident a all depends on whether you believe the virgin gut theory.
I actually think it makes a LOT of sense, and technically ANY food other than breastmilk will have an effect on the virgin gut and change the unique gut flora that a baby is born with and keeps if it is exc breastfed.

that said, one bottle would not have "ruined" your baby's gut because, as the theory says, the gut will heal itself if the baby is then exclusively breastfeeding. I think it takes about 2 weeks of exc BF to restore it to its former state.

as for incident b. well, narrow-minded, ignorant and downright rude people probably don't even deserve a reply. just mere contempt

A - Bollocks

B - what a insensitive remark

So even if the formula hd affected BabyG's gut, it would hav been back to normal within 2 weeks? That suits me

absolutely. so, if you meet said woman again tell her to do her research on virgin gut properly lol

I thought even a normal vaginal delivery altered the gut flora??

good article here which mentions vaginal and c-section birhts and the virgin gut

Both comments were unkind and unnecessary.

But... coming from a family who has a history of type 1 diabetes, I did not want my children to have any formula as newborns, if avoidable. (once I'd read about the possible link between exposure to proteins in cows' milk and type1 diabetes that is).

mamag, i asked my neonatal guy (seems geekily up on reserach etc) and he said the same as tiktok, which is that yes, obv putting something other than bm has an effect but that the effect is temp. he's not that fussed for the virgin gut thing either, as it happens, he just thinks bm is best for babies.

I think you just have to do your best, tbh. If it helps a tearful mum with battered nipples or whatever to give a rare bottle of ff, then so be it. It's her baby and therefore up to her.

The problem comes when ostensibly well-intentioned strangers start effectively forcing it on mums for all sorts of social reasons that have nothing to do with the mum and baby, but instead because of their own misunderstandings about natural processes (eg growth charts, myths about bm not being good or plentiful enough) and how to support bf mothers, does it not??

That's why each time I have a baby I buy a single carton of ff, just so I know it's there in case I get knocked over by a bus or whatever. But the carton usually gets thrown out. But I would use it if I had to.

With the virgin gut thing - would that be affected if the baby was given Calpol or some other medication too?

Both comments were ridiculously insensitive and your sister's comment just stupid.

no apparently it isn't affected by medicines because it's the proteins or enzymes or something in the food or whatever you're giving that causes the gut flora to change.
medicines don't have the same effect.

I don't have any links to back that up, but it's what i've read/been told when looking stuff up previously!

Hi, MamaG

Yes your sister's comments were rude and inappropriate but can you manage in your generous heart to be glad that you know how she feels so you can indoctrinate educate her about bf? Just trying to put a positive spin on it......

Thanks for info about virgin gut as had similar thing - dd given formula in hospital as she was early and had to go under the lights so the doctor was worried about dehydration. Shes been exclusively bf since then so hope its right that this counteracts the early formula.

as I understand it, there is little evidence to support the virgin gut theory, and one bottle of formula isn't likely to make a significant difference.
I thought the main issue with giving one bottle early on is the chance of messing up the supply/demand balance? I know the effects of formula are dose dependent but as others have suggested surely the breastfeeding would repair anything caused by one bottle pretty quickly.

Bollocks to both of them.

Your sister is extremely rude for saying that to you

...and formula may not be breastmilk but it isn't poison. 'counteract early formula'?@Kerala. Urrrr...get over yourself!

re. medicines - calpol etc won't affect the "virgin gut" but antibiotics will! And yes, a normal vaginal birth will also affect the gut flora, as will the baby thumbsucking/dummy-sucking.

slight problem that all the healthiest children I know are ones where I know the occasional bottle was given

not that I suppose there's a connection

dd otoh who was religiously fed expressed breastmilk is one of the sickliest children I know

again no connection

just that you can't control everything in life

midwives were out of order.

woman A - utter bitch who clearly has nothing better to do than belittle people. Oh and yes, complete bollocks!

sister B - think of all the irritating things you can save up to say to HER once she has her babies!!.

Here we have the older 'wisewomen' MWs trying to control how you feed your baby and enforcing the regime they brought their own babes up on. Followed by a peer who thinks it's OK to say something really nasty and scientifically incorrect to you. And finally the younger (though not young enough to get away with such a daft remark) woman who is clearly not at ease with bodies and all the things they can do once you have a baby. And MamaG in the middle having to take it.

I really hope that one day all generations will be able to agree on a sensible, healthy, calm and moderate approach to the issue of feeding babies and stop using nursing mums as an arena in which to play out their own guilt/self-righteousness/ insecurities.

I add my agreement to all these posts and would also add that MamaG you know what you're doing, you're over thinking the formula thing (some babies survive childhood only by a miracle they way they are fed/treated so BabyG is going to be just fine), people say stupid things and you want to punch them but you rise above it and handled your situation with your sister perfectly. Do remind her of it when she has her first child and has an overwhelming desire to bf!!

My ex-SIL once said "urgh, my sister (her twin) has loads of stretchmarks, disgusting..." when I was sitting there heavily pg with DS. I smugly soothingly told her that luckily I didn't get any stretchmarks nor did my mum so must be genetic and what a shame that she will obviously get them too as her sister had. . I heart my lovely new SIL!!

at no stretchmarks! Yes, I am over thinking it. You know I always over think things

To be honest, when someone is as rude as your sister was (not just misinformed, but actively hostile) I would be tempted to say something as rude back along the lines of 'Gosh, won't you love your future child AT ALL then?', or 'Do you think it's actually likely you'll ever have children now though?'

I'm a princess, we don't get them!

Isn't funny though how a confident, intelligent woman (like I know you are my love) can be made to feel like crap by some idiotic remarks? What is that about?

Go reassure yourself of your marvellousness and don't give any of it another thought.