is this theory plausable when making up ds bottles?? advise please?

[mad4mybaby]

when i make ds2 bottles i dont warm it up and never did with ds1 either, anyway this week he was in hospital and we werent allowed to makke up the bottles and i believe they made up them with boiling water then we put in a v v cold fridhe, anyway, we had to remove thw chill when we got them from the fridge but never gave it to him warm.

anyway he fed better in hosp and had alot less wind..soon as we are home and makimg up with cooled boiled water as before he is back to how he was and v windy. We cant decide if this is something to do with the way the milk was made up??

opinions anyone? (no opinions on not giving him warm milk though please )

I have heard from a number of different people, the warmer the milk the easier the wind.
I also started feeding ds at room temp (would leave bottles of water on kitchen counter, add powder and use), he had very stubborn wind that was causing him alot of pain and discomfort so when a friend told me the wind comes up easier if the milk was warm, I had to do it

Sorry, not sure if I read that correctly, do you mean you don't want to give him warm milk? And don't want to be told that the milk being warm will help?

thats how i do it and same with ds1, although when in hosp he wasnt drinking it warm, was just made up hot? How doo you actually make it warm? make up as above and put in hot bowl of water? What about when out and about? I tried taking out some coolwater and adding hot but felt too hot, its allnew tome!

I'd say that what probably happened was although you took the chill off the hospital milk, it was probably still warmer than that at home iyswim.
Guidlines tell us to make each bottle up as and when we need it

1. Boil kettle and leave water to cool for half an hour
2. pour into bottle and add required amount of powder
3. mix powder, attach top to bottle and run under cold tap to get to correct temp.

The reason for doing it like this is that the formula is not sterile, and although unlikely, if your baby got ill from the powder it can be very serious.

When I was bottle feeding (and intend to do same with ds2) I filled bottles in morning with boiling water, placed in large bowl of cold water, once cool put in the fridge. When needed I added powder and warmed in a jug of hot water or microwave (have to be very careful that way as does heat uneven). When we went out, I took water in the bottle, powder in one of those avent plastic containers you can buy and took a plastic jug and a thermos flask of boiling water

You are adding powder to cooled boiled water?
This is very, very wrong.
You MUST make formula up with boiling water that is at least 70degC - did the nurses not explain this to you in the hospital? The reason is that powder is NOT sterile. It can contain bugs which could make your child very very poorly

Once you have added the hot water, you can leave to cool to an acceptable level. Alternatively if you are adamant you want to give the milk cool, then switch to ready made as this has been heat treated to make it sterile. You can then store that at ambient temperature.

NHS guidelines to bottle feeding
Click on the link and select open to see the PDF. You can download for printing as well.

i have had 2 FF babies and no one has EVER told me that!!! How awful do i feel!! OMG, my poor boys. I was literally leaving cooled boiled water in the sterilised bottles and when ready to use added the powder and would shake it untill dissolved. i cant believe i didnt know that i feel terrible.

So run it by me then, to make it as quick as possible (also have toddler and have to give ds2 various meds at certain times!) so i can still have some cooled boiled water in the bottles on the work top yes? So if for EG i make up 4oz feeds what do i do?? Ds2 wakes and then feeds straigt away for a feed (9 weeks old)

oh and BTW you cant get ready made formula with this milk

i dont use formula now with the new guidelines, but have used it for others kids i have looked after, i would put some cool boiled water in fridge/counter, put half or 3/4 required amount of water boiled hot from kettle in bottle, add powder and dissolve, then add cooled boiled water to make bottle to full amount

you still with me?

i dont use formula now with the new guidelines, but have used it for others kids i have looked after, i would put some cool boiled water in fridge/counter, put half or 3/4 required amount of water boiled hot from kettle in bottle, add powder and dissolve, then add cooled boiled water to make bottle to full amount

you still with me?

In order for the powder to become sterile and therefor safe, you need to be adding it to boiled water that is of a temp of at least 70 degrees which you will get straight from the kettle/leaving for no longer than 30 mins. You then cool down to temp, but powder is only sterile if added to boiling water, so you would have to make each bottle up as you go.

little ducks, i thought about doing that but how do you make sure you have the right amount of water if you are adding some to water that has the powder already in it? Did you measure it? So really then should i have the ready sterilised bottles and then can i boil the kettle and mix it up with say 1oz boiling water with the powder and THEN add cool boiled water? Or do i have to make the whole 4oz boiling water and then cool it in a bowl of water?

I could never get my head round mixing formula for some reason, and I like to think I am reasonably intelligent.

I was paranoid about the risks with powder/ mixing. Everyone seemed to be telling me to do something different.

So we used ready made formula milk, although that is slightly more expensive, it was so much easier. And I avoided any mistakes which could have made ds ill.

i think you would need more than 1 oz boiling water to poperly dissolve powder, you may need to experiment to get bottle to correct temp for your baby, could you have a sterile jug or pot of cooled boiled water:

put 3oz hot boiled water in (you want a 7 oz bottle)

add powder

add 4 oz cold boiled water, measure on side of bottle 4oz from wateer and powder level, dont just go up to 7oz mark as powder has some volume

you can cool it down once its made but that tend to end up with a screaming baby ime, with an older baby i poured the milk between two cups repeatedly to cool it but in the early days this doesnt feel 'sterile' enough

ok, so i'm confused. there seems to be 2 popular ways of making bottles up. 1 is to leave the water on the side and add the formula when its needed, and the other is to make up the milk and store it in the fridge. both go against the guidelines as for the first way you are supposed to have the water at 70 degrees to kill the bacteria and for the second way u are supposed to discard any unused formla asap and always within 2hrs according to the box (does anyone know why this is?). i accept that the best way is as the guidelines state but which of the two above ways would be less harmful? why can't you store it for more than 2 hours? and does anyone actually know the statistics for children being made "very very poorly" or have the research? i'm just curious as there's lots of conflicting advice!

When my mum had twins 3 years ago she would:

Sterilise bottles at night
Fill with boiling wter
Cool in basin of cool water for 10 minutes
Add formula powder
Cool for another 10 minutes then put in fridge and heat in microwave when needed.

When I had my son 2 years ago I:

Sterilised at night
Fill with boiling water
Cool in basin
Put in fridge
Add powder as needed

The HV told both of us we were doing it the correct way even though we both done it totally different.

If I were you I'd try the ready made milk as sounds a bit hectic in your house and anything to make life easier.

Which brand do you use?

Yarrow 5 - several babies died in europe as a result of tainted milk, and I think in the states and China too.

Enterobacter sakazakii was the bacteria found in the european cases in powdered milk (which isn't sterile itself). You need to mix the unsterile powder with hot water to kill any bugs that might be there.

www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Publications/PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/DH_4123619

This is the DoH leaflet.

yarrow - bacteria starts to form which is why you need to discard the milk. I think the DOH guidelines are fairly easy to follow and I would stick with them. I think these other ways are probably more convenient but they are putting the baby's health at risk. The formula HAS to be made with water at least 70 degrees to kill the bacteria in the formula - cooled boiled water is not going to do this! The bottles can then be cooled to the right temp by putting in a jug of cold/ice water or running under a tap or whatever but you can not store these bottles in a fridge to be heated up later - even if it is more convenient - it is very risky!

Thanks for the link pooka i think that should answer everyones questions!!! It would be useful it that were handed out routinely when a mum decides to formula feed. i was offered no advice or information so have been doing it wrong for nearly 6mths. luckily ds is fine but i'll be making them differently from now on.

I think how careful you need to be depends on the age and health of the baby concerned. The original European Food Safety Agency research which led to the changes in guidelines says that the risk from non-sterile formula is to premature babies, low birthweight babies, to newborns (under 6 weeks) and babies whose immune systems are suppressed for some reason (e.g. cancer treatment). The guidelines were changed for all babies as a precaution but even the original research found no risk from the bacteria in formula to healthy babies over a couple of months in age.

gosh dont know what to do now. i used boiling water (4oz) then added 4 scoops of formula and then cooled it under the tap and then tried putting in cool water in the sink it took AAAAAAGGGES!! Screaming baby and that makes his reflux worse which makes him cry more and so on. Is there an quicker way to cool it down??

he is 9 weeks btw if i hadnt said

I didn't ff myself so I'm not sure - but don't ff babies have more of a 'schedule' as such - in that you kind of have an idea of when they're going to be hungry for their next feed? So could you start making the bottle up a bit in advance - pre-empting when he'll want it so that it has time to cool before he's crying for it? Or what about using a jug of ice water? Would that cool it any faster?

Sorry only just come to you!

Am very on your behalf that no-one bother to explain properly how to make up formula! Please don't blame yourself, it is a lot to take in and I believe that if you are bottle feeding when leaving hospital, the HCPs have a duty to explain to you how it all works and give you a copy of the leaflet that I linked to - and to ensure you are happy and understand the info!

Sorry if i scared you , but it is very important that you follow these instructions.

was interested to read in that DOH leaflet that breastfeeding women should take Vitamin D supplements - first i've heard of that.