is this theory plausable when making up ds bottles?? advise please?

[mad4mybaby]

when i make ds2 bottles i dont warm it up and never did with ds1 either, anyway this week he was in hospital and we werent allowed to makke up the bottles and i believe they made up them with boiling water then we put in a v v cold fridhe, anyway, we had to remove thw chill when we got them from the fridge but never gave it to him warm.

anyway he fed better in hosp and had alot less wind..soon as we are home and makimg up with cooled boiled water as before he is back to how he was and v windy. We cant decide if this is something to do with the way the milk was made up??

opinions anyone? (no opinions on not giving him warm milk though please )

I'd imagine so, just keep an eye on it. I only used mine when we went out and through the night so didn't have to leave bedroom so there wasn't water in it for longer than maybe 6 hours at a time, then obviously I'd wash it but found build up happened quite quickly. Sure you can buy something to de-scale though, so it'll be ok.

Aptamil, and other formula manufacturers, are giving out the wrong advice on their helplines. The NCT is campaigning to get this changed but so far no luck, see press release
As a HV I find this infuriating, and keep coming across it. When I phoned the Hipp helpline to ask why they had given the wrong advice to a mother of a 1 week-old baby was told they were worried someone might scald themselves pouring very hot water into a bottle . The policy in our area is to give out leaflet and discuss making up feeds at new birth visit - we have to document this in baby's record. But we seem to be a lone voice in the wilderness and people prefer to listen to family or friends, or the formula manufacturers.

mad4mybaby on Sun 25-Jan-09 09:25:49
its jus s hard as there is no way that i can boil a kettle 30 mins in advance and know that he'll def feed within that time....

The water has to be 70c or higher to kill the (potential) bugs in formula !!! You don't have to wait 30 minutes after boiling, you can use it straight away if you want(although some formulas don't mix well with boiling water apparantly)

Really what the guidelines are saying is that 30 minutes after the kettle has boiled the water is no longer 70c...i.e. It is too cold too make the formula up safely.

If you are in a rush have you considered the ready made up cartons ? They are heat treated and hence sterile and don't need to be reheated to 70c ?

i realise you dont have to wait 30 mins i meant that he doesnt feed at the same time and i end up keep boiling water up (then getting rid of) as thinking he want a feed then gone past the '30 min' slot after kettles boiled. ive been using water boiling from the kettle and it is taking far too long (obv that is what ive kept to thou) as i said before ds has v bad reflux and the waiting around for the bottle to cool down despite doing every thin i can think of to cool it quickly makes his reflux worse (as crying does) and then he ends up in too much pain.

He is on nanny goat formula (under paed advise as ds1 had aswell) and you cant get ready made cartons..

Just asking the question:

I use the warm water from the tap.

I think it's interesting that over there the recommendation is to use cool boiled water as here that isn't recommended. The instructions on the back of the formula say to use the correct amount of water, and to ask a doctor is warm boiled water, or sterilizing is necessary both of which my doctor said no to.

asking = answering

Can you tell it's first thing in the morning here?

No - here the rec. is not to use cool boiled water....it's to use boiled water that is no cooler than 70 deg C. That way salmonella and enterobacter sakerzakii in the powder are reduced to an acceptably safe level.

Guidance is the same throughout Europe, AFAIK.

Maybe the powder in US formula has not been found to have these bugs in.

I did a google search and from what I can see the same bacteria was responsible for a death in New Mexico. THere wasn't information however about the age of the baby - and guidance I found at
babybitesbook.blogspot.com/2008/12/powdered-infant-formula-not-for.html suggests that FDA advice relates primarily to small/premature infants or those with preexisting medical conditions.

Stripeysox - thanks for that info. It's certainly what I was told by Aptamil and presumed they would be very careful to get it right given their potential liability issues if they gave out the wrong info - seems I was presuming too much!

Sorry if I've added to any confusion. In fact I followed the DoH guidelines anyway for the first 6m with ds and found putting the bottle in a jug of water with ice in was the quickest way of cooling it down. Hope things get better for you soon mad4mybaby.

I agree it's interesting to see what happens in the US though. It does make you wonder why the guidance is so different there, seems unlikely the formula is very different to ours but I don't know the answer!

If anyone is interested in the original research that led to the changes in guidelines, it can be found at www.efsa.europa.eu/EFSA/efsa_locale-1178620753812_1178620777466.htm It's quite heavy-going but there's a bulletpoint summary near the back of the summary document, around page 24. It concludes, among other things, that the majority of cases of illness have been among babies under 4-6 weeks in age, and that the greatest risk comes from unhygienic preparation and keeping made-up formula for lengthy periods at above fridge temperature, allowing the bacteria to multiply.