Can I ask a question about extending breastfeeding purely in the spirit of an enquiring mind, and not at all to cause a ruction?

[chancelloroftheexCHEQUERS]

Just wondered really, if the idea is that you should let a child feed until they self-wean (which it is as I understand it) then is a child who self-weans at, say, 20 months, missing out in comparison to one who weans at, say, 30 months?

sycamore - do not let it sink! I'm not getting involved in this one, but could not resist the opp to have a laugh at Nancy's expense. I know she has a sense of humour and will indulge me

No more highjack....as you were.

Yes, if they self-wean at 18m they will miss out as (from kellymom) breastfeeding continues to be a valuable source of nutrition and disease protection for as long as breastfeeding continues. However, if my toddler had self-weaned at 18m, I'd have been perfectly happy with that.

No Nancy you didn't attack me, you bore me.

Your posts in this board are always predicable, negative and only contain 'Nancy's opinions' never anything interesting nor backed by research.

If you want to really debate, why not read the OP and give an opinion on self weaning.

Really signing off now

Thanks Nancy

agree with the majority on here. I know several 3/4/5yr olds who are/were still breastfed and without exception are all highly independent, well adjusted children.

quite frankly if my 4 yr old wasn't ready to move out of his cot and into a bed I wouldn't force him
I wouldn't force him to potty train if he wasn't ready.

so I am not sure your "arguments" stand Nancy.

it's got everything to do with letting your child take the lead and do things in their own time.
and nothing to do with holding a child back and babying them for as long as a mother wants to.

the dyad will go on nursing for as long as it is mutually enjoyable and necessary. no longer.

I would be interested to hear what studies/research/personal experience you have to back up your opinions. or whether they are, in fact, the result of ignorance and what you "think" may happen in such a nursing relationship.

not trying to start anything, genuinely curious

oh, and to the OP. I think that letting a child wean naturally when they are ready is the BEST thing for them.
so, although they would technically miss out on the nutritional side of breastfeeding, emotionally they would be ready for weanming and so it would be good for them.

does that make sense?

Yep, that makes sense thisisyesterday.

Breastfeeding is so much more than nutrition isn't it.

absolutely! and I do think that natural term breastfeeding can be hard to get your head round if you haven't done it, if that makes sense?

before I had my first baby i will admit to being one of these people who thought that breastfeeding was a bit yucky
i bf him, and am still bf-ing my 15 month old lol

Yes I prefer the term 'natural term breastfeeding', but 'extended breastfeeding' is much more commonly used - we just need to stamp it out!
I fully intend to allow ds to self wean. However long it takes.

Just as long as it is before he hits secondary school lol.

For me at this age (DD is 17 months and bf) the nutrition gaining from breastfeeding is a bonus. More important in my eyes is the bonding and comfort it brings to the child, as well as making them feel more secure. Therefore whether DD self weans soon or way in the future, I'll be pleased that she was able to make the choice herself

thisisyesterday I had a similar idea before my ds was born- it wasn't that I thought it was yucky per se, just that I would have to go back to work and objected to being a milk bag. I wasn't very maternal pre birth. 18 months later I went away for the evening (he was only on a prebed feed by then) and when I came back that was it.
It's funny, but in my circle I was an extended feeder, the closest to me was someone who managed about a year. It was undoubtedly the contact that we both enjoyed most, he certainly didn't need the nutrition- although (before you jump on my head) I accept the antibodies yadayadayada provided are still beneficial.
TB perfectly honest, I think he wouldv'e stopped sometime before it was me who kept it going!

Nancy, really, you don't seem to grasp the concept of debate either. Any point anyone makes about research proper, validated, peer-reviewed research based on more than one person's experience seems to be countered by "well, in my opinion that's wrong". Research shows there is a nutritional benefit? Nancy thinks that's wrong. Research shows it encourages independence? Nancy thinks the complete opposite.

It isn't possible to debate with you under those circumstances. It isn't really possible even to have an interesting discussion under those circumstances.

P&A - yet another person putting into quotes something I have never at any time said.

Is there research that shows that an older child benefits from breast milk in a way that it couldn't gain simply from following a sensible, varied diet?

Natural term breastfeeding is not just about nutrition Nancy, as other people and I have said. Therefore a child does benefit from breastfeeding in a way that it couldn't gain simply from following a sensible, varied diet.

Oh and breast milk provides antibodies for as long as a child drinks it, providing a boost to the immune system which cannot be provided by a varied diet. Maybe not necessary, but certainly beneficial.

Does a "sensible, varied diet" include cow milk? If so why not human milk?

blimey! Just dipped into this one as thinking about weaning my 16 month old DS2 and wondering whether it will be easy (as with DS1 at 14 months) or a nightmare..... What a lot of strong feelings this issue arouses. Can't help feeling Nancy got a bit of a raw deal - as a 'neutral' on this one, it seems to me that she was definitely up for debate; it was others who were intransigent! Anyway, you've got to admit that being able to wear nice bras all the time would be great!

There is research that shows the antibody content of milk, yes.

Just posted this on another thread, but b/f DD until she was about 13 months. She was never ill. She self weaned and about a month later, started getting asthma like symptoms.

DS, who is 10 months, has never really been ill (other than a weird rash) and he's still b/f. Over Christmas, his dad had the norovirus and he didn't pick it up.

I attribute this to b/fing...

CHEQUERS - I think it is rare for a child to truely self wean before the age of 2, without some form of mother-led intervention...whether intentional or not....but I think the idea of self-weaning means that the child is emotionally ready to not need to suckle, has a good diet to sustain and grow them and also has a healthy immune system to cope without help from bm....so they wouldn't necessarily be missing out, because they simple don't need it anymore.

Nancy66 - I can personally say that I used to think feeding an older child who walked and talked was rather weird and I couldn't picture myself doing it at all...but here I am 4 years later missing having that relationship with my son (would weaned around his 4th birthday) LOL. You don't just suddenly feed a 4 year old....you feed your baby, who grows into a toddler, who then grows into a child...they just grow and you carry on providing what they need

As for them being school age...technically they're not...education is only compulsory from the term after they turn 5 ...and why does a child going to school mean they are automatically ready to not need to bf?

What about countries where they don't start school until later?

What about before schools existed? (which isn't all that long ago)

The fact is we are mammals and mammals suckle their young until they need to. Read any basic wildlife book & see how long other mammals feed for and you will see that 'extended' feeding as many call it is perfectly normal for our species. The fact that our society demands (imo premature) independence of our children doesn't change the biology.

"I think it is rare for a child to truely self wean before the age of 2, without some form of mother-led intervention...whether intentional or not"

So sorry but have to disagree!

If that REALLY is the case then there a lot of mums out there who were feeling really proud of feeding until their dcs self-weaned who may now feel a bit deflated.

Let the dcs do what they want and all will be happy - even if that's self weaning at 18months.

I saw a 3/4 year old bfing in the high street on Monday on a bench. I did a double take as it isn't a usual sight.

Seeing it put me off doing it myself as my overwhelming thought was:

'Her mum must be freezing'

However, I'm guessing when they are that age you CAN actually have a conversation that goes: 'Please can we wait until we get somewhere warmer' - 'okay mum' !?? Unlike when they are weeks old.

actually gagarin, i think it's true.

dd weaned at 12 months and in some ways i think she self weaned as while it was me who dropped feeds she never ever asked for them, it had been me instigating every feed.

she was happy to wean but i've never really felt comfortable saying it was self weaning as the reason she lost interest seemed to be my pregnancy. up til then she'd been a milk monster, then overnight seemed to lose interest. if i hadn't gotton pregnant with ds she might still be feeding for all i know.

ds however is made of sterner stuff..... even when my milk practically dried up with this pregnancy he's still asked for nursing.. and gotton very cross at me to find no milk there for him lol.

OP.... i think that whatever age a child naturally loses interest in nursing is the right age for that child.... other mammals don't have nursing periods set in stone, some young seem to find comfort in it for far longer than others and as long as the child is happy to stop then i don't think they're losing out in comparison to a child who nurses for longer, they're naturally programmed to stop at that paticular age.

I agree with the others who say that it's rare for a child who has been fed on cue from birth to self wean at 20 months. I think if you follow a child's lead then they will go on for as long as they need to and take whatever they need.

I also think that there are very few people who actually practise full term breastfeeding in a totally child-led way. By that, I do not mean that people practising full term feeding must never ever postpone a feed or refuse a request to feed. I just mean that the majority of people I've encountered who are feeding toddlers (myself included) have at various points either intentionally or unintentionally restricted or reduced their baby/child's feeding. I breastfeed my 3 yr 8 month old, but don't see myself as practising full term breastfeeding, as I retunred to work when he was 8.5 months old, so he couldn't set the pace on days I worked. then since 21 months I have been reducing or restricting his feeds gradually, including instigating night weaning. "Don't offer, don't refuse" is a weaning technique, and in the second half of the first year, offering solids and other drinks in place of feeds is too. Sleeping separately can lead to a reduction in feeds and earlier weaning as well. I don't think any of these things is right or wrong, each family does what's right for them, and in the main it seems to me that the duration of breastfeeding amongst children who continue into toddlerhood is therefore a comprimise between the child's needs and the mothers. Often a subsequent pregnancy intervenes, and perhaps this is one of nature's ways?

I'm another one who couldn't see myself breastfeeding a toddler, let alone 2 simultaneously . I remember when ds was a few weeks old a friend asked if I was going to be one of those people who breastfeed a 4 year old like in the posters they have in Australia, and I reacted with revulsion. I aimed for 12 months, and was amazed to actually get there, but by that point I intended to go on as long as ds needed to and I felt able to continue. As others have said, you don't just pick up a toddler one day and start bf them, it's a gradual development. I guess I'll find out in 4 month's time whether I'm really weird now or not...