I want to keep BFing but feel like I'm starving my son

[chandellina]

Ok, I know I'm not the first to have these problems but I could use some support and advice.

DS is 4.5 months old and breastfeeds at least 8 to 10 times a day. It's rare that he can go more than three hours between feeds, night or day. Each feed takes between 25 and 45 minutes. I nearly always have to end the feed because if I let him stay on, he will go indefinitely - 75 minutes or more when I've let him linger.

He was 50th centile at birth but took three weeks to get back to his birth weight and hung around the 9th centile for a while. He had started to creep up toward 20th in mid-October, which the last time I had him weighed until today.

Today he was back near the 9th centile.

I am now convinced once and for all that my milk supply is just crap and that he is taking so long to feed because he is waiting for the milk to come in as he feeds.

I've already done all the things to boost supply at various times, like taking Fenugreek and expressing. I still feel like I am just not giving him enough though.

We were giving one formula bottle a day around the time he was moving up the charts, and he can guzzle 8 oz. no problem very quickly so I do feel the issue is me, not him.

The past month we cut out formula entirely because we were out of the country, and I felt proud that he was exclusively BF. We thought he was thriving and were sure he was gaining well.

I'm about ready to throw in the towel - one, because I want him to thrive and two, because I'd like to sleep more than a couple of hours again and not have to worry about where I'm going to feed him every time I step out of the house for more than an hour.

Any advice??

i think that this is a key point:

"I felt proud that he was exclusively BF. We thought he was thriving and were sure he was gaining well."

THAT says much more to me than any amount of weighing and lines on charts etc etc. the fact that you were happy with how he was doing is much more important than what a line ina book says. if you hadn't had him weighed you wouldn't have given it a second thought woudl you?

breastfed babies gain relatively quickly, and then plateau. this is entirely normal, and he is at the right age for it.

the number of feeds and length of feeds is normal too. but you could always see if you can see a local BFC to check latch and stuff like that if you are worried?

most babies will also drink a bottle of milk, formula or ebm, if it is offered. it doesn't mean in any way that he is not thriving on your milk. Someone has to be down the bottom of the chart don't they? I read somewhere recently that a breastfed baby will always reach their genetic potential. he might jsut be meant to be light.
is he tall as well?

it sounds liek you're doing fine though,. if you were starving him you'd know about it lots of breastefd babies are still feeding frequently at night at that age, it honestly is normal (and good for him)

Sorry to hear that you are having such a stressful time. you have done so well to get this far, especially when its hard. I'm sorry i don't have any answers for you but hopefully and expert will come along soon....

Feeding every three hours, and for a long time, is perfectly normal at this age. I know it's hard, but it is normal.

Put the centile charts away for now. Is he happy? Smiling? Plenty of wet nappies? Those are more reliable indicators that he is thriving than growth charts.

It's entirely possible that the 9th centile is where he's supposed to be, genetically speaking. It sounds partly as though he has a classic "catch-down growth" pattern.

How many sides do you feed him from each feed?

My DS fed just like this at that age, and would sometimes feed for hours at a time still (although nothing like the 6+ hours with barely a break that we used to get for the first couple of months)

He also woke regularly in the night, and it was rare that he went 3 hours in the day.

I know that it's hard to let them feed for that long, but the best thing you can do to increase your supply is to feed, feed, feed - a pump can't get those hormones flowing like a baby!

I can't comment on whether his wait gain is ok, but perhaps he's meant to be on the 9th centile?

If it helps, DS's feeding improved at around 6 months - he seemed to get more efficient and fed much more quickly, and went longer between feeds. He now (at 11mo) takes around 15 minutes for a full feed, but even when he's taking plenty of solids, he still feeds between 4 and 6 times a day.

I hope this helps, and that someone else will be along with some more useful advice!

thanks for the responses. I usually feed him on both sides during a feed. Sometimes I try one side per feed - then i feel like i have more to offer when the other side fills up.

The latch was a big issue for the first 10 weeks or so - it was really hellish but we came out the other side and now he latches fine.

maybe he is meant to be a little one but DH is quite tall (6 feet) and all the men on my side are around the same. I am 5'5. DS hasn't been measured since 6 weeks but at the time he was in proportion.

i guess i need to keep the faith. chrismummiaow - thanks for saying things can change. i think i forgot that! (after our initial difficulty - things changed so much for the better.)

but while i understand that it can be perfectly normal for BF babies to feed frequently and for long, no matter their age, I still just have the strong feeling that he is always in a mild state of hunger that is not really getting satisfied.

hmm...

it's really had when you begin to doubt yourself isn't it?
my friend was like that, and no matter how much we all (including 2 different bfc's) told her everything was ok, and her ds was fine she just didn't trust her body any longer and she found it really difficult.

it's hard to sit back and think "yeah it'll be ok" when really you're worried that you aren't feeding them enough.

why not stick with it, and make a date for maybe 2 or 3 months time to get him weighed again? that way you are giving him plenty of time to put weight on, and you can see if he is sticking to that centile or not. gaining weight slowly is ok.

I don't think you should limit it to one side in the hope that the other side will be fuller for the next feed- that doesn't sound right. I think you should aim to get him to empty both breasts as much as possible at every opportunity, then your breasts should catch up and produce more.

Honestly- centile schmentile- I HATE those bloody charts!! THe best bf experience I had was with ds (my 3rd), when I never saw a hV or MW after week 3, and had no clue of his weight or his bloody head circumference. My gut instinct told me he was ok. He was feeding lots, sometimes crying in between, producing wet and soiled nappies. Things do change with babies this young all the time.

Fast forward a year, and I'm worried he's too chubby! Some babies do seem to want to fed a lot, and sometimes it's just that they want to suck- that's the only thing they vreally have to do at this stage! If I was you I'd try to relax, get a nice long DVD/ box set and a big glass of water, a comfy seat and a decent pillow; assign all housework etc to your other half, and FEED whenever and for how long. (I will nOT mention "growth spurt", as every time this happened to me and I moaned at DH he said "Oh, it's probably a growth spurt," and went back to his newspaper- aaargh!)

If you want to build up your supply then you're better to offer side A, then side B, then side A again, then side B again. Extra stimulation equates to extra production. One-sided feeding can work for many people under many circumstances, but is less likely to be a good idea if there are any concerns about supply.

Definitely do at least two sides per feed. Your body makes milk in response to it being removed from the breast, so the more is removed, the more will be made. Breasts never really empty and you don't need to let them fill up.
My DS was born on the 75th centile and quickly dropped to the 9th where he remained til I had him weighed at 25 weeks and he was just up under the 25th. He's now at 30 weeks, up to the 50th, and I fully expect him to drop down again when he starts crawling. No baby follows a smooth line. Also remember that the 9th centile is well within the bounds of a healthy weight.
It is hard work when it's like this, I know, but it does change and it's so worth it.

i do both sides at least 90% of the time - just saying that there are times when i do one side for whatever reason and it seems to work out well for the next feed.

We also do super switch feeding sometimes too - honestly, i have tried everything on kellymom, dr jack newman, etc.

the bottom line is i am pretty confident that he is doing well, but think he could be doing even better. It just doesn't feel nice for him to seem hungry after long feeds.

I do think I am just not much of a lactator (word??).

Really, if you think he's thriving when he's not being weighed then he probably is. But if you are concerned then try switch feeding consistently at every feed for, say, two weeks.

It could also be worth seeing a bf counsellor in person to check your latch, just in case he's not removing milk from your breast as effectively as he might do (and hence not stimulating your supply as much as he might).

thanks. I think the latch is sorted but maybe it's worth another look.

Wonder if it's relevant that he can go three or four days without a poo? Plenty of wet nappies though.

chadellina - your baby's growth sounds normal, your baby's feeding sounds normal, his behaviour sounds normal, your breastfeeding sounds normal. He is not taking a long time, and if he wants to stay there for 75 mins and you are not due anywhere else that would be fine too

Nothing you have said sounds in any way concerning....except your confidence in the process

Maybe meeting other mothers who are bf will give you a boost??

Oh, and his poo freqency is normal, too

Chandellina - my DS (also 4.5 months) feeds in a really similar way to yours - if I let him stay on the boob until he wants to stop (which I do fairly frequently), he'll stay on guzzling away for hours. Literally hours - this evening he fed from 8pm till 9.30pm, fell asleep for a bit, woke up and fed again until 11pm.

While sleep for me at night isn't such an issue, I do find feeding him lying down is great - means I can have a doze while he's filling his boots! If sleep is an issue for you might that help?

Like your DS he's dropped through the centiles a bit (from 91st down to just below 50th) but he's happy, he's not losing weight, and if he wants to make me put my feet up for 2 hours at a time, I'll quite happily let him

Please don't feel that he's not thriving because he's not following some line on a chart - it's not a bad thing to be on the 9th percentile, it may just be where he's supposed to be.

i can accept that it is all normal, but it is rough going for the mother when baby wants to feed all the time. In turn I am always exhausted, and get extremely stressed out when we go out about where I will be when I need to feed him next.

I have started lying down for early morning feeds, since this is when I am most tired. Unfortunately I can't even follow the old advice of sleeping when he does - because he is a rare napper, and usually only will take a quick catnap when we are out and about.

chandellina, one way to reduce the stress could be to stress less about where to feed your baby....getting used to feeding him anywhere and everywhere means you won't have this anxiety about where you will be. What do you think?

Can you co-sleep at night?

DS feeds a lot, at least once in the night and 8-10 times during the day at the moment. I feed him everywhere and anywhere. I can't stress what a relief it was when I overcame my nerves about feeding in public, it felt like I was released. If DS is hungry I just sit down and feed him wherever I am.
What is it about feeding him outside home that gets you upset?

Should have said, DS is not quite 5 months so very similar age to your DS.

It really is rough going, but it doesn't last forever. I know it's hard to imagine when you're in the middle of it, but it will get better. I spent a long time averaging five hours sleep and there were a couple of weeks when I was pleased if I got four hours sleep in total, but it got better.

He sounds a lot like my ds (15wks). He will sometimes feed indefinitely but I stop him after an hour and then give him a top up bottle feeds of about 2/3 ozs as advised by my hospital's infant feeding team (who are very pro bf). Ideally this should be ebm. I was told that if a baby takes a very long time to feed then they aren't feeding efficiently. I am finding now that ds is learning to feed a bit quicker and does refuse some top ups esp 1st feed of the day when my supply is greatest. He won't go longer than 3 hours in between daytime feeds.
Even if you do choose to go back to supplementing with formula at least he will still be getting all the benefits of breast milk. Even though I do try to demand feed as much as possible compromise is sometimes necessary; I can't very well leave my 4yo dd at the school gates just because ds wants to feed for 90 minutes

gkmum - "I was told that if a baby takes a very long time to feed then they aren't feeding efficiently."

This can be true but it is not always true....and the OP's baby is not taking a 'very long time' to feed. 25-45 minutes is normal

It sounds to me as if you are doing a great job. I have 6 kids. We took DS1 to be weighed weekly when he was a baby. We never took the others at all! They all seem to have grown perfectly well anyway! I would seriously say trust your instincts and not the charts! It does sound as if he is feeding a fairly average ammount for a 4 1/2 month old. My jast DD used to feed at least every 2 hours day and night. She also loved to comfort suck, and would have stayed latched on for 24 hours solid if I'd let her!He will gradually go longer between feeds, and you will eventually get more sleep. I know how hard it is when you are in the middle of it, but keep telling yourself it will pass. When you look back it will seem like such a short time - honestly! 41/2 months is still SO little. I would say hang in there, trust yourself and your body - you don't have to get him weighed you know. You sound as if you would really regret it if you gave up now.
Of course if you do switch to formula, your DS will be totally fine, and if it is what you need to do to make you all happy, then you should do it with no guilt, you have given him a brilliant atsrt. But just be sure before you go down that route!
(oh and my 2nd daughter used to only poo once a week and she was formula fed so that could just be totally normal for him too!!)