I feel like everyone has lost faith in my breastfeeding, even me

[IwishIwasaStockingStuffer]

I'm feeling very alone and sad about this.

DD is 16 weeks and I have a DS 16 months, I breastfed DS til he was 8 months when I stopped as I had awful morning sickness.

I've breastfed DD exclusively up til now, but she hasn't been putting on enough weight and now only 2ozs in a fortnight, I was ok with her slow gain and felt very confident I was doing the right thing by coninuing to feed her.

The HV and GP are wanting to weigh her every week which I think is too much.

She is contented and happy, always smiling and engaging with us and she sleeps through.

The GP has now phoned me at home and has summoned DP and I to the surgery tommorrow afternoon to discuss our options. She says I have to take DP so he has taken time off work.

DP and I had such a huge argument about it all, he has always been supportive of me breastfeeding until now, that I went out and bought formula and I'm now giving her 1-2 bottles a day.

Everyone is at me about it, now my Mum has started and I just feel like giving up and putting DD completely on formual even though I feel strongly that exclusive breastfeeding the right thing for her.

I'm so confused and upset.

Habbibu - I don't know! Problem is, often GPs and HVs really don't know about breastfeeding and supporting it and these boards serve a useful function in reminding users of that fact!

I have found bf and parenthood goes a lot better if you don't get children weighed at clinics, but judge it all by whether they are roughly in the right clothes size for their age and growing out of things in a timely fashion.

I think baby clinics are fuller of more old wives' tales about infant nutrition than anywhere else, and the first port of call ought to be an organisation that specialises in bf, or a bf counsellor.

So I would not respond to a GP or HV summons, but go to one of these organisations instead, and make it clear what I was doing.

Hmmmm.....but VBM, breastfeeding counsellors are not trained to sort out medical issues, and have to refer to the doc or HV. If the OP had phoned me (as a breastfeeding counsellor) I would have said more or less what I said in my post. We (bfcs) cannot make a medical assessment. If I think there really might be a problem with a baby's growth, I have to say to the mother that her HV should be involved. I can't force her to go to one, though, of course.

And probably most people are not able to get specialist breastfeeding support, because provision is very patchy.

To clarify: I'd say to the mum 'what does your HV say about your baby's weight?' and 'is this something you can discuss more with her?'

Given that we don;t tell mothers what they 'should' do

We have seen 3 different HV's, only 1 time each as our own has been off sick for a year. This means DD is weighed on different scales each time.

I do have PND which is what they think the problem is, the PND (its mild PND) is causing me to produce poor quality milk.

This has all just affected my confidence so much, and although I feel breastfeeding is the best choice I feel backed into a corner and seem to have no choice but to give up and put DD on formula.

I just feel sad about it.

OP, I am not surprised you are feeling very isolated in all this. Whilst your HV and GP's concern is no doubt motivated by good intentions re your dd's welfare, from what you say it does not seem to take much consideration of your needs.

I would hesitate in this context to tell you not to worry, however perhaps you could use tomorrow's appointment to explore all the options available to your family - such as (for example) referral for additional breastfeeding support or referral to a paediatrician/dietician. It might be worth discussing in advance with your DP what will be discussed and what questions you might want to ask (and have answered). For example, if it has not been discussed before, you could raise the point you have made regarding your belief that your dd's weight may have been miscalculated at birth? With your DP's support, it may be easier to ask questions about what options other than top-ups of formula that they think you might consider.

(I'd stress, I am not specifying here what I think you should or should not ask.)

lizzytee - I think your post has some great points in it. Stocking's needs have not been addressed at all, from what she says.

Stocking - PND cannot affect milk quality. This is not possible and there is no evidence that it does. Has someone really and truly said this bit of nonsense to you? I am shocked.

There might possibly be a case for supporting you to deliberately feed your baby more often - you have mild PND so it prob will not apply, but mums with serious PND can find it harder to relate to their babies and to work out how to feed them responsively. That's the only possible connection I can think of....and that is zero to do with quality of milk.

PND cannot cause you to produce poor quality milk. Your milk is perfect for your baby.

As tiktok said there is lots of scope to introduce further BFs - it may take a few days to increase your supply. If she wakes for a night feed she needs a night feed, don't be told otherwise!

She will probably gain faster once she ups her intake of milk.

tiktok, I agree in principle, but you know as well as I do how spurious some of the 'medical' advice can be, failing to take into account different times of day for weighing, different scales, different feeding techniques, the race of the babies, and so on. I am very worried they are putting so much pressure on her to come in and making her feel as though she has done something wrong.

The points you have noted are all things that you can consider bringing into your appointment - ie you have not had continuity in the carers you have seen.

also at the statement that PND might cause your milk to be of "poor quality". This is a very undermining thing to say to any mother, and it is worth remembering that a) most research has shown that women with very poor nutritional status still produce nutritionally adequate milk for their babies and
b) there are a number of things that can be at the root of slow weight gain. The nutritional quality of a woman's milk is rarely the primary cause.

2 of the HV's and the CPN from the PND service have all said the same.

I am one of those Mum's who feeds as soon as the baby cries or when she wakes from a nap so I really don't think I'm missing feeds.

Its funny because the past couple of days she has fed more and 'feels heavier', when I pick her up she seems chubbier.

Can anything else affect my milk quality?

I'm honestly not that depressed, I am feeling worse though since this started, because its me feeding her it all feels like a personal attack on me and like I'm failing DD.

Will stopping breastfeeding now affect DD negatively?

Sorry for the questions, I'm trying to clarify in my head.

I agree, VBM....sounds like pressure indeed

But we can't tell at this remove if there are any medical concerns or not.

That was my concern.

I would also add that when this sort of thing happens, there is a case for cossetting the mum for a week and encouraging her to eat and drink particularly well, as well as resting and feeding a lot, rather than making her chase around clinics feeling worried. I bet a week of that would get mum and baby on track again.

Stocking, the HVs and the CPN are wrong about PND and milk quality. If you feel brave enough, ask them where they have their info from. Your dh is a medic - he can ask them and tell them they are talking bollocks! Believe me - milk quality is unaffected by the mental or emotional state of the mother. The human body does not work like that. Fortunately!

Milk quality is pretty constant ie constantly high, no matter what the mother's diet, outlook, favourite TV programme, relationship issues, holiday plans....whatever

5-6 feeds a day is less than most babies of her age are having - just offer more and see if she will have 'em

You may be right about the weight discrepancies and the birthweight. You can also check they have done their imperial/metric conversion correctly. Mistakes in all these areas are not uncommon. Crackers, eh? And mothers worry like crazy because some idiot person has done the maths wrongly

Would agree with you about mum's needs, VM (except eating and resting and drinking fluids are irrelevant!!). Mums need TLC and encouragement to feed more, though, true enough

Stocking, you ask if stopping bf would affect your dd negatively.

Yes, it would. That's the honest answer. Breastfeeding excl for 6 mths shows the best health outcomes. Formula is not as good. 16 weeks of bf is more than most babies get in the UK, of course, and is a Good Thing. But continuing without formula is a Better Thing

Thanks everyone, I'm glad to have people to talk to objectively.

We are taking DD to the Dr's tomorrow to rule out any medical problems.

I'm just exhausted and stressed, a little baby and a toddler are tiring and I never seem to have enough time to get anything done, I am organised when it comes to the children but a bit scatty about myslef, sometimes its 11am before I get anything to eat or drink.

And why does the HV have to come at 9am??? And the Docs always give me an appointment for 10am.

I need to be more organised. When the HV walked into our living room the other day DS was standing on the coffee table he wasn't standing there when I went to answer the door.

Loath as I am to discourage a medical appointment, because I am down there every five minutes myself, and I am not a medical doctor, I do think in this case stress and tiredness have the potential to affect the quantity of milk production. But it will not affect the quality of your milk - only drugs would be able to do that. If people are telling you otherwise then they are wrong (as all the other posters are saying).

If I was a relative of yours I would say that the best thing you can do for yourself, if you are otherwise happy about the baby (and you know your baby best of all) is to look after yourself physically and get your feet up. Put off the appointment a few days and give yourself a break from worrying. See what happens and maybe go back between Xmas and NY (a cynical part of me is wondering if they want to get you 'sorted out' by Xmas in some way, which would account for the apparent panic).

Anyway you have had two thoughtful but slightly different posts from me and tiktok, one pro the appointment and one against, so I reckon a chat to DP about what your instincts tell you is the right course of action will be the best thing.

I would add I would be advising you differently if this was your first bf baby, by the way.

VBM - again fortunately, stress and tiredness have little impact on quantity. Except if you are resting and not rushing around you have more chance to bf which is what will increase quantity

x posts

But do please stop beating yourself up. Tiktok is right about mad people getting the maths wrong and so on. No person with young children looks good when the HV comes around, btw.

Try to get DP to bring your brekkie in bed for a few days to help you get morale up. Again, tiktok is right about the fact that eating and drinking doesn't necessarily relate to milk production, but it sure as hell stops you feeling tired and miserable.

BTW also if you don't want the HV to come at 9am, tell her to come in the afternoon. Same with the doc, tell them when you are free! If they are really worried they will fit around you or even come out to see you.

Thank you very much Tiktok and VBM, you have given me a lot to mull over and you have given straight up impartial advice.

The HV and GP keep talking about how they would be negligent if they didn't do all this, which is true but not helpful when its experienced advice I'm needing. They just keep weighing her without talking to me or suggesting anything other than formula.

Stocking, I will probably end up cross-posting but here goes:
WHO research suggests that unless a mother eats a diet that is consistently very deficient in certain (not all) nutrients, the nutritional value of her milk is remarkably consistent. The reasons why and the mechanisms by which this happens are not fully understood.

I also understand that historically, a lot of nutritional analysis of human milk compared it to cows milk. Which would make sense if you were assessing the suitability of human milk for calves - but you are not.

Unfortunately just because 3 different people have said it does not mean they are right. It may be, as tiktok has said, that they have confused some of the symptoms of severe PND - ie having difficulty responding to your baby. I am not surprised in the least that you feel personally attacked. Again (and again perhaps with your DP's support) you might want to bring this point into your appointment. Your needs are not trivial and certainly not if you are vulnerable yourself.

They'd be a lot less negligent if they sent over a home help, or a specialist bf counsellor, but mums no longer get that sort of support, just criticism.

I've bf 3 babies and I know it can be tiring, but if you have fed your first for 8 months this puts you into the UK supermother category so you can afford to be more confident in my view.

BTW I have assumed in all this that the nappies look as they should as there is no digestive issue??

Definitely no problems with nappies! Lots of soaking nappies and at least 1 dirty nappy a day.

For a couple of weeks she was a bit fussy, finding it difficult to latch and being very windy but that seems to have settled again.

Can I ask something else? Does coffee affect breast milk? I have been having about 3 cups a day and wondered if that might be it?