Seriously considering FF

[kayzr]

I am seriously considering FF. I am struggling with BF and feeling pretty down about it.

I find it hard to get DS2(5 days old) to latch on, he just pushes my breast away with his hand. It takes about 10 minutes to get him on. Once he is on he is usually ok but sometimes just falls asleep after a few minutes.

My breasts especially the left one feel very hard, painful and boiling hot. The right one isn't as bad but its still very uncomfortable.

He has been feeding for up to an hour on one breast but today MW said to take him off after a 15-20 minutes and put him on the other side. But whenever I try that he hardly ever latches on again.

I feel like I am banging my head against a brick wall and feel terrible.

Thanks for 'listening'.

Well there goes the good day!

MW has said I have to top him up with formula. She made DH go to the shop to get some formula so she could feed him it.

I have to BF him for 30 minutes and then give him 2oz of formula. She said that once his weight picks up we can withdraw the formula but I am worried about him not latching on.

He put 1oz on so they are still worried about his weight.

I am not going to stop BF, not in a million years. I am going to give him his top ups of formula until he has put some more weight on.

MW reckons my milk still isn't in properly as he isn't getting any hind milk at all and my milk looks watery.

She is coming back tomorrow to see how we got on with the FF. She says he sucks the bottle like a Bfeeder. Whatever that means though!!

I am determined to continue BF. I wish I was strong enough to tell her I am not giving him formula but I'm not.

Only quick post as I am meant to be helping DS1 find the 2 pieces of jigsaw he has lost!!

Kayzr - I am confused. Your baby is aged a week. He is gaining weight. His initial weight loss is within comfortable normal limits. I still don't know what she is worried about, I really don't, but she is there, looking at your ds, and maybe there is something concerning about what she sees...

No one should judge a mum's milk by looking at it! It may well look watery - that's what normal breastmilk can look like. The amount of water in the milk is related to the volume of milk in the breasts. More milk = more water. Less milk = more fat.

If she has told you to top up at every feed, then I am confused about that. This will give your ds a lot of formula and make feeds less frequent. This is undermining to bf.

But as I say - she is there, and has seen your ds, so .....

tiktok you are being very circumspect....and restrained Without trying to upset Kayz I would be seriously concerned about ANY midwife using the kind of language and phrases Kayz describes. It suggests (to me) that she may be lacking in basic knowledge about b'fing and have issues with it. Kayz I wonder are there any m/ws on your local team who have advanced training (eg to lactation consultant level). Could you speak to the team leader and explain you are being given very conflicting advice by different mws?

I know one of the main problems you are having is being told different things by different people each day. Grrr that we are not allocated a single b'f supporter at the outset.

kayzr - as i said, listen to Tiktok she really knows her stuff unlike your MW

Its also to do with him have greeny coloured poo that is very watery.

I don't know why his weight is such a huge concern for them but it is. Apparently he should have put more than 1oz on in 48 hours.

I'm just telling you what they have said to me.

Kayzr - as said below, ds lost more than that in 1st week and no one was concerned... But they were looking at me and ds - we're all different... Can you find someone that is expert in bf locally who can give you a 2nd opinion? Its really difficult for anyone to be able to advise you without seeing both of you...

My milk looked watery sometimes - and it looked thick sometimes - I think ds probably got a mixture of both during the day etc.

I'm hoping that you get this sorted out, and are able to just bf as you so clearly want to.

I'm no expert, but I have to agree with Turniphead that any MW who recommends 'topping up' with formula is basically undermining all the time you are putting into stimulating your milk supply. Your son is gaining weight, albeit at a slower rate than that expected by your midwife. But what information is she using? Is it based on BF babies? Surely an average weight gain implies that some babies will gain more slowly, others more quickly anyway. All I know is that both my DSs lost a good deal of weight in the first week (more than 10%), but that once the weight loss had plateaued (as it has with yours - he has gained an ounce now, hasn't he?), they then started to gain at each weigh-in.

Please don't let the MW undermine your confidence in BFing in general, nor in your own ability to feed your child. I think she is well out of order to frog-march your DH out to the shops to buy formula.

Similarly, don't beat yourself up over the fact that you've given your baby some formula. However, if I were you, and my confidence had been shaken, I would insist that the MW come back daily with her scales, so that I could continue to BF and have some more quantifiable evidence of the weightgain.

In the meantime, make sure you are eating plenty and getting your feet up, that will also give your milk supply a chance to build up. Also, you could offer both breasts and then back to the "third side" to boost your supply.

How is your right breast, by the way? You said it was uncomfortable a few days ago. Hope that is better.

i thought all milk looked watery to start with and it becomes creamier as the feed goes on. DS2 also lost weight in his 1st week but my MW said that it was within the normal limits and he was feeding fine. he also had green poo with is normal and i was told that i was switching boobs too soon so he was only having the thirst quenching fore milk and not the fatty hind milk

God your MW sounds AWFUL! I can't speak from any experience (DS was FF after 10 days due to damage to his jaw in birth affecting his latch), but the advice here seems amazing compared to that shit the MW is telling you. Please continue as you are, you are doing an amazing job. Big hug {{{hug}}}

NappyXmas, Its fine now thanks. I got some cabbage and it seems to have sorted itself out.

I've seen 4 MW's in the week he has been here and everyone has different things to say.

My normal mw is back from holiday this weekend so I should see her on Monday, I'm hoping she'll be more help.

I think what tiktok says regarding the MW being able to see your DS etc is fair comment but I also think you really should make the time to phone one of the helplines and get someone trained specifically in BFing to advise you. There's growing evidence here that your MW may be a bit of a loon so at least by discussing your case with a counsellor you can be reassured whether she's right or wrong to be making these suggestions.

Or you could take Turniphead's excellent advice and try to get hold of someone locally.

Please don't be hesitant about doing that - if she's screwing up, you will have a chance to turn it around. If she's doing the right thing then you will have some much needed reassurance.

Oh, please don't supplement. Your baby doesn't need it, you're doing a great job. Giving bottles won't help him latch on directly.

How's it going?

Not too bad. I'm giving him the formula top ups for now. He is still latching on ok so I don't think the bottles are confusing him.

The MW said yesterday that my milk is watery. I expressed earlier and it is very watery. It is like if you were to mix a little bit of milk with water. Is this really bad or is there anything I can do/take to make it less watery and more milky?

BM always looks like that - mine was almost blue, and I fed a baby who was on the 99.8th percentile exclusively for 6 months, and continued until he was 2. You really can't tell the composition of someones bm by looking at it.

The only thing that affects the composition of your breastmilk is the length of time between feeds - the shorter the interval between feeds, the fattier the milk in the breast is.

And as there is no such thing as foremilk and hindmilk (its all the same milk, just slightly less fatty at the beginning of a feed as the fat tends to stick to the milk ducts and the liquid moves instantly), that really shows the poor understanding of bf that this midwife has

kayzr - normal breastmilk is watery. There's nothing wrong with your milk, you don't need to take anything for it, or do anything for it.

It looks kind of thin and almost bluish, and if you leave it then sometimes a little layer of thick creamy stuff settles at the top. Normal. And I expressed for a long time so I know, I promise!

It is a real shame your MW has made you doubt your milk because it's "too watery". There's no such thing.

Crossposts cmot - see kayzr, it really is normally blue!

IAte, how you described it is exactly how it looks. Its like cloudly water with what looks like cream sort of floating in it. MW also said it should be a creamy colour though and mine is white. Honestly that woman does my head in.

God knows what she is on. I expressed 5 days a week for a year, so I saw a lot of expressed milk in that time. Only time it looked creamy was in the first few days of colostrum - and I was expressing that in SCBU, so saw the change at first hand

I really think tiktok has a good point that we are trying to help you here and are at risk of just confusing you, but your MW doesn't know what she's on about, seriously.

You know they really don't get a lot of training on BFing?

I think the important issue here, kayzr, is thet you are the mum, not your MW, and it's up to you what you give your child.

If you doubt her ability to advise you well then it is really important that you get advice from a more reliable source. BFing lines have been listed here already - some open until 10.30pm

She doesn't have kids either. So she has no first hand experience. I asked her today if I could express and give him that instead but she said it wouldn't really help.

Its such a shame I had DS2 just as my normal MW was going on holiday for a week. She knows how much I struggled with DS1 and how much I wanted to BF DS2. The MW I have been seeing rang my normal mw today and told her about the situation so when she comes back Monday she knows.

I am really hoping that when I see normal mw she will be a lot more helpful.

He is being weighed again tomorrow and I am hoping he has put weight on.

I really hope she doesn't give you more to worry about unnecessarily. Personally I think expressing would surely help because it's far more likely to stimulate milk supply (if that's even a genuine concern) - or of course you could just feed your baby! But [disclaimer] I am not a qualified counsellor.

He does seem to feed quite well, well I think he does. I just hope that we can get back to just BF.