Weaning breastfed toddlers with another baby in the house - how???? (LONG)

[whomovedmychocolate]

DD is a milk monster - she's two, she would happily feed all day every day and has three feeds a day at least. She constantly follows me round saying 'booby, booby' (which is better than two months ago when she used to say 'norks, norks' (I blame you lot for that!)) but it's a marginal difference.

I'm starting to really resent it because DS is also a milk monster (he's nearly four months and off the weight charts) and I'm exhausted with making so much milk. I'm actually continually eating and not gaining any weight, I'm constantly thirsty and hungry and my boobs are so heavy they ache all the time because I'm carrying so much milk round with me.

Not to mention my 32K bras which are more like structural engineering than lingerie!

Anyway I'd like to reduce DDs milk consumption down to two feeds a day and then gradually drop to one a day, with a view to either her naturally weaning, or me weaning her, within the next three months. I feel horribly guilty doing this but I also reckon I've done much more than most mums do and I'm entitled to want my tits back at some point!

I'm not planning to wean DS so she is going to be horribly jealous - she already thinks that every time he gets milk, she is getting it too . So I need advice on how to do it.

My problems are:

(1) She normally feeds before naps at lunchtime - DH has offered to take her out in the car to knock her out but I think that's just replacing one undesirable habit with another. I have managed to get her to take a nap twice without milk. But he has never managed it.

(2) In the morning her first thought is of milk. She does the mummy mantra of calling me continually till I turn up and then she just says booby continually at ascending volume (which wakes the baby so I have to feed both at once often which is bloody frustrating not to mention a feat in itself because they are not tiny).

(3) She's still preferring milk over food and will miss meals and then try and make it up with breastmilk. So I end up limiting the time she can spend feeding. But she feeds so fast it is actually quite uncomfortable - she seems to have devised a method where the milk shoots out at high volume and it's painful when it lets down so fast. But I don't think it's a latch issue - anyone experienced this?

I'm actually really sad that it's come to the point where I feel I have to restrict her. So any advice to make things easier would be appreciated.

i can't help, dearest, but wanted to say BLOODY WELL DONE! tricky, cutting down on one and not the other. i'm trying to get dd1 to give up her dummy, she's on her last one because when we go to the shops i point out that the ones in Boots have babies on them, so aren't for big girls.

would it be wrong to show her baby books with women bfing and say that they are babies and not big girls?

have you tried distracting her? just say "yes, in a minute X" and then get her interested in a dvd/toy or something? or go out?

the no-cry sleep solution book has some good ideas on getting them to sleep without needing to feed. I think there is a toddler version of the book that might be helpful?

I think maybe I would try and plan a REALLY busyt week. sounds horrible, esp with 2 kids. but I am thinking that if you can distract distract distract it may help??

I have no direct experience of this, but here are my best ideas. Good luck.

Buy her a fabulous beaker or cup that she might want to use.

Use sticker charts to give her a reward when she takes cowjuice from a cup rather than boobjuice. Offer rewards like special storytime with you, bubbles in the bath, balloons, etc.

Tell her clearly that she is now a big girl and is going to have her milk from a cup. Take her out with other kids her age who drink from beakers and point it out/praise them for being "big girls".

When you go into her in the morning, wear full body armour so that your boobs are inaccessible. Take in her water or cowjuice with you and offer her that. Perhaps have a really good picture book that she can look at with you whilst she drinks from the beaker.

I would agree that putting her down for a nap in the car is just another prop. I would try to fill her up with a good meal, make sure she's had plenty to drink and persevere with putting her down in her cot. She clearly won't have any real need for a feed at that time, so you know it is habit. If poss., take her out for a long walk/ swim or something that will tire her out in the morning so she is really physically tired. Maybe replace the boob nap ritual with something like a lightshow or a book.

Sounds like you're doing an amazing job, feeding 2 kids, but it must be hard going, and I think you are being perfectly reasonable wanting to knock these feeds on the head. Congratulations for giving them both a great start

Thanks for the suggestions all of you.

She loves cowmilk too! We have no worries about her drinking that - she has a pint of it a day in addition to breastmilk.

Stickercharts are already in use for potty training and it'd confuse things I think to try and use them for good eating.

We've been trying the big girl argument but unfortunately I'm not the only extended feeder she knows and there's another girl nearly her age and she (very perceptively I think) pointed out last week that 'X is a big girl and has booby' (who says BM doesn't affect intelligence ).

We generally do have a very busy week but I have to stop and feed DS anyway - he's only 14 weeks - I can't exactly wear a flack jacket and still be able to feed him while we are out.

Things were better when I was hospitalised for a month having DS - she had to go to bed without feeding (though she popped by the hospital twice a day for her boob fix). I did think maybe I could go away with DS for a couple of days but it's not really fair to her and would be really traumatic I think for both her, DS and DH if I did this - also I think it'd have to be a week before she got the message.

Oh and the HV keeps banging on about how my children are so big because I'm feeding them - yes DS is off the weight chart but he's also off the height chart

Aitch - btw the dummy I got for DS which he rejected and DD stole was stolen in the middle of the night by the same pesky fairies who ate all the chocolate buttons. But they left a new toy as 'payment' for the dummy so DD isn't too upset (honestly this worked!)

Perhaps father christmas will swop your LOs dummy for something nice next month? Very common that I hear - he likes dummies!

is it the 'human food' HV, is it, is it? oh she is my favourite and my best!

it's her birthday next month so my mother has (without actually discussing it with me i should say) told her that three-year-olds can't have dummies and she'll have to give it up in return for presents. my mother will not, i imagine, be there for the inevitable meltdown.

Nothing to add but I suspect I will have the same problem in a few months when DD1 or DS2 is born...so will watch with interest.

oh, and the annoying thing is that dd2 loves hers (she was given one for sucking in hosp) so there will be some lyig around for the foreseeable.

Aitch - sadly the 'human food' HV has retired. This is idealistic posh HV who used to work in inner city london suburb and has now retreated to poshchester rural location and is still trying to get to grips with the weirdness of the general populus round here .

llareggub - don't quit nursing one when you have just had another unless you like seeing your newborn being whacked on the head with various heavy toys! Seriously, tandem feeding if the dogs wotsits for reducing the envy during the first weeks and it's great for that but after a few months you just get so knackered!

Good grief!
Stop feeling guilty! Your 2 year old doesn't need your milk any more - your 4 month old does.
At present you aren't helping anyone. You're knackered and the little one is being woken by the 2 year old.
I guess cut out one feed at a time. Starting with the morning one as you don't need that to send her to sleep. Just give her milk from a cup, be firm and NEVER back down. Give a choice - milk from cup before you go down for breakfast or nothing.
At lunch give her something yummy and if she doesn't eat it, no problem, but don't give her booby, she'll just be hungrier at dinner so make sure you have something yummy then too!
I stopped feeding my 18 month old a couple of weeks ago. She eats a good balanced diet so doesn't need my milk. She was only getting boob first thing in the morning and last thing at night and wasn't really bothered when I stopped as it was gradual.
No child will starve themselves and in your situation your daughter doesn't need to eat normal food as she can get it from you. Once you stop her feeds she WILL eat or she'll go hungry. Be strong as it is for her own good (and yours and definitely the new baby's!).
I'm a childminder and I get all my minded charges off to sleep on walks as that is how my day works - we do school run and go to groups each morning so it works out well this way. Why not plan a walk after lunch to do the shopping, get fresh air and she'll go to sleep if she's tired.
Can you fix your baby's feeds so she is distracted at those times? Can you feed discretely so she doesn't notice? Flash her favourite food source and of course she'll be miffed.
Good luck!

erk.

I wasn't intending to quit, more wondering how we'll manage!

DS is 2 and likes to feed first thing in the morning and then whenever he sees my norks. People are really starting to wind me up by telling me I really need to stop before this baby comes.

Part of me would like to stop when he decides to stop, but I am a little bit worried about him pushing the baby out to get to "his boats" (boat being his word for my norks, how knows why)

Crikey. You've done marvellously , I think.

I have no tips but I just wanted to give you some sympathy and say you're doing amazingly. I have a 16 month old DD who is obsessed - and I meant totally obsessed -with booby. Some days I lose count of how many times she feeds (most days actually ).

I think it is hard for other people whose children aren?t obsessed to understand what it is like when your child is utterly entranced with booby, so it can feel quite isolating. My DD is delighted at the mere sight of my bosoms, laughs with joy at the start of a feed and gets seriously distressed when she can't have any. She would eschew food ALL the time in favour of booby if I let her. Conversely, my sister's DS (17 months) is still feeding but loves solids and is a happy '2 feeds a day' little boy (how does that happen?). My sister simply does not get it and thinks I am being weak.

Also, like you, I cannot get her to sleep without a feed unless she is in the buggy (although DP can).

Anyway, the point of my post is just to let you know that whilst I am not in the same situation with a new baby (hats off to you), I DO understand how hard it is with a child who is breast milk obsessed. As other people have mentioned, try distraction - chocolate often works for me. I admit it is bad, but sometimes I have no choice when I am somewhere/with someone where I simply can't feed her. Also, as charmargot says, try walks and see if you can get her to sleep in the buggy.

I am pretty exhausted by the amount my DD feeds, so you must be totally shattered. You are doing an amazing job. You should be very proud but hope you can sort it out so that your life is a little easier. I find that some days I feel totally ?touched out? and you must be feeling that to the limit, so I don?t blame you for feeling resentful at times, I know I would.

Good luck!

Balthamos - ah I remember that feeling when dd was the same age as yours - that she'd never do anything other than feed.

Tis much worse when they are two. We do try distraction but she simply says thanks for the button, eats it then says 'booby now' and repeated feeding of buttons just results in me getting chocolatey nipples as she attempts to latch on while shovelling in buttons .

Also we've had to stop chocolate because she's getting quite round with all the breastmilk (amazing how much weight they can gain on breastmilk - these women who say they don't have enough milk to sustain their 50th centile babies should take a look at my not-so-little rabble

In some senses potty training has helped as she gets one on one attention and she loves that and for that time she's not thinking about milk.

WMMC - lots of sympathy from me as I have a similar-ish senario - 2-year-old booby monster and expecting DC#2 in the next few weeks. I'd really like her to wean but my attempts to limit how much she feeds are often met with distress from her, so it's obviously very important to her. She also feeds to sleep for her nap, but somehow happily naps at her childminder's with no props . I've decided not to stress about the naptime feed on the grounds that eventually she will stop having a daytime nap so that problem will resolve itself. Sorry not to have any suggestions! will continue to watch this thread with interest.

dramasequalzero -Well we are on day one of morning and evening only. We've had a few tears but not as many as I'd expected and she's now asleep. She didn't start to have a daytime nap till she was 18 months old so it may last a while in her case! (Hope so anyway).

Update on the plan:
Five days on just morning and night then seeing if we can drop the morning nap - TBH I might be happy to carry on with just two a day.

Anyway, I have run her ragged at baby bounce for three hours this morning, and then taken her walking round charity shops inspecting their stuff for 'shinies' (she's started asking for jewellery but can currently be fobbed off with horrible garish fashion stuff from the charity shops for 50p a time).

She then crashed out in the car on the way home, clutching her prize and didn't wake up when I picked her up and put her in her bed. She's still got her coat and boots on!

DS has been a little star as well - he doesn't seem to be too hungry today so that's made it easier. I think tomorrow might be harder once she works out what's going on But we can but try.

Hi WMMC. Congrats on the Tandem Feeding. Would love to extend feeding, but DS seems to be self-weaning and supply dwindling :-(
Anyway, I have no idea what I am talking about, since I do not have a two year old, but: could you talk to her and explain to her what's going on? Maybe say you need the milk for the baby, since he can't have any solid food yet and she can only have it twice a day otherwise you are to tired? I am sure DS understands on some level, when I explain, why soemthing's impossible. Good luck - sounds you have a plan.

Hi WMMC
Sounds like you are feeling a bit more in control of it all today.

Was thinking about your situation after I posted, and have read your OP again.

Re. the fast let down/her guzzling to make up for missed food, could you get her to feed, then pull her off whilst you have the let down (into a muslin or a bottle for DS), so that she has to work harder for any milk she does get? I have no idea if that would work, but just a thought.

Also, first thing in the morning, could your DP get her up with a beaker of cow's milk and then park her in front of a TV programme just until she has forgotten about your boobs? (Hate to push telly first thing in the morning, but it's a good distractor).

One of the books I had for DS1 was called "My New Baby" - it'a a picture book and clearly shows the eldest having a beaker whilst the baby is latched in the breast. Perhaps you could get a copy to reinforce the message?

Also, I was going to say that perhaps working on dropping the feeds one at a time would make it all feel more achievable. Once you have knocked the pre-nap boob on the head, you can tackle the morning & evening ones if you want too.

Balthamos - had to laugh at your description of your toddler's love for your breasts! Sounds like you have a real bond with her. Has made me think though when I will wean DS2. DS1 weaned himself about 11.5mths, but the latest addition doesn't seem to show any loss of interest in all things breastical He's still having 4 or 5 feeds a day (at 10mths), but I have very modest storage facilities and think he can't actually be getting that much out of them, more of a comfort thing. However, despite the health advantages of feeding into the second year, I can see it would make it more difficult to wean him once he can chase me round and help himself to a snack...

Glimmer - we do talk about it but as she points out 'more booby, more milk' ie when I feed her more milk keeps coming and I never run out. I will ask her ask she's feeding, is it all gone, and she says 'nope' slurp, slurp slurp

Smellen we have that book and it was great for when the baby came home but she's not going to fall for that because she just says 'me baby now not olly'. (don't you just love toddler logic)?

I do already feed DS first on the side she's going to have so there is less (but frankly it's marginal because they are trained to produce more than enough for both of them and he conks out before he's taken more than about a quarter out!

Actually today has been okay. She had a tissy at teatime when told she had to wait for bedtime but mostly she was okay. So fingers crossed.

Like I said, I don't have direct experience of this, but it sounds like you are just going to have to brazen out the tantrums and stick to your guns. From an outsider's perspective (without the hormonally charged emotions that are involved) this is another type of toddler behaviour that you have to take control of if you want to change it. (I don't mean to simplify it or sound like it's "your fault" or anything like that, because I know from recent experience trying to drop night feeds that that is bloody difficult to stick to your guns when your kid is crying and you know that just one boob will sort it all out )

I'd just try and find a time when you had the full support of your DP and were feeling up to it yourself. It might take a week or so. Have you got any holiday time planned in the near future? Sometimes a change of scene can help break a cycle of behaviour.

DH is backing me 100% and when she had a tissy I went to make dinner and he distracted her. It's going to be fine I think. She's actually a fab little monkey 99% of the time, rarely has a tissy and the ones she does are hugely entertaining (for me at least)

Well, good luck with it. You sound like a lovely family, and you are clearly doing your best to give your LOs a great start. Hope things work out for you.

Oh how difficult for you! Your descriptions of toddler logic are v funny - and horribly recognisable...
Is the LLL book How Weaning Happens any help? I've seen it recommended here (not read it myself).
Good luck with The Plan - hope it works out! And thanks for sharing your experience; it is really helpful for someone like me who is still trying to work out whether I'm going to be tandem nursing (16w pregnant, and with a DS who has always loved 'his' breast)

Oh best of luck wmmc. I could have written a lot of your post myself, except that dd is 2.9 and ds just one month. Have read all the replies in the hope that there would be a genius idea, but sadly nothing that stands a chance for us.

Dd doesn't nap any more, but boo-boo is the last thing she wants before going to nursery school and the first thing she wants when she gets in. In fact her whole day revolves around her deciding which one to have and when, and all refusals by me are met by tears, screaming and often full on tantrums.

She has even started getting up around 5:30 each morning to come in for a feed when we are still asleep or I am feeding ds. Just what I need with a non-sleeping newborn to deal with .

I shall follow your progress with interest.