how do you make up bottles (store in fridge till needed, or make up as go along) and best way of warming them up

[tinkisinthe3rdtrimester]

hi

i am 29 weeks pregnant

will be just bottle feeding this one
just getting orgnaized
with dd made them all up in the fridge night before heard there is new guidlines about doindthis and that u should only make up as you go along
was thinking especially with night feeds if you make up as you go along wont it be too hot how do you cool down?

I think it's fine to say that you are prepared to make a parenting decision to take the risk out of convenience, but not to claim that there is no risk. I think that's why this thread has got so heated.

Amberc is right I think. To kill bugs you need to heat over a certain temp but also for a certain length of time. Sterilising doesn't happen the moment something gets hot and rinsing with boiling water doesn't work. Think of cooking - you get the food hot but you keep it there a while to kill the bugs.

Well I'd rather follow the guidelines that the people who did the research and actually know something about the bugs involved have issued.

If you choose to ignore those guidelines that is your perrogative. But I do feel it is dangerous advise other mothers on these matters when this advice is purely opinion and may not be safe.

1.nothing is safe.

1. Can't we have an adult discussion about the principals behind what we're doing rather than a dogmatic mantra about obeying all guidelines?

You can do whatever you like.

I am done here

Tink, sorry this all got a bit heated as well. If you are still confused, I suggest that you speak to your HV rather than listening to a whole load of "what I did was...", "mine were fine and I....", "in spain we..."

better from the horses mouth rather than anecdotal evidence from a bunch of virtual strangers.

As an aside i still refute that what you are told in spain is relevant in any way shape or form to what the recommendations are in this country. and you never mentioned "special" mineral water in your first post. Another case of half the information being more misleading. And the regulations on mineral water mean that it only needs to be tested for mineral composition on a five yearly basis (according to my DH who is in the food industry and won't touch the stuff with a bargepole due to the inconsistent testing that exists). Maybe the "special" stuff you buy in Spain is tested more regularly and as such is suitable for babies but surely this is another case of what's right in one country isn't the same in another, lol

that last was to parofleurmapo

I have got all the info below from the following WHO publication /WHO

"Even low levels of contamination of E. sakazakii in powdered infant formula were considered
to be a risk factor, given the potential for multiplication during the preparation and holding time prior
to consumption of reconstituted formula. "

"Based on a preliminary risk assessment, the inclusion of a lethal step at the point of preparation
and a decrease in the holding and feeding times effectively reduced risk. A combination of intervention
measures had the greatest impact. "

"Nutritional and other factors need to be considered, e.g. alteration of nutritional content, risk from burns due to
handling boiling or hot water/formula, and potential for germination of bacterial spores. The formula should
thereafter be cooled and handled appropriately."

I therefore stand by what I do. It is not the safest way of getting rid of this bacteria (which while in 14% of formula packets only VERY rarely causes a problem). By minimising the "holding time" I have reduced the risk significantly and by not introducing the formula to boiling water I have not altered its nutritional content and am minimising the risk of other bacterial spores germinating.

Cartons would be safest option if safety is your prime concern.

you shouldn't make with mineral water it has too many salts and minerals in that aren't good for the baby. You should follow the instructions on the tin.
Also, perhaps most importantly, wash your hands first.

Im done here too

No passive agressive tone meant in any way was only sharing opinion and another view on the matter

Quite (uoset)peeved you took my post that way

"Paro slaps self on wrist and reminds herself why she doesnt post on threads like this anymore!

and really, is there any need to get so arsey and rude as some people have? I mean, take a chill pill! You can give people advice with being that nasty, surely?

It seems that people don't like to hear "listen to official advice and read the guidelines" though, especially if they haven't followed them themselves; Spanish paediatricians advice excepted . And that's where the nastiness and aggression comes in as people feel they have to defend their parenting choice.

It's not exactly rocket science is it . The only conflicting information comes from threads like this, listening to what others did and reading the tins of different manufacturers.

I hope you can get this sorted tink and good luck with the rest of your pregnancy.

and on a final note.....if you really want to avoid all the conflicting information, you could always try BFing.......always at the right temperature and always sterile

I hope I didn't cause any offense. I was admittedly defending my own decisions but also trying to help OP find a way of making it work when the guidelines are not very easy to follow.

OH blimey, me again. I'm still confused. I went to bed last night and couldn't stop thinking about it. I was away at my sisters last night. I have discussed with DH this morning, and he says (please don't shoot me) that surely if it was that big a risk, it would be much more well known. It seems that many people on this thread (including me) weren't aware of these guidelines or risks.

I obviously don't want to put my baby at risk, but I'm kind of with idoliketobebesidethe in that, my day is busy enough, with 2 young kids and at the risk of sounding blase, I don't have time to do them all individually.

I am really trying to read and digest all the info on here. It's difficult for me to try and get it all straight in my head (must be cos I'm 'thick' !)

I honestly don't know what to do for the best. After reading it all thru, I'm thinking, if I sterilise my bottles as usual, fill them with boiled water then add the powder to the cooled (room temp) boiled water and don't re-heat....should that be OK

thanks btw whoever reported freddysteddy for her comments to me.

From what I read in WHO document that would be OK but not perfect. Adding to boiling water would be better in terms of some risks but not all. Cartons would be perfect.

As a point of information and to give further ammunition to those who want to ignore me - I also don't follow SIDS guidelines. They now state that you should have baby in a room with you in a cot for his/her day time naps. I have also kicked them all out of our bedroom early on because they are too noisy for me to sleep.

It is all about being a good enough parent - we can try but we can't be perfect at everything.

ohidoliketobebesidethe Thanks. I know it's not perfect, but tbh, I'm like you, I just cannot do everything as per guidelines, IYSWIM. I also kicked both mine out of our room at 4 months !!!

I wonder if the guidelines are so strict cos they have to cover themselves from litigation?

Or just made up by a committe of men who don't "get it".

too true.

cheers ladies
i am not breastfeeding this one due to dd being so fussy and it not working will leave it there

Hi tink, hi LP.
This really is one of the things you must stick to, just because of how serious it is if it happens.

Guidelines are there to 'guide' us ratehr than force us to do something but whislt you may feel the risks of putting your baby in their own room at 4 months outweigh the downsides of not, the risks here are possible fatality or a faff with bottles.

It says here how to do it.www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/formulaguidance.pdf

FWIW, ready prepared formula doesn't carry this worry and as LackDAISYcal said the water that the powder mixes with ahs to be 70 degrees, not all of it.

sorry just to add another bit into this thread - don't the cartons that contain the premade formula contain higher levels of the leeching chemical than the cans? so you're d*mned one way or the other.

I am shocked at the viciousness of some posters on this thread. The people on this thread expressed an opinion and tried to be helpful. I have two DC and have never heard of these guidelines despite seeing numerous HV and other health professionals. The other poster probably didn't either, they were not trying to maliciously harm a child.

And just because you presumably are right (for the time being and until the guidelines change again) doesn't give you the right to insult or abuse other people who were meaning well. And beside being aggressive is probably not the best way to get your point accross methinks.

As I understand it the formula powder is not sterile so you need hot water to sterilise it. Then obviously the best of all possible worlds would be to use it straight away. If it is left the bacteria start to multiply. If it is cooled rapidly and kept in the fridge the rate at which the bacteria multiply would be very slow.
I make up 4 feeds with very hot water, cool them in very cold water and keep them in the fridge for 12 hours. This seems sensible to me and I don't have to run the steriliser (takes about 10 min for a cycle) before I make each feed. I run the steriliser, make them all up and keep them very cold for 12 hours.
Making them with cooled water would be the same as long as you give them the feed straight away as obviously you aren't killing bacteria with the heat so you need to give the feed asap so as not to give the bacteria a chance to multiply.
The guidelines were changed because of 2 deaths due to unhygienic preparation. So if you tell people they can never leave the feeds once made you have less chance of someone making it up, leaving it in the sun and feeding it 2 days later.

I understand the guidelines and will stick to them if I do end up bottle feeding DC2, but there is one bit that confuses me and I've asked before and no one seems to answer.
If you add the powder to the 70 degree + water and then top up with cool water, why does the cool water have to be cooled boiled water rather than just tap water?