Having medically necessary termination, what about bf my 11 month old..?

[hopefullypregnant]

I am struggling somewhat... following a nuchal scan and further tests it turns out my 12 week foetus has abnormalities that are incompatible with life and I am seeing 2nd consultant tomorrow for termination. Aim was to get first round of tablets for medical termination tomorrow. However I am now worried about my 11 month old who is still bf... I presume the consultant will tell me to wean her. I was also today offered a surgical termination but advised it is more risky at this stage than a medical one (I'm 12 weeks and 4 days). I will obviously discuss all this tomorrow with consultant, but does anyone have any experience of this?

Please don't judge me for the termination: I feel I have no choice, as the baby would not survive to term - I can't face waiting for months for the inevitable to happen. I know that makes me sound harsh but I feel I need to get through and past this somehow.

Thanks for your support!

morphine fine with bf, i had it with both of my caesarean births

Thanks Bundle - I think now I recall that I too had morphine with emergency section with DD.

Kat and LittleMy, thank you both for telling me what you went through. We haven't had CVS in fact... what happened to us was we went for a nuchal scan and found a nuchal measurement of 8.7mm and a 1 in 2 risk of Edwards, 1 in 2 of Patau, 1 in 2 of Turners and 1 in 4 of Downs, plus cystic hygroma round the neck. Went back the next day for CVS to find out that the nuchal measurement had gone up to 10.6 and that the fluid was everywhere, not just round neck but inside baby too. We spoke to several consultants who made it clear that the baby's chances of surviving were absolutely minimal. Couldn't have CVS because the placenta is in a bad place and they couldnt get to the baby. In any case it was apparent that there was no positive outcome from CVS and that the baby would not survive, or, at best, would survive with serious organ problems. Choice was to wait and allow baby to die naturally, which could happen soon or could happen months down the line, or terminate now. Hence the decision, and hence the need for tests, as we want to know if there was a chromosomal problem or the structural problems or indeed both.

Today I feel very sick, not sure if as result of yesterday's tablet, of lack of sleep or of anxiety and stress. Probably the latter. We've been shopping and bought DD a new dress for her birthday and went out for lunch.

Katy, have you had your DD since losing the baby, then? That gives me hope. I see why waiting makes sense as at the moment I'm clinging to trying again in a way that would probably prevent me from grieving. I haven't told anyone in RL about this apart from both sets of parents and the two hospitals we've been in - the one we were booked into and the one where we had the private nuchal. The staff we've met so far have been wonderfully sensitive; I hope tomorrow's lot are, too. They have a horrible job.

OK, DD is shouting for attention. Thank you again; I really appreciate both your honesty and support.

oh hopefully that does sound hard.

If it's any consolation, last time round our baby had a nuchal of 4.8mm and although chromosomes were fine he had serious heart defects - but this time our nuchal is 1.9mm and everything looks very normal so far, so sometimes these things really just are a complete one off.

Wishing you a peaceful night and lots of strength for tomorrow

Thanks Dancing. I'm clinging to the fact that we have a healthy DD and her nuchal was fine - can't remember what it was.

Good luck with the anomaly scan. Given that great nuchal score, I'm sure everything is normal.

I'll let you know how it goes.

hopefullypregnant, I'm so sorry about the devastating news about your pregnancy, and really want you to know that I'm thinking about you at this difficult time, xxx

So sorry to hear how the nuchal went, and when you went back for the CVS. It is totally heartbreaking and I will never forget how it felt to receive such devastating news.

Yes, we have had our DD since. We waited 3 months and then we were pg on the second month of trying (I cheated a bit and bought an ovulation monitor thing - which was good as I found out I ovulate on the 18 day of the month, not 14th).

I still feel sad about the baby we lost, and have a little cry every now and again if something sets me thinking. We found it helped to name him/her, because we kept on referring to 'the baby' afterwards, but I knew that once I was pg again we would refer to that baby as 'the baby'. It helped to be able to talk about him/her in that way. Although I am not religious I think that some things are meant to be. We wouldn't have had DD if it hadn't have happened and I couldn't be without her now.

I will be thinking of you tomorrow. I hope you manage to get some sleep.

Just to add to what Kat said - we also named our baby, and I agree, it really helped. It allows us to acknowledge him as a person who existed even if it was for a short while, and to refer to him, which we still do from time to time.

good luck tomorrow xxx

hp, so very sorry you are going through this. Must be a horrible shock for you. Take care of yourself.

hopefully pregnant -just to add to the others and say how sorry I am to hear of your loss. Agree that namning good as dancing said .

we too waited 3 months and pregnant 2 months of trying like veryhungry says.... still think of our son all the time and tell dd about him as want her to know she has a big brother.

all the very best to you xxx

hopefullypregnant just checking in to say that I hope it all went ok - we're all here if you need us

Hi all
Thank you for all your messages of support; it means a lot, because I don't feel able to tell people in RL. It's silly, because I would if I had had a miscarriage, but the termination part of this I find hard to come to terms with...

We arrived at the hospital at 8.15 yesterday, eventually had the pessaries at 9.45 (delay partly incompetence on their part, partly paperwork, and then partly me crying my eyes out and going rigid when they tried to insert the pessaries). The baby was born at 2.20 pm and I didnt have terrible pain - managed on paracetamol and codeine - but I fainted when the baby was born and then was confined to bed to deliver the placenta, which took ages as I was lying down. The morning nurse was frankly not great - her English wasnt great and I couldnt understand her a lot of the time, and she couldnt understand me, although she was trying to be nice. The afternoon nurse was lovely: strong and compassionate and reassuring. We did see our baby and s/he looked utterly perfect, which of course leads me to wonder: were they right?... was there something that wrong...? but I need to just accept that we made the decision and that was that. Baby is having a postmortem and chromosomal testing and we'll get the results in 6-8 weeks. I didn't ask about TTC again as somehow yesterday was about that baby and not any other potential ones. We will wait till the results, anyway, in case there's something we need to know.

Physically I didnt find the process too awful - think maybe I was lucky - emotionally I think it's just going to slowly sink in over time. We won't know the baby's sex until the chromosomal testing is complete and will wait to name him/her until then but we do want to name the baby. In terms of the cremation, DH really wants to go, so we probably will. I don't know how I feel.

Anyway thank you all for being here; it helps a lot. I am really sorry to hear about your experiences too. I will probably be back with questions and tears!

Oh and on a positive note, bf hasn't been affected, and DD is fine, cough aside!

Hi hopefully

Glad to hear that you're still in one piece - well done for getting through it and I'm glad they looked after you, more or less.

Also delighted to hear that the bf is fine - really pleased that you managed to keep it up through it all, you should be really proud.

We had exactly the same feeling when we saw our son - he looked so perfect that we couldn't believe his heart was in such bad shape, but I think it really did help to see him and be able to say goodbye.

Be really kind to yourself and to each other - we found life returned to normal on the surface very quickly, but every so often we'd stop and think 'why do we feel so awful' and realise we were still grieving under it all.

I was very angry with the world in general for a while, I found that whenever I spoke to people I wanted to scream at them because how could they be talking about all these normal things when this dreadful thing had happened to us?

Please do keep us posted on how you're doing - thinking of you lots and wishing you a peaceful and restful weekend

LMD xxx

Hi hp, I'm sure they haven't gotten it wrong, scans are so accurate nowadays. A baby can look perfect on the outside and still have so many problems inside that make life impossible or unbearable. You have done the right thing by your little one.
I do think you should go to the cremation even if it's something you don't feel like doing now. A friend of mine had a missed MC at 9 weeks and when the sonographer gave her and her dh the scan photo they were a bit as they couldn't see the point but the sonographer assured them that although they couldn't see it now, they would be glad later on to have the photo. And they were!
And I hope I'm not out of line here but I personally believe that if a little one dies too young, their spirit often comes back to the same family later as another baby. Have read of a couple of cases where this seemed to be true. Apologies if I am out of line.

Good to hear you got through it all okay, and that DD is happily breastfeeding away. She must be a comfort to you. It's hard to have to wait so long for test results.

If you'd like to, and I certainly won't be offended if you don't, please feel free to email me at neuromum78 at yahoo dot com. I can give you my proper email address then. Just thought it might help to be able to talk outside of the bf board. But then, perhaps its easier. I don't know, but the offer is there anyway.

Hi all of you

Dancing, I agree that seeing the baby helped, although it was incredibly hard. I am glad I didn't go for the surgical option as being there while it happened turns out to have been important to me. I havent got to angry yet, just sad, but I have done normal things - cooked dinner, been shopping, played with DD, even had a glass of wine - and I am trying to distract myself from the rawness by planning DD's birthday.

Chip, we have the scan photo from an 8 week scan - carried out because I had been bleeding for 10 days - and also the photo from the 12 week scan where we found out it had all gone wrong. At the 12 week scan, they asked if we wanted it or not and we decided we did, although we refused photos of the baby when she/he was born. We are definitely going to the cremation service as we can't bear our baby not having a proper goodbye.

I agree that actually going through the process awake was important, in the end - not saying it helped, because I'm not sure if it did or not, but I am glad I was actively part of the process and got to see my baby. I am dreading the cremation but think that is probably another step I need to take.

What I'm finding hard is that in RL only my parents and PILs know. My parents had a miscarriage and also tried for 10 years before they had me, so they understand in a way, but they definitely want to downplay things, probably to stop me hurting. My PILs sent a text today 'hope you're all better and forgetting about it now'. I think that shows they don't understand, although I guess nobody does until they go through it and they are trying to help.

Katy, thank you very much for your email address and I will email you; I appreciate very much your offer.

Thank you all for your messages of support - it really helps.

Hi hopefully,

I'm glad you felt you chose the right option in terms of how it was managed - I think it is important to go through the process in a way, as it allows your body to adjust as well as your mind - I can't imagine anything weirder than just going to sleep and waking up not pregnant, I think that would really mess up my head.

Sounds like you're doing brilliantly in terms of coping - it is hard when people talk about forgetting straight afterwards, even though you know they're trying to be kind, it's not something you can ever totally forget. It just finds its place in your head, if that makes any sense at all.

We found our son's cremation useful as a way of drawing a line under it all. The chaplain was great, he kept it very simple and just read a short poem we'd chosen, and we just had us and my mum there. I hope you find it helps you too.

Wishing you lots of strength in the coming weeks, and obviously we're all still here if you need us

LMD x

I think I know what you mean about things finding a place in your head eventually. I'm struggling more tonight because DH, who needs to share more than me, has told his boss, a friend at work and another friend. The boss was sympathetic, the friend at work unexpectedly revealed that almost the exact same thing had happened to them, and the other friend said 'I am sorry for what you've been through and support you all the way but it's difficult as we all have different opinions on abortion'. That has upset me because I didn't and don't see it as abortion, even though I suppose other people do/would... I haven't told anyone in RL yet - am going to tell a close friend tomorrow. I feel ashamed, upset, guilty, and I find it easier not to tell people. I think if I need counselling it's to come to terms with the termination as much as the loss.

In the meantime though I have been to work - I know, sounds mad, but I had 2 weeks off with bleeding from 6-8 weeks only a week after I resumed work from maternity leave (!) and I suspect I might need time after the results. I just felt normality was best and I managed fine at work, just with exasperation with silly things. I have agreed to go to the cremation - spoke to the hospital today. It still feels a bit unreal despite everything...

Off to make dinner now. I am shocked by hunger returning: in some ways Friday came as a release after days of struggling and sickness and nightmares. In another, of course, it was just the start.

Thanks Dancing, and good luck with your scan! when is it?

Hello hopefully! (Tis me, Dancing, under my new name....)

Sorry to hear about your DPs friend being untactful - he could have just kept his mouth shut, really, couldn't he! Wouldn't have hurt! Just keep remembering - you made YOUR decision based on YOUR feelings and YOUR instincts. Whether someone else would have made the same decision as you is completely irrelevant, there is no right answer with these things.

You might find that telling someone really helps though - we didn't have a choice as it was so late on that everyone knew we were pregnant, but some of the love and support we received from our friends was absolutely fantastic. And it makes it easier now, to be able to talk about the baby we lost without having to explain what happened - all our friends know all about it and we can mention his name in conversation quite naturally.

You will have lots of conflicting feelings over the next weeks - you mentioned upset, ashamed, guilty for example. Just keep remembering that you did what you felt was best for your child and your family, and you did it out of love for your child, your DD, and your DH. You have NOTHING to feel ashamed about. You have been through a really difficult and traumatic experience and you are still in one piece. That's pretty amazing.

Do work know? Be very gentle on yourself, and do consider telling HR at least if they don't know - you might find you need some more time off or at least to be treated gently for a while, so it might be good for them to know. You don't have to go into details if you don't want to, just saying that you lost a baby is enough.

You're doing so brilliantly, keeping it all together. I'm thinking of you lots and sending you lots of virtual strength.

Scan is on Wed - fingers crossed!

x

Katy - I emailed you and my message bounced back...? Is the address you gave correct?

Dancing, I work for an enormous institution which has several HR sections and they have nothing to do with my job, really. My line manager is terribly indiscreet. Hence silence at work. I guess eventually I might want to tell more people.

Back to planning DD's first birthday. Good luck with the scan tomorrow; am sure it will go well!

Sorry, dot co dot uk.
oops!

hope DDs party goes well, hopefully!

hope you didn't feel I was telling you what you should do, it might have come across that way but that's totally not what I intended.

x

you could bank your milk in the freezer? then at least when u take the medication youve got spare thats drug free.as long as u use a pump it should keep u flowing until ur got no pills in ur system, bit like what u do when u have an alcoholic drinkie .????

hopefully, not much to say about the breastfeeding, but couldn't not post. My heart really does go out to you, I can't imagine being where you are. I don't judge you at all, someone on SANDS (you may find it useful to join us there) said that the way they looked at it they would have to make a decision to switch off a machine at some point and felt it was far kinder to their baby to make that decision now, the machine they switch off being the womb before the baby could feel the pain of being in the world.

Your baby will have looked perfect, they always do the problems probably wouldn't have shown up in the physical appearance till later if they did. Are they going to give you your baby to make your own arrangements?

About waiting, it depends on what was wrong. If you are healthy then there's no physical reason to wait after you've had a period. It depends really on how you are feeling and coping. Personally after my miscarriage I couldn't wait, I didn't want to lose momentum by putting so much gap between that I started to think about it. I was going to wait 3 months after losing Lily-Hope as they were testing me and I wanted to be sure we would start a new pregnancy with an answer. I was five weeks pregnant though we did get the answer!

Hi Katy, will resend email.

Tinkerbellesmum, thanks for your message of support. I am so sorry that you lost Lily-Hope and at such a later stage. You have so much strength and compassion! I will look up SANDS and thank you for the suggestion.

The hospital chaplain is going to contact us when the baby's body is returned there and we will arrange a cremation then - just a small service for us.

Dancing, you didn't sound bossy at all! In fact I think/know you're right. I'm just slow to act on good advice when it means telling people things.

On a different note, how much bleeding is normal? I was bleeding like a heavy period but today - thankfully I'm at home on Tuesdays - it has been like a flood (excuse TMI) and flooded through pads and clothes. I don't think anyone told me how much to expect - it's way more than the lochia after I had DD.

iirc, I bled quite a lot in the first week or so, and then it was reasonably light after that.

The lochia I had with DS went on for longer and was more consistent, iyswim, rather than being loads at the beginning and then trailing off.

Glad I didn't upset you - you have to do what you think is right, all I can do is share with you what helped us, and then you can decide if you want to do that or not. You sound like you're doing brilliantly as it is though!

xxx