Senior HV says Co-Sleeping is very dangerous

[MoonlightMcKenzie]

She's actually a very good HV in lots of ways but trained a long time ago. Her bf knowledge isn't brilliant but I have never heard anything damaging from her.

I know she would be openminded and interested in information I could provide on co-sleeping NOT being very dangerous, so this is a request for links and research.

Many thanks

I co-slept with A in hospital - a wise midwife said notto bother waiting for a cot and to tuck him in with me on the bed to go up to post-natal. Later, they used about 10 pillows to pad off the bed rail so we could be togehter and he wouldn't fall out, as I couldn't get up to reach the cot. Can';t say we got any sleep, though.

I do find that 'Don't cosleep if very tired' line in all the NHS blurbs confusing though!

Agree notcitrus - What's the point of going to sleep when you're very awake?

You know when you are totally exhausted - the times you just do not stir until morning? That's what they mean. A normal level of tiredness where you will rouse for baby is fine.

at 80-90% of SIDS babies mothers smoked in pregnancy, never knew it was so high.

I can understand the NHS 'very tired' thing. I've had three nights with no sleep. Apparently I got up at 4am handed DS over to DH without saying anything, lay down on the mat in the bathroom and slept for four hours - I don't remember this. I don't even remember him waking me up and putting me back to bed . If I can walk round the house carrying a baby and even move floors without being conscious, how aware do you think I am of a baby?

Having said all this I do co-sleep but if it's got to day three and I haven't slept, he goes in his cot or somewhere else because you can actually slip into REM sleep almost immediately when you lie down and a paralysed body is insensitive to the sweet little dude you are lying too close to and getting too hot!

I agree with WMMC, DS2 is 26weeks, we've had one full night sleep in this time.
I am tired, but not generally 'over-tired'. I wake as soon as he makes a noise, I am aware of him if I take him into bed with me and when he decides he has had enough and moves away from me I wake up and put him back in his own cot (he has been in this about 6weeks now).
However, there are nights I've woken up and felt so disorientated that I won't take him into bed with me, or I will, but I sit up on the edge of the bed to feed him. Whilst sat on the edge, or even standing sometimes! I have to really struggle to keep myself awake. This is normally after one or two bad nights. IMO, I wouldn't be safe to sleep with him then and I often don't even remember feeding him when I wake up.

Oh yes, the double standard again...

"Baby dies whilst co-sleeping = ban co-sleeping"

But

"baby dies in cot = ban cots?"

As others have pointed out, it's about ensuring safety precautions are taken, whether co-sleeping or cot sleeping.

I find it odd that people forget that humans evolved co-sleeping. And I believe incidences of SIDS are rising in countries that are beginning to abandon co-sleeping and adopting the western practice of separating the baby from it's mother at night.

vlc, I can't remember which country it is(China or Japan maybe) but they've started to move from the traditional beds (sheet and reeds type thing) to the western cots over the last however many years. Since then cot death has started to appear in their society. There are so many factors in what causes SIDS but our culture of getting our children as independent as possible as quickly as possible doesn't like to take in all possible factors especially those that take a more AP/ CC approach.

I have ds2 lying next to me right now in bed. Despite lack of sleep (teething) I dont sleep deeply and am very aware of where he is. He is now 9 months old. Am breastfeeding and have heard that when nursing and co-sleeping you physically dont sleep as deeply.. dont know if this is true and interested in knowing whether it is or not.

The also put him in bed with me in hospital as he was cold.

Actually with ds1 he was tucked up with me from at hospital.

Vlc, such a good point. Humans have co-slept for thousands and thousands of years, it is the natural way and we are equipped to do that. But our modern way of living, with things like the disappearance of the extended family, causes mothers to be exhausted, which can be dangerous. If you had a granny and a handful of aunties, or big brothers and sisters, looking after your baby while you nap during the day, mothers would be alert at night.

I have always slept better with my lo's next to me, because I only had to open my eyes to see they were alright, or needed a feed. Breastfeeding helps as well, as it makes you sleep fall asleep easily, but lets you sleep lightly. I can't remember now which hormone was responsible for this...

I have a Japanese friend, and she was horrified when she learned that babies in England sleep apart from the mother!

Buttonmeup, crosspost there about the light sleeping

I am sure it's true, I've read it in several books, (but can't remember the detail...)

Now I cant link to it but maybe someone else can? I read a study about maternal body heat dropping to regulate the temp of a baby if it became too hot whilst in skin to skin?

I co-sleep, sometimes I wonder why I bothered havng 2 bedrooms besides my own! I do worry bu am ot a bi srinker (would like to be but....)/ drugs taker (legal or not), and my baby has prett strong separation anxiety and hence has only slept not attached to me twice.

I'd have liked the option, but prob would do it anyway.

bteastfeeding mothers do not go into the 4th stage of sleep, the deepest phase or if they do, it is brief. same with cosleeping bfing babies. this is what may protect the babt from sids and how cosleeping/bfing mothers are still able to monitor the baby through the night.

these mums still ratethe quality of sleep as good.

Peachy, that's right. The chest of a mother is a couple of degrees warmer than normal body temperature, if baby is cool then Mum warms herself back up and if baby is warm Mum cools herself down. It's far more effective than putting baby in an incubator or baby therm. In countries that can't afford an incubator per sick child Kangaroo Mother Care is vital.

foxytocin, that's a fact I love too. It just blows the "get them sleeping through the night" thing out of the water!

It can be dangerous though, my cousin co slept with her daughgter and rolled on her when she was sleeping and she died

Don't they suggest putting baby on a pillow or somthing high up near your head?

I wouldnt do it but for the obvious reasons just adding my bit

no- pilows a massive suffocation risk!!!!

mamadiva, as sad as it is that your cousin lost her child, I'd be interested to know if it was just simply co-sleeping. Was she a regular co-sleeper, breastfeeding, none smoker (and her partner), not overly tired, not had any alcohol...

As vlc, babies die in cots too.

I think its very much a personal risk situation-much like pregnancy food advice-they tell you what you cant eat, you then make your own decision about what you will eat.
They tell you its not a particularly safe thing to do, lay down the reasons why and you make the choice to either co-sleep/semi co sleep or not co sleep at all.....

Out of the three semi-cosleeping is probably the most dangerous.

Tink- she was a non smoking single parent and it happened when I was little but I think she done it every night and BF although just vaguely remember.

why?
what evidence of that do you have? personally i think its the safest option.
I had a slide down side cot which went up against the bed, he slept there, i pulled him over for a feed and pushed him back over when hed finished, that way i got a restful nights sleep without thinking I was going to squash him

Daft question what is semi co sleeping? Is that when you use a drop side cot or something sorry am totally confused by this LOL.

well thats what i consider semi co sleeping, maybe TinkerBellesMum is thinking of something else?