was shocked by the amount of bottle-feeders in hospital

[misdee]

found it quite upsetting at times. my bed was by the empties 'bottle bank', so saw how many people on the ward were bottle feeding. in the 4 days i was there, there were 10 women on the ward in total, and only myself and another lady was breastfeeding. The midwives offered help to everyone, but most decided on bottles.

the reason i found it upsetting was because i didnt want dd3 to have formula but that choice was basically taken away from me whilst she was SCBU and was given formula by tube.

Dizzymama, so sorry you feel distressed by this thread. Am sure it's no one's intention to make you feel guilty about the choice you made, which was obv the best for you and your babe.
Agree totally with happy mum = happy baby. I think I was very lucky to find bf relatively easy, and it has come as a surprise to me that so many women find it so hard, especially when with more support and information I think more women who want to bf would do so (eg Misdee with dd1)
And Misdee, am totally shocked by your inflammatory comments about Tesco nappies! I used Boots own! How dare you! Outside!

its one thing to be upset at lack of support in hospitals, or your baby being given formula when you didn't want him/her to but quite another to be 'shocked' at the amount of people bottle feeding. don't see what's shocking about it all to be honest, its not like its a gin and tonic in the bottle is it? and removing formula from hospitals? even 'thinking out loud' misdee, its a little offensive not to mention plain bonkers. Would it reduce the amount of people bottle feeding? No. We'd bring in our own and unless there were police men on the door actively stopping me, I'm afraid no-one's telling me what I put in my baby's mouth. Not to mention the fact many people do actually find the idea of breast feeding unpleasant. I know that's strange if you happen to love it, but some don't like the sensation.

Message withdrawn

leglebegle, i totally agree.
as for how i fed my dd, i chose to bottlefeed, and do not feel i need to explain why, as others have said its personal preference, what totally annoyed me was, when i was being sutured after suffering a 3rd degree tear, i had 2 midwives and the registrar harrassing me to breastfeed that seriously annoyed me as i had already made my decision and felt they were trying to heckle me into doing something i already decided i wasnt goning to do, i think there are far too many "earthmothers" talking down to mothers who bottlefeed, i think how you treat and care and love your kids is the more important than "how did you feed them??"

leglebegle, i totally agree.
as for how i fed my dd, i chose to bottlefeed, and do not feel i need to explain why, as others have said its personal preference, what totally annoyed me was, when i was being sutured after suffering a 3rd degree tear, i had 2 midwives and the registrar harrassing me to breastfeed that seriously annoyed me as i had already made my decision and felt they were trying to heckle me into doing something i already decided i wasnt goning to do, i think there are far too many "earthmothers" talking down to mothers who bottlefeed, i think how you treat and care and love your kids is the more important than "how did you feed them??"

Are we forgetting that Misdee has a six (?) day old baby here? Can we expect her to have phrased the title of this thread totally PC?

I think I know what Misdee is getting at. When I was in hospital after having DS1 I too was surprised to be the only one b/feeding in a room of four. When I talked to the other Mums in the room I was surprised to hear their reasons, sadly mostly centering around being too shy to feed in front of male relatives or male friends of their DH/DP's. When I had DS2 (only in the hospital for a few hours) a Mum who had delivered at roughly the same time as me decided to give b/f a go, she got all upset about there not being any milk and when she spoke to a MW about it the MW just said that's right there is no milk, your milk won't come in until day three or four. At that she was convinced she was starving her DS and asked for a bottle.

whhoooppsss

Some of Misdee's comments on this thread:

"i honestly didnt relasie that bottle feeding was more popular than breastfeeding. maybe i'm naive

i guess that with my other dd's i was in and out of hospital so quick (next day with dd1, same day with dd2) i never realised how many people choose bottle over breast.

do you think that some mothers would try breastfeeding if they removed the formula in the hospital except for medical purposes?

ok, maybe removing the formula isnt a good idea, was just thinking out loud

i'm not saying its bad to bottlefeed"

Please note that the 'removing formula' comment was a question. I found Misdee and everyone else's comments on this thread open, curious and non-judgemental.
I think there is a very mixed culture of bottle vs breast. Some mums want to bf and feel bad when they 'fail' (not my term) and others choose to bottlefeed and are judged for their choice by other mums. Some hospital staff assume everyone's bottle feeding and some want everyone to bf.
I'm still surprised by the vehemence in some people's opinions and reactions to bf vs bottle.

Yes please, why is an expression of shock taken to be an attack? I was quite shocked too, when I was in hospital - I just didn't expect it to be so prevalent at such an early age in an environment which paid so much PC lip service to bf (posters everywhere). But that doesn't mean I thought bottle-feeding mothers should all be marched off to stand in front of a firing squad, and Misdee has made it quite clear that that's not what she thinks either.

Congratulations on the new baby btw Misdee!

Has anyone ever felt guilty about breastfeeding. With my first I was determined to BF despite bleeding nipples, a case of Mastitis and toe curling pain. A year later I found out my boy has a severe life threatening allergy to seasame seeds due to it being introduced too early to him via my breast milk. I had a passion for Humous while breastfeeding.

I hated breastfeeding but I kept going responding to the pressure and I'm sure it affected my bonding. It did get a lot better after about 7 weeks and there are lots of advantages to BF. I am currently mixed feeding my newborn which works well for me and gives my partner a chance to be involved.

Incidentially my mother thinks I'm mad to BF and keeps comparing me to a cow. My Dad was a Dairy farmer. Apparently you cannot use Milk from a cow that has Mastitis so you can imagine her response to a Doc who said it was fine to continue BFing baby when I had mastitis.

oh fgs, i havent said it is bad to bottlefeed and anyone who gives formula is bad mum etc etc, but found it shocking (and yes i will continue to say it as that is how i felt) the % of mums on the ward who were giving formula.

and i admit the suggestion of removing formula from the wards was abad one, but it was a genuine question. another one i want to know, is if people are shown how to make up bottles of formula? As i know i found the instructions confsuing at times (do i add water before the powder, or after, how do i work out how much baby needs? etc etc)

I still feel, VERY strongly, that it's every woman's personal choice. I had severe PND and a postpartum infection that required IV antibiotics following a nightmarish birth. I couldn't breast feed b/c of all the medications I had to take. And TBH the whole experience upset me so much if we have another baby I don't think I'm even going to try. I was that traumatised.

Not every woman who doesn't bf choses bottles b/c she's too lazy, can't be arsed, etc.

Misdee, you were perfectly clear to me!
And to add to your question, Biglips said this further down:"im first time mum and i didnt know which formula to give to baba (SMA or Cow & gate) as i was all set to bf baba. i had to ask DP in the end which one is the best formula (he got a DD from prev relationship so he knows abit)"
So it would appear that information about bottle feeding can be a little unclear too. I was ready to go with sma purely because a friend had used it, and I bought Mothercare bottles because they were cheaper than Avent. What if ds3 had been allergic to SMA or didn't like the bottle teats? Again, I'm amazed. How is there so little info on this subject? And yes, instructions on formula should be made very simple so that brain dead sleep deprived mums such as me can understand them! Thankfully, even I wasn't such a zombie after birth that I forgot where my boobs were, otherwise ds3 may have starved!
And congrats on dd3.
And I repeat:how dare you about the Tesco nappies!Hmph!

I think a lot of people coose to bottlefeed because their mothers, who can often be "chief advisers" bottlefed and they have never seen anyone breastfeed. Also in our culture, breasts are seen as erotic, people have forgotten what they're actually for! Therefore breastfeeding is seen as "pervy." In my family breastfeeding was accepted as the norm: there were always someone's boobs out at family gatherings, so all of us, when it came to our turn chose to breastfeed. BTW when I had ds2 in 1998, four out of feive women in my ward started breasfeeding, 3 days later 2 had given up, due in my opinion to inadequate help from overworked MW's, who regularly gave bottles of formula/dextrose instead of helping women to latch babies on correctly.

i think one of the saddest things in the world is to see a newborn being given a bottle of formula.
a human baby has a fundamental right to human milk, and to deprive him of that is to curtail his human rights.
having said that, i think that there are valid reasons for bottlefeeding, i mainly bottlefed my eldest. but i still think it is sadthat a newborn be denied mothers milk.
no doubt people will be annoyed by my opinion, but it is my opinion and i am allowed to say it.

ooooo stitch you might have lit the torchpaper now!!

You'll be needing one of these, Stitch.

lol cloudy.

oh dear stitch, i hope your prepared

duster, boots nappies are useless. try tescos

Actually, -hospitals which have achieved Baby Friendly status do NOT provide free formula and mums bring it in for themselves. They have excellently trained staff to give advice and supportfor breastfeeding.
Breastfeeding rates in these hospitals are substantially higher than in other hospitals.ther is hope!!
:0

expatinscotland - couldn't agree more!! it really p*ssed me off when people made assumptions about why I bottlefed my DS's. It is nobody elses bloody business anyway

FWIW stitch - it would be even sadder to see a newborn starve . I will not be drawn into another slanging match about this though.

Message withdrawn

But the figures for formula feeding are not necessarily what they seem, either. Istr Tiktok has posted stats about the number of women who are f-feeding at 6wks. Only a small minority f-feed because that's what they've chosen to do - most give up b-fing because of a lack of support to keep going. Imo, it isn't the women who've 'failed', it's the system that's the failure. Norway has high breastfeeding stats (?95%) but I doubt Norwegian woman are physiologically different to UK women, so the discrepancy must lie elsewhere, such as in the help and support available to them.

Wow Stitch, I think there is a difference here between saying that bf is best for the baby and it's important that women are encouraged and supported so they can bf and saying it is one of the "saddest things in the world". You should read the papersa bit more often I think to get some perspectives!