Can breastfeeding really cure all?

[shuffle]

I am confused by some of the claims made about the benefits of breastfeeding. (Especially the link made to curing cancer on recent program) A friend of mine exclusively breastfed until 6 months and her daughter has all sorts of awful allergies and excema, I also breastfed and my baby caught the same bugs as everyone else. Yes its best for mother and baby, yes its wonderful but I think that some of the advice and information given about the supposed benefits can be exaggerated.

I know it just went off track a bit. In this thread I think quoting research is completely valid. A raw nerve for me I suppose since when I looked for support I certainly found it, but with small side order of reminders of all the benefits - and that was the whole crux of the dilemma in the first place of course. Hence my admittedly overblown reference to fundamentalists - by which I meant people ignoring your actual question and quoting texts to bolster their own opinions rather than allowing any hint of an alternative point of view.

So back on track - clearly breast feeding isn't a cure-all. Don't think the OP meant that and I guess was using it to refer to the Kate Garraway programme the other night in which a man with prostate cancer believed breast milk to have sent his cancer into prolonged remission. I think this segment of the programme was ill-advised and sat oddly with the general theme of breastfeeding other people's babies - hardly a new phenomenon and nothing wrong with it if it makes everyone happy. But I worry about people with cancer suggesting that there are miracle cures which might prompt others to turn away from conventional medicine. And I think in this case breast milk was being given the status of a miracle cure. It boosts a baby's health and might have long lasting benefits depending on a raft of other socio-economic factors, but it doesn't cure disease.

I don't understand that (didn't see the program), how did a program about bf other people's children turn into an ebf and a cure all type thing?
Should they just have renamed it Breastfeeding Oddballs??

It is precisely attitudes which are the problem. I have explained what I mean about the use of research already - I think it was my use of the expression 'bandying about' which has riled you so it's really a question of semantics. I didn't suggest there had been a direct attack, just an aggressive tone in an area which clearly causes great distress and going on about being pissed off etc is unhelpful.

If you read what I say I am not dismissing people who are using their expertise to try to help people. The first time I ever logged on here was because I was in search of exactly that kind of help re feeding which was causing enormous stress (not just the feeding itself - there were other significant family factors I mentioned which made it hard and these were glossed over by some in their eagerness to promote breastfeeding). As I said, some were helpful, some weren't. Which do you think you are being at the moment?

By the way, I am not 'refusing' to name names but at the time I had other things on my mind and haven't got a clue what their names were. It was their words which mattered.

this thread has gone into the prim and proper schoolteacher mentality. Like back in KS1, not one of us would entertain the idea that their teacher could swear or get drunk and fall over.

I think that this is the same bar that 'some people' want to set for people who are breastfeeding advocates. They must never say anything that could be construed as anything but angelic and right. I mean, guilt is construed in the mind of the holder. How can a scientific document evoke guilt. It is analytical and dry.

What I wonder is these objectors not get annoyed at being patronised by the FF companies who don't give even some of the truth about some of the basic facts around formula feeding. Taht they would rather give you infomercials and 'carelines' instead of the truth. That formula is cheap to make. That formula is not sterile. That the vitamins in formula may not be in the most bioavailable form for a baby to metabolise. That there may be no benefits to the new-fangled additives in their products. That 2 batches of formula made the in the same month do not necessarily have the same 'formula'.

I know what it is like to be patronised. To have the whole truth with held from me because others have made their own jaundiced version of who they think I am and what they think I can understand or should know or is 'too much knowledge' for me. I fecking hate it! In my case, because I am not white, it usually is an insidious form of racism which is behind them patronising me. It cuts to the quick sometimes but most of the times now, I can smile and put it into perspective and move on.

For the formula makers, the Food Standards Agency, the NHS, the Advertising Standards people, it is obviously not racism, it is something deeper and more complex: it is political, cultural, misoygnistic (?), the undervaluing of the needs of babies and infants and the desire and needs of new parents. And of course, with a chorus of women behind them, believing that people like me make them 'feel guilty' takes away their rightful responsibility and absolves them of their duty to change the status quo for letting us women and our babies down.

It used to piss me right off.

But now I am just jaded.

Re the programme - I don't know. Some of it was balanced stuff, essentially about modern wet nursing. Then this weird segment about a very unwell looking man who drank breastmilk on prescription and said it cured his cancer. American - don't think our local authority would provide prescription milk over other cancer therapies. Didn't fit since rest of the programme was about infants and mothers etc. But I imagine that is what prompted the OP.

Yes, aggressive tone on a thread that is about discussing research
Pissed off at the absoilute lack of logic shown by some posters but the devout belief that by trotting out anecdotal evidence they are somehow disproving scientific research
Apologies if I have touched a nerve - I will be sure not to let my feelings show through in future.

foxy think I'll join you in the jaded corner, green is a colour that suits us both.

foxytocin, I don't think anyone feels guilty because of a document. It is the timing of using them and the fact that something raw and emotional is being given a dry and analytical response. I don't doubt most of these are trying to be helpful, just not sure how to do it.

I'm no advocate of formula companies - far from it. But since I have no wet nurse I am glad to be able to feed my healthy babies in the best way I could. Thank god it was there or, had my girl been born in another age, she would probably not have survived. Won't go into details so don't ask. But agree with putting pressure on formula companies to improve their products - and bottle companies to focus on the plastics they use.

see, there, the timing.

I/we have no control over the timing. People have to behave maturely enough to give and take with things none of us have not control over, like timing in order to have a discourse. The defensiveness of saying well I wish you didn't show me the research just now, it hurts my feelings.

Like when would be a perfect time to hear that your child has been a little 'sh*t' in school, if you excuse the frivolous comparison.

Does this all come from what you THINK I said in my first post? How could I possibly think that anecdotes could disprove scientific research? I deliberately did NOT describe the anecdotes as 'evidence' - check if you have nothing else to do. There is no devout belief that a few personal experiences overturn science. This is not a personal faith - I was answering the OP which asked whether breast milk is a cure-all. I am perfectly entitled to use instances from my own life over research papers.

pulls up chair for SPB

The defensiveness of saying "well I wish you didn't show me the research just now, it hurts my feelings." is telling me to patronise you!

I don't mean when two posts overlap obviously.

Luckily my children are paragons of virtue at school and only behave like little sh*ts at home.

Maybe I misunderstood
but think all the stuff about IQ and allergies etc is used to give formula feeding mothers a massive guilt trip by the breastfeeding mafia.
So are you implying it's true or false? To me that reads that you think it's made up / exaggerated.
No, I have nothing better to do.

Can you please all stop talking about sht, DS has a runny bum - I'm on here to escape the sht!

If you all wanted to talk about shit, you could joined in my paranoid poo thread!

Mrs Bates - I am perfectly entitled to quote Greek mythology over research papers - that does not make it as equally valid.

xx

stop stop stop
my poo cup runneth over

I don't think it's made up but I think there are many factors involved other than breast milk. Most children of mothers concerned enough to have these sorts of debates at all can probably afford to drop a few IQ points - and the value of those is a whole debate in itself. And mothers who aren't bothered aren't likely to care much what we are saying. Likewise likelihood of allergy is affected by more than milk. I am not saying having breast milk doesn't lower the RISK. But I think it is overstated and therefore often misleading.

It's when all the IQ/allergy stuff etc is repeated to people who clearly know about those elements of breast feeding that it sounds bullying. If it's being explained to someone who has no idea it's obviously has a different and more useful point.

I have had people tell me they are 'truly shocked' to see I am giving my baby formula - this was in real life - at a children's party. And then giving me a whole lecture about IQ and allergy etc. And, as per my bloody anecdote, since my three are the first generation to all be able to scoff peanuts, eggs and shellfish with glee it was hard to just nod passively to the science. This was't a one off by the way, but if you breastfeed you are unlikely to encounter that particular brand of prejudice. I would defend anyone's right to breastfeed in public etc so would hope that my right to FF would be championed in the same way. Often not the case.

It is valid to answer the OP with examples from my own life. You can quote Greek mythology if you like but it would be a little odd. Did the Amazons breast feed by the way? Not so much to go round I imagine.

Right I now do have something better to do so am going away to do important things. I'm sure this could all have been resolved more quickly over cocktails.

you offering?
pina colada please, not too much pineapple

By the way re FF - I didn't mean 'championed' so much as just not commented on in a negative way. I am feeding my baby. That is it.

I'll get you a pina colada if we can talk about..oh I don't know...shoes? I'll have a Margarita and plenty of salt.

I agree ot os terrible for people to say they are shocked at you giving your baby formula - what kinds of people were these? And lectured at a children's party about things that you probably know more about anyway must have been a little irritating!
One margarita coming up!

I've yet to experience any prejudice while breastfeeding, but I have experienced people justifying themselves to me as to why they didn't. The prevalence of formula feeding and the lack of credence given to the risks means that I feel like I can't express how difficult this has been for me. If someone says they've found it hard so had to ff, they want me to say it was easy, not hear how I do it despite the struggles.
And now that DS is four months, I expect the overt prejudice will start.

And again, this thread is all about the benefits of bf, if you don't want to hear it, you don't need to read it.

wme my DS is 16 months and I've never had any comments or even a look (or maybe I just haven't noticed them...that's fine too)