Can breastfeeding really cure all?

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I am confused by some of the claims made about the benefits of breastfeeding. (Especially the link made to curing cancer on recent program) A friend of mine exclusively breastfed until 6 months and her daughter has all sorts of awful allergies and excema, I also breastfed and my baby caught the same bugs as everyone else. Yes its best for mother and baby, yes its wonderful but I think that some of the advice and information given about the supposed benefits can be exaggerated.

is MN grinding to a halt for anyone else? I might not be back tonight - haven't slunk off I promise!

I really don't understand why "science" is blamed for thalidomide.

I am not following that logic at all. Thalidomide was not adequately tested by the drugs companies before it was released. after the birth defects were discovered, the law was changed as a result in many countries to ensure that drugs companies could not take these risks for commercial reasons again.
why does "science" get the blame??

Turniphead, the research on obesity has moved on a lot in the more than 10 years since that study was done.

It's no longer controversial to say that not breastfeeding increases the risk of obesity - we have several studies which come to that conclusion.

harpsi I know very little about it but presumably it is a chemical, as (conversely) are many lifesaving drugs

No the hostility was in the real world. I accept what StealthPB is saying about the two methods not being equal but there are some benefits to formula feeding too. And, whisper it, some risks attached to breastfeeding. It's not unheard of for a baby to become sensitized to potentially allergenic foods through the mother's breastmilk. I have a close friend whose first child was allergic to all milk - her mother's included. Luckily science diagnosed her and thanks to soya formula she is now fine. In most cases breastmilk is best. But not always. A little balance is all I was offering.

I try very hard to be measured, evidence-based and courteous in my posts on breastfeeding, as do most people here. I see very little 'belligerence' or 'fanaticism' - where do you see it, MrsBates?

And Harpsi is right - it wasn't 'science' or 'research' to blame for thalidomide, but a lack of both. Ditto the Wakefield/MMR stuff.

MrsBates, yes, susceptible babies can become sensitised to some foodstuffs through their mothers' milk - they are far, far more likely to be intolerant to the much more allergenic cows milk proteins in formula. Ditto those very, very rare babies born with congenital lactose intolerance or some other rare metabolic condition that means they cannot tolerate milk of any kind, even breastmilk (soya milk is not a milk).

I don't see why this has to be whispered about!!

Breastmilk, from a breast, especially if it's from the same species as the one drinking it, is pretty magical. But, then, I think the human body, and biology and chemistry is pretty magical.

That kinda thing floats my boat, you know.

Nothing can match the beauty and cleverness of nature and evolution. Not a thing.

Thanks for the info re text book terminology. My reading matter is wildly frivolous. Still, I hope you're not suggesting that my comments have no part in a 'serious discussion'. I have no links to useful research to bandy about in an attempt to appear serious but neither was I spending my evening in a bit of fun chat, clearly. I'm off to increase my baby's risk of numerous infections.

Tiktok - well you wouldn't see it would you?

And the word 'fanaticism' wasn't used - so no need for the quotes.

You are courteous and the evidence you present is always interesting. It wasn't directed at you. There are other comments made by other people who are not so well versed in up to date science - or any science at all.

I really am going now. Goodnight.

just read the post about benefits near the beginning, hollow laughter chez the lentileaters, 4 dcs all bf till 2yrs, all have seriously wierd teeth and referred to onsultant level orthodontist....
could be worse I suppose....they might not have any teeth...

MrsBates, sorry, the word you used was 'fundamentalist' (others said 'fanatics') but I think in the context, it's a synonym, don't you?

Of course I didn't mean your comments had no place here - I was explaining that textbook terminology is sometimes used, appropriately, in a serious discussion. As you surely well know.

You use the word 'bandy about' - is that what I am doing with research? Hey....who'd have thunk it?

Also, MrsB - I rather resent the implication that I am somehow unable to see belligerence and fundamentalism, even when it is there. Why, when you agree I am courteous and careful, would I miss belligerence and fundamentalism in others?

Please point to an example of either, or both.

Ta

Back again. At least two others on the opening page have used terms like 'fanatic' when described attitudes to breastfeeding. It isn't just in my imagination. Can't think of exact examples and, in the name of courtesy, am hardly likely to start listing people not even on this thread. Maybe you wouldn't miss it, maybe you have really never come across it. But believe me, there is a world of difference between support and encouragement to carry on breastfeeding and pressure to do so - your success in breastfeeding is likely to colour your view. Both are found here, as everywhere. Your interpretation of what you read re feeding is not likely to be mine since our experiences of it are so different.

To all the breastfeeders who cite science in their discussions of what for me and many others is more of an emotional issue, I wonder, had you been unable to feed for some reason, would you still be as keen on sharing your research. You would still, I imagine, be convinced breastfeeding has more physical health benefits for mother and child but maybe have less of a desire to back it up all the time. Since most breastfeeders are educated middle class women the other choices they make for their children re food, exercise, mental stimulation must have a big impact. My children have never needed antibiotics and are ill much less than I was when I was a (breastfed) child. But all the other good things you can give them as far as nutrition etc goes, they have.

I am not on a side either. I have done both types of feeding still feel a pang when I see a baby being whacked on a breast with ease (yes - I know it was probably hard earned) and for many reasons, not always the same reasons with each child, formula feeding was the best choice. I could have sacrificed my mental health by continuing but felt that would have been of little benefit to my family. There is more than one kind of health and breast feeding is not always the most conducive to preserving it. I know many women who have been much happier and able to enjoy their babies once they have stopped feeding. I have no axe to grind either. Let's all be friends now and get on with what we are all doing which is looking after our children and probably doing a bloody good job.

do you know your comments about bandying about links to research has really pissed me off - slap in the face to the people who try to help like tiktok and hunker
keep living in la la land
no-one is rude to ff-ers on MN. find some links to prove it
parp

"To all the breastfeeders who cite science in their discussions of what for me and many others is more of an emotional issue, I wonder, had you been unable to feed for some reason, would you still be as keen on sharing your research."

I know plenty of people on mn and in rl who haven't had breastfeeding work out, but want to be treated like adults not children. Aitch is one of them, i hope she won't mind me mentioning her, although hopefully bfing is working better for no2 at the moment.
really parp now

MrsBates - you don't know my infant feeding experiences. I am not going to detail them here. In any case, as an experienced breastfeeding counsellor, I don't need you to point out the emotional and mental impact on the health of a mother of her feeding experiences. I use research as a response to questions about it, or in response to assertions that infant feeding doesn't matter, that it makes no difference to health, that you can prove anything with research etc etc etc etc.

Why would I not be keen to 'back it up' - the 'it' being breastfeeding? I hear every day from mothers who want to breastfeed, and who are finding it all a struggle, and fighting unnecessary barriers to it - often from people who tell them not to bother doing it.

Of course no one should feel pressured into starting or continuing to breastfeed, and unhappy breastfeeding or bottle feeding can have a powerful effect on a mother's mental well-being. I don't understand your implied conclusion to this fact, though - that people who 'bandy about' research should not bother because someone might feel bad.

Plenty of women on mumsnet have had enormous struggles over infant feeding, and are adult enough to accept that their experiences should not silence the exchange of knowledge!

I ffed both my dd's (although dd1 had about 6 weeks of expressed milk), and feel guilty every time I sit up with dd1 at night and feel her chest rattling, with her asthmatic night time cough, and feel sick when the doctor says to me that dd2's eczema could have been avoided had I b'fed. It doesn't stop me reading these threads and the research that people link to, the guilt I feel is my guilt at failing to do something that I feel that nearly every woman (with the proper support) should be able to do for their babies.

I am curious, does anyone know, the research that goes into discovering all the benefits of breastmilk, is it for use in the promotion of breastfeeding, or in the hopes of making formula 'closer to breastmilk'(I know, it will never be as good!)?

BTW Stealthpolarbear, I have read several posts on MN that I think are rude to ff'ers, www.mumsnet.com/Talk/1364/503451?pg=3 Sabire's comment on this page sprang to mind. (If I could work out how to cut and paste on my pc I could find some more!)

every time I read these threads it saddens me
I get the feeling that a fair amount of problems/ issues with not breast feeding seem to spring from deeply ingrained beliefs/ ideas/ pre conceptions/ issues long before the babies come along

Looking at how women view themselves and how they view their bodies it does not surprise me it becomes such an emotional issue when it comes to actual breastfeeding, if that makes any sense

"sick when the doctor says to me that dd2's eczema could have been avoided had I b'fed"

well that sounds like misinformation in the other direction - was he/she implying that was a definite??
The general consensus on that thread was that women should be supported whether bf or ff, and nasty comments in either direction are unhelpful. There is always going to be the odd anti-ff comment but these people tend to be corrected quickly. In the same way as bfers get called mafia and "bitty" is bandied about.
I'm not very good at parping am I?

BTW for anyone who's interested DS who is 16mo and bf has his second bad bout of D&V this year. Something else for the scrapbook of anecdotal evidence. Maybe if I'd ffed him he'd have been fine.

StealthPB, thanks for providing a fresh example of aggression for me with responses full of comments about being ANGRY and pissed off and references to 'la la land'. If you had any idea about my life you should be utterly ashamed of yourself. FYI it is not ALL breastfeeders who are thought of as 'mafia'. It is the ones who knowingly try to make formula feeders feel they are doing something wrong, such as Sabire on the thread mentioned above. There are more and if you had to ability to understand how those people make others feel you wouldn't be do dismissive.

Tiktok - would I bother to access this site at all if I thought the 'exchange of knowledge' should be silenced? Isn't that the whole idea behind these things? You imply I'm childish by talking about some people being 'adult enough' etc. Is that your intention?

I'm sure you 'don't need me to point out the emotional and mental impact' etc but I consulted many breast feeding counsellors, some extremely helpful and willing to consider the whole family not just the BF message, and some who seemed to have stopped listening to the individual's situation and be more keen on presenting evidence in a misguided attempt to encourage. Please guard against becoming one of those.

Have spoken to a couple of real world people who have felt bullied by imaginary breast feeding evangelists. I don't think anyone feels that scientific findings shouldn't be used to enlighten and explain. The context is the problem. Sometimes they are thrown into conversations about feeding as a 'there - try and argue with that!' kind of trump card - not by Tiktok - this isn't all directed at an individual who I know helps a lot of mothers. Most women on here absolutely believe breast milk is the best first food for a baby. It isn't that which causes the debate. It's the insensitivity of certain responses to people in trouble trying to feed and chucking more science at mothers who are already well informed about the benefits of breast milk is hardly likely to make them feel better. This is why Tiktok wouldn't use it in that way, but she is not the only person on here.

This thread is about debating the benefits of breastfeeding, not someone looking for support though.

xx

MrsBates when you accuse posters of "bandying about" research what exactly do you mean?
You say it's not tiktok, I assume you will refuse to name names so I can't really argue, however I am angry on behalf of the people who use their expertise and time to try to help and are dismissed with that sort of attitude.

I'm sorry there are aspects of your life that this thread is striking a chord with. I genuinely am. However I don't think anything I have said in this thgread has been a direct attack - I have been exasperated by people's (not just your) ability to dismiss scientfic research and use anecdotal evidence to counter it - that shows lack of understanding IMO.

I don't appreciate being told I should be ashambed of myself. If I had to consider every possible combination of unknown facts before posting then I wouldn't post anything.

Oh and if I have been directly aggressive to you then that is wrong. Please report my post(s).