Extended bf - started night weaning last night, feel dreadful, buck me up?

[phdlife]

Ds is 17m and while I can live with the good nights where he only wants one feed, two is more usual, 3 not uncommon, and when he's teething he just sees me as a giant dummy - and old enough now to start being very cranky indeed if I attempt to stop him chewing/pulling/sucking all frelling night.
With the result that, last week, I ended up with inflamed, permanently tender nips, and resolved to have a go night weaning. (AIBU?)

So we read the Jay Gordon thing and resolved to cuddle ds but not feed him, to start with, between 4 and 6 am. (He usually feeds sometime between 6 and waking at 7.)

Well, he sobbed his little heart out. Utterly devastated. For half an hour solid, then at intervals until it was getting light and finally, feeling like the Worst Mother in the Universe, I let him have a 2-minute suck and he fell straight back to sleep. He then slept - without any more feeds - til 8:45.

So now I feel terrible because I gave in which I guess probably confused him, I'm going to have to do it again (and again and again), and after one night I'm so tired I'm starting to think that hell, 3 feeds a night isn't so bad!

How long before he might get the message? Will he regress soon as the next two molars start hurting? How do you know if you're doing the right thing?

Just fed dd to sleep after stories. Was lovely - I do love bedtimes and am now feeling a bit wretched about having to carry on tonight once 11 o'clock strikes. But also feel no going back now really. I am however thinking I might postpone part two. What dd did last night - falling asleep off the breast - is massive for her and I think to withdraw milk so soon my be too much.

Sorry to hijack your thread phd. Wishing you all good luck.

hugs to you, alittleteapot, that's marvellous!! (hijack, shmijack!) Maybe give her a few more go's at falling asleep off the breast, just so she gets the hang of it?

so happy for you and proud of babyteapot!

Hi Psychobabble, now you know why i'm not keeping up with the creative writing thread very well! if you're not ready to change things, why can't you all be in one bed? we got a super kingsize and it's wonderful.

thanks phd, appreciate your encouragement, and yes, think that's what I'll do.

Haven't read the whole thread but I did it about 19 months. Had cut out her only remaining daytime one a few weeks before to a litlle protest and then went the whole hog. It only took a few nights. Try to keep your spirits up. Incidentally, I had wanted to stop breastfeeding long before this and had chickened out as I found it crueler when dd was younger. She didn't take it quite so badly at this age.

at you creative writing people. I have two - two - lousy chapters to go, to finish my novel, but all this feeding malarky is making me stupid to write. Even for a novel as trashy light-hearted as mine.

but at least I don't have anyone throwing toys at me yet. after he got up and scurried around a bit this morning, ds came back in and woke me with kisses on my ankes

I used Tanya Byron recommendations when my DD was 12 months old. We tried gradual retreat when she was younger and it worked but not after 12 months. Tanya says not to let them cry for more than 30mins on their own, after 5,10,15 mins go in and reassure them but don't pick them up. DH at night would then pick her up and reassure her if she wouldn't sleep after 30mins and put her down and try again. DD was BFing 2-4 times a night at that stage. I did the same for daytime naps. It worked in 2 days/nights, DH didn't get much sleep but she has slept through since then and is now 22 months. She had to learn to settle herself. I hated the crying but liked the 30mins time limit.

Good luck its tough but worth it.

Great that worked for you Tapster. I think Jay Gordon was definitely the right choice for us as co-sleepers. It's really hard but I think it's ok.

So, last night, she woke as usual in the evening, half an hour after bed and then two hours after that at 10pm (which is good going for her.)

Then she woke at midnight again. I fed her then put her down awake and it took an hour this time for her to fall asleep. She did cry but not hard at all and lots of just being cross or just sitting up. If she's been in the least bit desperate I would have given in as I was so tired any excuse really. An hour seems a long time but went quickly and is a 50% cut on the night before.

Then she woke again at quarter to five. I fed her and put her down awake and she cried a bit but not much and grumbled and fell asleep just 7 minutes later! Then woke at 6 and I fed her back to sleep (as allowed by JG) and we both slept till 8.30

She's on good form today. I think yesterday we were both a bit flat and - well - tired. Better today.

Phd, yes I've decided to go easy on the weaning bit, give her a bit more practice on the falling asleep bit and then maybe start cutting lengths of feeds before cutting them out altogether. How's yours going?

ps, phd, a nearly-finished novel - that's well impressive. We've a 15 mins a day pact on the creative writing thread, which needless to say i'm not sticking to at the mo. Maybe you should join in and put that blockbuster to bed! (if you'll pardon the pun )

morning, just thought i'd report on last night for anyone that's interested...

she went to bed a bit late because she had a longer than usual afternoon nap.

Slept from 8.30 - 12.30 - 4 hours - I think that's an evening record.

Woke 12.30am - I fed her and put her down. At first she grumbled and was cross as before but after a while but was crying in more and more of an upset way till an hour when i decided to cave and feed her. (maybe she was genuinely hungry as normally she wuld have fed at least once more by then) At 1.30am I put her down awake again. She gently grabbed at my chest saying "dat" (that) - but not crossly. I shhed her and stroked her head and she was fast asleep within a couple of minutes.

Same again at 4.30 - she woke, I fed, put her down, stroked her. I let her put her hand down my top (don't know if that's really allowed but hey) and she was asleep in moments.

Didn't wake again till 7.

So on paper a pretty good night. I'm seriously tired as I've been finding it difficult to fall asleep after her first waking even once she's dropped off.

Will think more about my plan for tonight. JG wants me to withhold milk but I won't be doing that.

But overall i think we're going in the right direction.

It's really hard work, but not traumatic.

Wow, SO impressed with you both!! I stuffed it all up for us last night, fell asleep while he was feeding so I guess he did too. Have also been having trouble sleeping so way more shattered than I should be on ds's performance.

15mins a day is maybe a goal I could manage. Lying awake last night I realised what was hitching me up with this chapter, so if I'm ever free of the ticket-booking process I might get back to it. Would really, really like to finish before we go. Feel it might never happen otherwise!

Hello - would like to join you.

DS is 20 mths and I don't know how to break the night-time feeding.

He has periods of sleeping through (notably after he had grommits put in at 14mths) and other times will wake for a feed - usually only once in the night and then early (say 6am).

I have NCSS and used it for DS1 but with DS2 I can't seem to crack it.

DS2 has never gone to sleep on the breast, he was a reflux baby and always has his dummy after a bf.

Goes down in the evening without a bf and for naps too.

But last night for example I tried to refuse to bf him at 2am and he threw a complete tantrum.

I fed him in the end but he wanted more and when I couldn't take it anymore DH took him to the spareroom and cuddled him in there while he roared for 30mins.

He eventually went back to bed with dummy and slept til 8am.

Would love to crack this because I work FT and am knackered and ready to give up bf.

Hi, I am reading this thread with interest. My DS is 16 mo and he sounds very similar to your babies, phdlife and alittleteapot. He wakes in the evenings and always just before I go to bed, which is when I scoop him up and we co-sleep, where he feeds on and off during the night.

At the moment he is teething (the dreaded molars, which are taking an age to come through) so I am the human dummy. His habit of playing with my other nipple while he feeds is starting to get very annoying/painful as well!

I've been in 2 minds as to whether to wait for him to get better at sleeping in the evening or give him a gentle nudge in the right direction. He has never slept through (or even close to it tbh), which is not in itself a problem, but at the moment DH has been in the spare bedroom as we can't all sleep comfortably in the same bed, and I want my hubbie back in my bed!

We've done aspects of NCSS in the past, some of which have worked I think.

I had never heard of this Jay Gordon stuff before this thread so going to have a read of this, and will watch your progress with interest!

Well I don't want to speak too soon, but I do think this is working.

Last night:

Bed 8.45 (late cos v long nap in afternoon)

Awake 11.45 (3 hours - again an exceptional long run)
Fed for 3 mins, put down. She complained and tried to grab my chest. I allowed her to put hand down my top. She went to sleep. Literally within about 2 or 3 mins.

Awake 2am. As above

Awake 4.30. As above but didn't need hand down top but did need to be cuddling very close.

Awake 7.30 VERY happy and chirpy.

So my plan going forward is to gradually reduce feeds, and see how it goes. But I'm very very proud of her.

To others considering this, I'd urge you not to attempt it when things are really bad, which is probably when they most need you ie molars etc, but when things are actually in a good patch. It's easy not to then because you think things are going to sort themselves out, but actually it's a good time because it acts as a gentle nudge.

ps but then again i also think it's all about knowing your own child, and feeling your way. what i realise having done this is that starting it doesn't mean you have to finish it. try different things and if it feels uncomfortable or wrong, just stop.

alittleteapot

terrible night with premolars = three feeds and a big tantrum when I popped him off after he started chewing (my poor left nip). Didn't help that I'd been lying awake for 1.5hrs before he started either. Think we are going to have to wait til these next couple of teeth are through, he's just miserable with it.

Sounds like its going well so far alittleteapot, keep us posted.

I was thinking of holding off until these molars are through and your post confirmed to me I should do this. Wish they wouldn't take so long though, it feels like months we have been going through this!

Sorry phd it's not going well for you. Sounds like he's uncomfortable at the mo. DD has four molars now so think she's in a good place on that score. Also, who knows, tonight might be a disaster.

Also, Preggers, meant to say before I know what you mean about nipple twidling. It's horrible! And seemingly impossible to deter. I wonder why they do it? Are they warming it up for the next feed?

Can you not grab your LO's hand to stop them?

I put DS' hand in mouth to stop any wandering hands!

Do you not feed both sides then?

We had a good night - in fact perfect I would say - pitter patter of DS arriving at 6am, feed in bed and then he took himself off to bed til 7.30ish.

So how come he CAN do it sometimes, but not others????

Haventslept, I try grabbing his hand and he gets very cross, pushing my hand away and scrabbling at me. I hold the hand down and he wriggles and pushes me away and then grabs hold again! I pull my top down and he just pushes it back up again! He is extremely persistent!!

He's just twiddling idly with the nipple rather than anything else, its just a (rather annoying) habit he has. We do feed both sides and whichever side is free he twiddles the other!

I'm going to give the hand in mouth a go though tonight. Thanks for the tip.

OR, sew a large knobby button on the outside of your pj's!

ds's annoying feeding habit is to push the back of his hands against the underside of my breast. This would pull it out of his mouth, so he hangs on very tightly and it is an absolute circus if I try to get him to stop. [sore nips emoticon]

Ha ha, where do they get these habits from? As well as the twiddling my DS's latest thing is to let the nipple almost fall out of his mouth but just hold the end delicately between his teeth whilst grinning up at me as if to say 'look at me, pretty clever huh?'. He then sucks it back in as if nothing happened when I make a move to pull him off. Arrrggggghhhh!

oh yeah, we get that a LOT.

monkeys!!