Advice on "late" weaning

[munchbunch]

DD is now 17 weeks, gaining good weight and still exclusively bf. Since she has mild eczema and dh is allergic, am keen to bf for 6 months and then wean, provided obviously she doesn't look like she wants to be weaned before then. But I seem to be the odd one out with almost everyone I know (including GF!) many of whom started weaning at under 4m . In fact, I saw the health visitor yesterday and she was encouraging me to wean now. Does anyone have any advice on timing? And if I exclusively bf till 6m will this make weaning more difficult?

If your baby is still happy and gaining weight well I would tend to agree with you. imho there is a lot of pressure (mainly from other mums or grandparents)to wean unnecessarily early and if you choose to wait then, given the history, I would have thought the HV should support you.

You may find that your baby's behaviour changes in the meantime (waking more often, less settled after a fed...)which will give you a cue.

hth

LizS

Munchbunch, babies who are developing and growing on excl bf do not need anything else for six months.

For WHO statements, go here: www.who.int/nut/
and here: www.who.int/inf-pr-2001/en/note2001-07.html

Example:
?The Expert Consultation recommends exclusive breastfeeding for 6 months, with introduction of complementary foods and continued breastfeeding thereafter. This recommendation applies to populations. The Expert Consultation recognizes that some mothers will be unable to, or choose not to, follow this recommendation. These mothers should also be supported to optimize their infants? nutrition.?

And our DoH agrees :

www.doh.gov.uk/sacn/sacn0107.pdf

The Govt?s scientific committee agreed with WHO that:
"there is sufficient scientific evidence that exclusive breastfeeding for 6
months is nutritionally adequate. "

Sorry can't do links!

There is no evidence that 6 mths means more difficult weaning, and bags of evidence that excl bf to six months reduces the risk of atopy (asthma and eczema).

Tell your HV to read the literature : )

Munchbunch, take your lead from your baby. My ds is 17.5 wks and I started to wean at 15 weeks because he wanted more than bf and was waking every 2 hrs at night plus unhappy after feeds in the day. I have a 2.3 yo also so bf non-stop is simply not possible. I read as much as I could about weaning as I really wanted to try to wait until 4 mths but I must say he is so much happier now. I had left it till 4 mths with dd, but
had already introduced some formula feeds, which in hindsight I wish I hadn't. DS won't suck from anything is not is a human breast - trys dh's now and then if mum's not about. We have no allergies that I know of on either side so I was fairly happy to start weaning early. He was a 8lb 7oz baby who is now 15lb 14oz as of last Monday. People give their opinions but you know your baby both mum and sister have raised eyebrows at me. GF suggested pure organic baby rice and pear so that is what I have given him, although I am not a GF mum ordinarily. I think if you can exclusively bf till 6 mths that is brilliant and you should be encouraged in this. Most objections I have read have been to early weaning not late weaning.

Munchbunch-hang on in there and go with your original feelings. All the literature I've read lately about allergies/food intolerances suggest leaving weaning til 6months. I stuck it out til ds2 was 20 weeks (exclu bf up til then), but weight gain slowed considerably and I gave in. ds1 was weaned at 16weeks but suffered from eczema (cows milk, bananas and sweetcorn intolerance) really badly for several months til I excluded the right food substances, whereas ds2 hasnt had any problem at all. He's also fed much more enthusiastically and hasnt had any problems moving onto more solid food. He's now 9.5mo and eats the same food as his brother (27mo) no mashing required and he only has 2 teeth. Not bad in my opinion.

I exclusviely breastfeed my baby and worked full time (I went back to work when dd was 3 months ) until she was five months and three weeks. Then all she had was lots of EBM and baby rice (only because she was really hungrey and waking up in the night and because I am a teacher and I couldn't do a good job being so tired)till she was seven months...and my HV encorged me to do what I wanted. AND I wanted to exclusively bf for the same reasons as you....so it can be done. She is now 8 months and three weeks and fine, happy and chubby AND eating everything in sight!

opps I maeat to put in a sad face and put in a happy face...sorry! ):

By weaning, do you mean starting solids? That could be what your HV meant when she used the term weaning - I certainly hope so! I agree with tiktok about exclusive bf as long as possible ("exclusive bf" means simply not introducing formula, as opposed to not giving solids). So you can continue bf'ing and introduce solids as well (actually you can mix up the baby rice with breastmilk). My dd also has eczema, and I introduced solids at around 6 months, despite pressure from my dmil in particular. (I also continued to exclusively bf her to 13 months.) If your baby is gaining weight, feeding well and is happy, your breastmilk is definitely all she needs at the moment.

Babies have a reflex where they push their tongue forward (which actually assists establishment of bf'ing), and until this reflex disappears of it's own accord, you will find babies will push food out of their mouths anyway. Try her when you feel ready, but don't feel it means the end of bf'ing! HTH.

Mollipops, exclusive breastfeeding does mean not introducing solids, or formula, or juice...anything but breast, really. Is that what you meant?

My children have all been completely different.
Dd1 was weaned at 12 weeks, dd2 at 17 weeks, dd3 at 14 weeks - she was absolutely starving by then, but the received wisdom was that you should wait till at least 16 weeks, but we couldn't hang on any longer. My HV said that much of the research on early weaning was conducted in a part of the country where it is common to wean with bread soaked in sweet tea, and it was therefore no suprise that it showed later problems. DS, a big strong boy with hands like shovels, wasn't weaned till 24 weeks when I
decided that really he should start on solids. The good thing about later weaning is that you can give them a far greater variety of foods. Liquidised Sunday lunch was soon Ds's favourite meal.
What I'm trying to say, is if your baby is happy and contented carry on as you are. She will soon let you know when she's hungry, and remember they are all individuals and should be treated as such.

I had every intention of waiting until dd was 6 months until introducing solids. But at 23 weeks she was grabbing my food and trying to eat, basically she just looked so interested in food that we gave her some (baby rice, I think). She had doubled in weight by that time (from 8lb 6oz to 16lb 13oz) when we introduced food so I was pleased about that. I did it very haphazardly - some days 1 meal, some days 2 other days none and it wasn't until she was about 7 months that I started to reguarly give her breakfast, dinner and tea. She has a very healthy appetite, enjoys her food and will eat pretty much anything (she is now 9.5 months) so introducing food later was no problem for her. She was exclusively bf and is still bf on demand.
I would do what you want to do and ignore everyone elses advice. As you said your dd is gaining good weight.

I too had every intention of making the 6-moth mark, but at 24 weeks DS was no longer contented after a feed, so it seemed the right time to introduce the baby rice! I ignored 'signs' like him putting his hands in his mouth or looking at food, as he used to put his hands in his mouth all the time whether hungry or not and would grab stuff off plates just because it was in reach!! I'm glad that I waited until there was a clear sign that DS needed more, rather than going by a fixed timetable.

One thing that I did find difficult as a fist time and rather unconfident mum, was that when I was just starting DS on solids, all his contemporaries who were on solids from 16 weeks were miles ahead of him - eating three meals a day etc etc I felt that I had missed out on being part of the group going through first solids stage, and felt a bit isolated when I was going through it.

Hope all goes well.

Munchbunch - even as a breastfeeding midwife I was hassled by my health visitor to start solids before 6 months. However, I was determined not to do so. I was totally confident in my body's ability to feed my baby. I have to admit she was my fourth and the earliest I introduced solids with the others was 23weeks, 20 weeks and 24 weeks. With that experience though I knew that starting solids is not always the answer to night waking or frequent feeds. Each time my dd fed frequently i knew she was boosting my supply and that she was getting what she needed. Her weight gain dropped off but I think we are far too obsessed about weight. Because i knew shw was not going to get solids before 6 months come hell or high water I was never in a quandry. You have to be prepared to feed really frequently at times though. That was never a problem for me because I enjoyed it so much. I was also working part-time. She is the only one of my children not to have had any skin problems or serious illnesses.

Just thought I'd put in a good word for my health visitor as they generally seem to get quite a bad press in this area - sounds like lots of them deserve it though! Like Munchbunch's dd my ds (13 weeks) also has mild excema but in his case hv herself has advised me to wait until 6m before introducing solids.

Munchbunch - I'm going to try to stick with this advice if possible so maybe we can give each other a bit of moral support. I might need some when MIL gives such helpful breastfeeding related comments as "it must be boring for you to be eating all the time"(directed at ds but probably applies more to me!) and "oh I gave mine tastes of yoghurt and fruit at about 8 weeks - it stops them being fussy eaters" hmmmmm

Thanks all for the really positive advice and apologies to all teh HVs out there - wasn't trying to have a dig! It just seems all the advice I've had from the medical profession is rather "generic" and tailored to what is perceived as the "norm" with anything else seen as odd.

Mears - sounds great and am really reassured

Croak - happy to give support. I know what you mean re MILs and indeed anyone else of that generation (!). They seem to think I've turned into some quaint hippy and will start knitting my own yoghurt or something. And don't get them started on my recent thoughts of changing to reusable nappies....Although ALL my friends have weaned early, including one who started her little one on smoked salmon...

I am planning to wean dd2 (nearly 16 weeks) in about a month depending on how she goes. But dp decided to give her a spoonful of apple crumble and icecream on Sunday as she was showing so much interest

She loved it BTW.

My fave too - obviously a girl with good taste!

munchbunch - if you look under the breastfeeding thread for the topic called ...

Exclusive Breastfeeding - does size matter?

... you will find a long discussion about exclusive b/f to 6 months. As you will see I managed it.

I would certainly ignore the HV advice and go for 6 months particularly if your dd has eczema.

Once I started solids I avoided wheat for longer too till around 8 months and I've not yet given her any dairy (she is now 9.5 months) although she does have a little margarine. She has no signs of skin problems (my ds has slight eczema on his legs and he was weaned a bit earlier, aruond 5 months and had wheat/dairy earlier).

Looking back the last month was hard ie 5-6 months as she was getting hungry by then but in some ways it worked fine as we were on holiday when she turned 5 months and it was easier just to keep giving her breastfeeds. As it turned out her feeding settled down and she was managing fine on just breastmilk on the days running up to the 6 month mark.

As for it making weaning more difficult? No it was absolutely no difference at all.

Good luck

forest - when was your baby born - I noticed our dd's seem to be about the same age?

Eulalia - dd was born on April 15th. I had also noticed our babies seem a similar age.
I take it from your last message your dd is eating well.

Forest - my dd is the next day - 16th April and yes she is eating well thanks.

Well, I cracked and gave dd2 baby rice mixed with breastmilk today (she's 16 weeks on Saturday). Now I feel like a bit of a failure for not waiting longer. Stupid, isn't it. But she was making such obvious signs, going mad everytime I ate anything, chewing hands incessantly and although still sleeping well at night had begun to be unsatisfied after feeds. She scoffed down the puny 2 teaspoons with relish, smiling broadly the whole time - so she obviously feels I did the right thing. The question is, have I now condemned her to a life of allergy and ecxema?

Enid - I see no reason to think of yourself as a failure. IMO every baby is different & you need to do what suits you. I also 'cracked' last week - when ds2 was 14 1/2 weeks. After sleeping through for the last 6 weeks he started waking up every 3-4 hours as he was hungry. He was also unsatisfied in the daytime too. I've started off just on the baby rice, which he sometimes takes & sometimes doesn't, but he seems to be happier, & is sleeping for longer stretches again at night. I'm waiting until he's 16 weeks (tomorrow!)before giving him any pureed veg. etc. just to be on the cautious side, but I don't feel guilty at all about having given him baby rice by this stage.

I did the same with ds1, as he was also hungry before 16 weeks, and so far (he's 2 1/4) he's not had any allergies or ecxema.

Remember Enid - chewing hands is not a sign of hunger - babies 'feel' with their mouths at this age. I do not think you can worry yourself about asthma/ eczema. Baby rice is pretty bland. You do not need to give it every day either. I would just not rush into giving her 3 meals a day. The balance has to be struck in what makes you confident and happy. Feeding frequently will increase your supply and she will settle again. However, if you find that is too much for you, and you are not confident that you are not starving her, then you are doing the right thing.
Hope you understand that last sentence

Oh good Tetley, that makes me feel better.

I do understand what you mean mears, and I KNOW in my heart of hearts that if I had let her bfeed as much as she wants she would probably have settled herself in a couple of days - but I just didnt have the energy. I'm not planning to give 3 meals a day - not even the baby rice everyday, but we'll see how she goes.

Dear all - thanks for advice. Thought you might be interested in this. Just got an NCT newsletter this morning and the main article was about weaning - "starting solids - new guidance says wait until 6 months." There's some quite interesting stuff in the article, backed up by another article by Deborah Jackson (she of Three in a bed and Baby Wisdom.