Do you wish you'd had more support with breastfeeding?

[Amanda3266]

Just a query following on from another thread about growth charts. Current breastfeeding figures are truely appalling?
Did you start to breastfeed and stop earlier than intended? Were you happy with your decision or would you have continued with more support? Who would you like that support to have come from?

Me? I breastfed for just 4 days before giving up. By that time I was crying every time I put DS to the breast. Both nipples red raw and bleeding. It's sad to say that among my "happiest" (if you can call it that) moments in the early days was when I made the decision to bottlefeed. I was so relieved.
Three weeks later I was tearful and depressed and felt that I'd let my DS down by not breastfeeding. I was also really shamefaced about it when seeing my old midwifery colleagues because as a midwife and health visitor I stupidly felt that I "should be able" to breastfeed.
I just wish someone had offered more help. I hired a pump and expressed for several weeks, however, despite knowing this my own HV hardly came near nor by. Just said "Oh you're a health visitor - you can manage" when the sad reality was that I wasn't managing at all.
I think it's a difficult situation as I was living far away from my family. I really could have done with my HV or midwife or a breastfeeding supporter dropping by. Too stressed to think clearly myself it would have helped if someone else had suggested it.

So - that's my beans spilled . How was it for you?

Mandy

BTW, my DS is now a happy, healthy 2 year old and I look back upon those days and laugh (mostly).

Does it make me a bad mother for not wanting to breastfeed at all? I have thought about it so much since I fell pregnant and it just doesn't appeal to me at all. To start with, again, I was born in 1974 and my mum decided not to breastfeed me and it has done me absolutely no harm at all. I am scared and nervous at being a mum for the first time, I want my partner to be involved as much as possible, but in reality, I just don't like the idea of breastfeeding. Am I wrong to feel the way I do? I do feel society dictates that you should breastfeed but surely its my right to decide whats best?

Of course it is your right to decide what is best to do. If you post this under breast and bottle feeding in a start new conversation you will probably find a lot more people respond. I think if you really don't want to do it, then you shouldn't. I di want to do it but was still surprised to find that the thought made me shudder a bit at times. I love it know, I love to be so close to DS. It is a pleasure. If you can I would give it a go but don't put yourself under pressure to do anything with your baby that you don't feel comfortable with. You won't be doing either of you any favours. Good luck!

for me - a bit of mare really. DS (now 11 months) was a bit of a nightmare to feed in general for the first few months - easily taking over an hour per bottle, for between 5 - 8 bottles a day, very sicky.

I tried to exclusively bf for two weeks - I was initially in hospital for 8 days (DS jaundiced and under lights for half that time while trying to establish bfing). Midwives were relatively helpful - but too much inconsistency of advice and groping breasts/nipples without asking first, and not enough access to BFCs! Trying to get any assistance with feeds during shift change was an absolute disaster - could literally take hours to get help. DS was topped up to the gills - I wish someone had had the honesty to tell me that regular 60 ml top ups for a newborn is essentially bottle-feeding anyway!!! Things seemed to be OK at home exclusive BFing for another week, then DS became dehydrated and jaundiced again, and admitted to the children's ward to run tests to exclude any more sinister reason for jaundice after 2 weeks. I met a fab nurse on the children's ward who had previously been a BFC who gave me loads of useful advice on bfing - but I had just lost confidence by then, and was concerned about a recurrence of jaundice so threw in the towel. I had some noble intentions about expressing but just couldn't manage it.

I do think there is insufficient support/info out there - I just was so naive about how difficult bfing could be.

Yes, I do. But milk is gone, baby is 2 and there's not much that I can do about it. Though I tried to revert the "damage" of my "failure" by feeding him just organic, home made food during the first part of his life. (He is an allergen tester). Anyways, I wish I have had more suport, I wish I my HV would have given me better advice and I wish I had known BF advisors existed and were affordable before I stoped BF. I wish somebody have diagnosed me with trush when my nipples hurt that bad, or do soemthing when they bleed so much for 2 weeks that DS vomited my blood. I wish many things would have been different, but the thing I wish the most, it that other mothers who didn't experience my problems or who survived them with some help have been less hard on me. I particularly remember one day when I have spent the morning crying as I couldn't continue breastfeeding and DS was already in bottles. A neighbour came to visit and as soon as she saw the bottle she said to me: is your HV any use?, I breastfeed until 6m and I got trush! (in the worst patronising tone she could manage). I just felt like kicking her out of the house. What's the use of criticising non-breastfeeding mothers when the milk production is gone????

I think there's always a need for more support for bfing mothers. From my own experiences and that of friends and from MN itself, it seems support is very piecemeal and HP's are singing from different songsheets. If only the NHS employed properly trained bf counsellors, (or maybe mw's could gain an extra qualification in bf) I'm sure that would help enormously.

Re the 70's - my first two babies were born in then and bf support was non-existent. I was told to feed for one min on each side, every four hours, increasing to about 5mins. No wonder my poor baby was fading away by the time he was 10days old! And there was the dreaded test weighing which you had to 'pass' or you weren't allowed home. I resorted to soaking ds's bib in water to bump up the result.

Apart from having the luxury of awful meals in bed I don't think the general care then was any better than today, tbh. I laid in bloodstained sheets for four days, because I had the temerity to have a baby over Easter. I couldn't stand it and more-or-less discharged myself after four days with No1 and 5 days with No2. I was warned that it was very dangerous for both me and the baby to act in this way, but if I insisted....

Expectantmum - it does not make you a bad mum to choose to breastfeed. Unfortunately when deciding how to feed a baby, many women have not read any information at all on breastfeeding. In order to make an informed choice, women are given information about breastfeeding because, just as you have said, they have had no experience of it, especially if their mums bottlefed. The book I posted a link to is very easy to read and has all the facts. There are very good reasons why women should be encouraged to breastfeed. However, if once you have read the facts and decide that breastfeeding is not for you, professionals will be happy that you have made an informed choice.

sorry - should have said not to breastfeed in first line

Expectant mum - no you're not a bad mum for not wanting to breastfeed. It's a personal decision and up to you. The main thing is to be happy with your decision and then get on with enjoying your baby.
Despite the problems I had and my regrets about bottlefeeding I have to say I'd think twice about breastfeeding if I had another child simply because the support is not out there.

I've just read all your stories and oh ... it reminds me of mine ... a lot ...
I stayed at the hospital for 5 days (Problem with my bladder)( and asked during all that time some help from the MW. The best that I had was someboddy pushing DS onto my breast and him scraeming and refusing it because he was forced on it.
I could feel he wasn't well, and asked if I could express instead to give " a bit of energy".By that time, I could feel he was getting letargic and just didn't have the energy. Well, yes I could but only if I hand expressed (About 20 minutes of work for not even 10ml of milk ...) DS carried on without a real feed for another 12 hours and finally during the night, one of the MW asked me if they could give formula because he was getting dehydrated !! After that I have never been able to go back to BF as I felt that I had let my son down and I had no idea how to BF.
I am now 27 weeks pregnant and I would like to BF BB2 as DS has had lot of exzema and allergies (Including allergy to milk).
Has one of you try La Leche League ? Did they give you a good support (I am living far away fom family)? Or could recommend another good support group ?

I've had good experiences with local breastfeeding counsellors. I know many areas have drop-ins where you can meet with BFCs - maybe find out when and where yours are, maybe even visit before you have the baby, so you've got support lined up?

I'm sure the LLL are good folks, but I've never dealt with them.

I would have definitely carried on if I had received better and more timely support. I gave up after 8 weeks as dd was losing weight - and I felt gutted and still do - dd is now 18 weeks and blooming - and I am trying to delay weaning as long as I can as some sort of compensation.

The support I had in hospital was fab the midwives gave assistance at any time of night and day. I had a bit of a nightmare forceps delivery and lost nearly 4 pints of blood - I felt crap and dd couldn't be bothered to feed.

After 4 days of not feeding her blood sugar was tested and she was still fine (she was a good birthweight) however when she still couldn't be bothered feeding she was cup fed formula - with my distraught permission.

Eventually after using nipple shields and expressing she started feeding but eventually reverted back to her sleepy habits - and couldn't be bothered to feed. She is now formula fed and very happy - but getting to be a bit of a bruiser, but is back to her birth centile so I am hoping that I am not contributing to her being part of the obesity crisis.

The support in the community was useless and I felt 'steered' to ff - seems to make life easier for midwives and hvs.

Initially, I wasn't even aware of the existence of breastfeeding counsellors - I will definitely want to use one next time - how do you find out where they are ? - my hv couldn't provide me with any info.

I received lots of support from NCT counsellors in person, and from La Leche League over the phone, and from my breastpump agent. Oh, and from my mum (a midwife), my community midwife and my HV. Oh, and the lactation consultant who diagnosed and treated Dd's tongue tie. No lack of individuals, buuuuut ... How come we still struggled so much and came so close to giving up on more occasions than I care to remember?

The support is there, but it is sooooo difficult to achieve continuity of support when bfeeding support is held together by volunteers. In our area the NCT don't come to you - yet in the early days you really need to be seen in the chair/bed that you usually feed in.

The other problem is that you have to be insistent and ask for it. I certainly was not in any position to be assertive after a 26 hour labour and c-section - you need to be pushy when you are exhausted and weepy with your self esteem and self worth at an all-time low. Dh pushed me to telephone, over and again.

Lack of a formal framework and lack of support that is provided as a matter of course are the problems, from my experience.

Annner

Can I join in the 1974 debate?

1974 (& 1972) Mum was desperate to breastfeed me (& bruv). With me she persisted and persisted. She got lots of support from health people who insisted that it was her who was all wrong and made her feel a complete failure for not being able to breastfeed her own children. At one point she was even advised to put my life at risk by lying on top of me while attempting to feed me! 30 years on, in spite of the fact that bruv & I are healthy adults (well, I'm off work with AND, but apart from that ...), she still feels excessive guilt from the people who were supposedly there to support her.

2003. I admit that I didn't go looking for support too widely - cos I didn't want a 30 year hang-up like my Mum! So I only used my midwives for the statutory 10 days & then my hvs. I also spoke to friends who I trust & who had breastfed. But all the support I had told me that breastfeeding is painful. So I put up with the pain. MWs watched me latch on and said "oh, he's latching on fine, breastfeeding is just painful, you know." So on day 11 I stopped because I figured I'd just given birth which had hurt nowhere near as much as this, and I wanted to have some quality to my life - to be able to have a shower, walk up stairs or cuddle my baby - all of which were way too painful. After giving up I found out that I had thrush & mastitis, but was putting up with it because I'd been told it was painful & I just had to suffer. I'm so glad I only went 11 days inflicting no cuddles but lots of pink lumpy milk on my son (no-one told me breastmilk is not meant to be pink and lumpy, in fact my mum, who had never seen a drop of breastmilk in her life, was surprised too!).

For me the best support I could have got would have been from someone who wanted the best for me and me only. Nothing to do with "health benefits for ds", nothing to do with "breast is best". I knew all that, but what I needed was for someone to actually ask me questions, get me to describe the pain and talk about it. Then we might have discovered that I was putting up with too much and got me medical attention sooner - and I might have been able to breastfeed longer.

I made absolutely the right decision for me & ds giving up after 11 days, and no-one will ever convince me otherwise. But I do think I will have a very different approach this time (for example, I will punch anyone who tells me that I just have to put up with the pain.)

I did feel that consistency of support was the most important, and the hardest to get. But the difficulty is that bf is a conversation between two individuals, so I'm really not sure there is a step-by-step procedure that would work with everybody. I agree a visit from a bf counsellor in the days after the birth would be superb - perhaps replacing one of the mw visits. Also some support by hospital staff for their own services - so lucky to have given birth in the JR at Oxford which has a wonderful bf clinic 2 x a week, but nobody suggested that I should hang on in hospital for 24 more hours in order to take advantage of it, despite having constant problems with latching on. Only one staff member I met said that she had visited the bf clinic to find out more, and she seemed to think she deserved some sort of medal for doing so despite the fact it was approx 20 yards from her normal workplace. But fair enough, it was a good thing for her to do.

Next time I will: have all bf support phone numbers ready by the phone before birth (I'm doing a card for my sister who's due soon with them on - no pressure, sis) - move into a separate bed with the new baby so that we can work on it together without waking dh - have a serious talk with my mum and mil beforehand with up-to-date literature etc and preferably a bf counsellor too, so that they don't panic as/when the babe doesn't gain precisely 100g per week or I only use one breast per feed.

right, that should kill the thread....

Mandy - it's terrible that people think you should be able to do everything just because you are an HV ! Every mother needs support, especially with their first child.

Yes, the NCT people were excellent and they spent a whole 2-hour session in their antenatal classes showing us how to put a baby doll to the breast, but nothing beats the real thing, eh ? So I was lucky I knew all about "latching" baby on, but that was it.

I ended up taking my beautiful boy home just a few hours after birth and neither he or I could get him to actually drink any colostrum or milk for 4 awful, depressing, screaming from hunger days. He could latch on ok and I didn't get bloody, torn nipples (see below re. Lansinoh ointment), but he didn't actually suck and so couldn't drink properly.

No one tells you this in BF classes: "baby may latch on, but he may not know HOW to suck". That was our problem. By day 4, poor, hungry DS, finally got enough of a latch and suck method sorted out to drink. Luckily, we also got help from a friend who had BF both her sons and was an expert breast-feeder. Nothing beats having someone sit next to you and show you with a REAL boob and a REAL baby how to BF !!

I love the NCT, they do great work. But they didn't put enough emphasis on "contingency" matters when things go wrong, i.e. expressing and cup feeding which with hindsight makes me quite angry. Despite the fact that my milk didn't actually "come in" properly til day 4, I am still upset that a BF counsellor didn't tell me over the phone that I could express and cup feed. I only found out this method (from the internet - long live the internet !!) months after DS was born. This is exactly what I did when he had a sort throat and mouth aged 3 months and he found it too painful to suck. I expressed and cup fed him for a whole week. This is so important and women who don't have enough info. about expressing only end up giving up BF altogether. This can be avoided.

I have something to say about Lansinoh ointment. It is the most amasing product (available at Boots and Mothercare) and all BF mothers should be told to go and get a tube of it when pregnant and start putting it on their nipples in the last weeks of pregnancy to keep their nipples soft and continue to use it as long as they need to while BF. Even with a fantastic latch metod, you can feel very sore in the first few weeks simply because baby wants to feed ALL day and ALL night as my DS did. Once he knew what to do, he wouldn't let go of my nipples ! Lansinoh helped me with sore nipples and I still use it every now and then (8 months on) just to keep my nipples supple.

HunkerMunker - you are spot on. I think I will be joining LLL or another BF organisation soon, instead of just preaching on this website ! Good for you for writing to your MP ! I have decided not to join the NCT because I have found out that they accept financial support from formula companies. I have also started to boycott products made by companies (such as Nestle) that try to force poor, often illitrate mothers in Developing Countries to give their babies formula milk. I fell very strongly about this one.

What - karaj!!!!!! NCT certainly does not take money from formula companies!!!!! Where did you hear this?

I don't know why the counsellor did not tell you about expressing - this would be standard to tell a mother with a 4 day old who had not yet fed.....sorry you were let down here.

Tiktok - there was an issue about NCT receiving fianacial support from Tescos for parents information leaflets. Tesco at the time manufactured formula milk and it actually ended up with the NCT disbanding in Ayrshire I believe.

This is so incorrect, mears.....please let me tell you what happened, some eight years ago.

Sainsbury's had an own brand formula milk at that time (they do so no longer). They were not manufacturers but this certainly was 'their milk' in retail terms. There was indeed a huge row about it in NCT because the then chief exec proposed getting sponsorship from Sainsbury's. Many people resigned. NCT breastfeeding in Scotlan almost totally disappeared. We lost many tutors, Even now, NCT numbers of bfcs and tutors are about two thirds of what they then. We did not take the money, however. As a result policies have tightened and we have never come close to taking any money from milk manufacturers.

Nothing to do with Tesco. Nothing to do with leaflets. Nothing to do with anything more recent than eight years ago.

karaj, thanks to MN I had the Lansinoh ointment by my bed when DS was born - it is an absolute miracle worker. DS was latching on perfectly but I wasn't noticing that he was slipping off after 5 mins, hence the sore nips.

I remember Mears telling me not to take the cream to hospital and to focus on the latch instead. I felt sooooooooo guilty for using it - I was convinced the MWs would take it from me!

mears, my local nct bfc resigned as a result of that (and fairly recently I think too).

I agree that there is no support for breastfeeding - I received none in hospital and the midwives and hv who visited me in the first 10 days didn't offer to help me at all, despite knowing that I was really struggling with breastfeeding. The only reason I have managed to breastfeed (dd3 is nearly 5 weeks old now) is because I found out about local bfc's (and I can't praise these individuals enough) and spent most of the first 2 weeks visiting them. I was extremely close to giving up and had the pain continued for much longer I probably would have.

Tesco did sponsor a leaflet but as soon as they began to sell their own brand bottles and teats (never formula milk) that sponsorship was stopped. There are probably some old copies in circulation, I inherited a few from an old postholder but as Tiktok says, we have a strict sponsorship policy. Money is never taken from formula companies.

karaj, re your decision to avoid nestle products...Baby Milk Action produce a credit card sized list of common products mande by Nestle.The list will amaze you.I used to buy San Pellegrino mineral water by the cartful. Not anymore..
(They also sell sweet little p/g and b/feeding fridge magnet dolls which always raise a laugh in my house as everyone knows my views on b/feeding!)

Tiktock - here is a link making reference to Tesco. At that time there were no Sainsbury stores in Scotland that I am aware of.
tescos

I was very procative in the breastfeeding initiave at that time and the lay mambers who were members of the NCT resigned over the Tesoo leaflet issue. They then went on to join BFN ) breastfeeding network information)

Highlander - I did indeed say that the latch needs to be correct. However, when nipples are sore the treatment of choice is Lansinoh (or Purelan). We supply it at our unit.

mears, they may well have resigned over the Tesco leaflets (which are no longer published though of course there may be copies still around) but not because NCT was taking money from formula manufacturers, which is what karaj said.

The Tesco leaflets came out, and then Tesco started to sell own brand bottles and teats - not formula. I think there may have been a few resignations over that, I don't know.

It's really important not to muddy the water over this, and to get the facts right. It's a very big thing to accuse an organisation of taking money from formula manufacturers, and I am surprised you are persisting with this. NCT has never taken money from formula manufacturers. I know there are some members who would think it's not a big deal (there are 60,000 members of NCT and they don't all think the same!) but I am 100 per cent certain that it could never happen - we have tight policies on this which would have to be overturned by a constitutional change, and if that happened, all the breastfeeding counsellors are tutors would resign en masse.

It never happened, and it never will.

Tiktok - I am sure you are right that the issue was bottles and teats. I really onlt persisted with this because a number of very good friends I made via NCT felt so disenfranchised that they actually resigned en masse over the Tesco issue. I have to say that it certainly was all those years ago and the regulations will no doubt have been tightened. As it stands, there are no NCT branches in Ayrshire that I am aware of. All lay breastfeeding support is directed to La Leache League or BFN.