What do we think of Kirstie Allsopp's link with SMA?

[hunkermunker]

I am slightly less than utterly unimpressed You?

And yes, of course, it's her decision, yada-yada, but what a shit decision it was.

Kirstie, I knock walls down in your general direction.

Sabire - no I didn't say that at all. This thread (and you) are really boring me but I don't want to be misrepresented. I said that I did not consider the advertising of formula to be any more unethical than the advertising of most other things.
If you've interpreted that as me saying that new mothers should feed their kids Cherry Tango, well good for you.

TikTok I did not say that Kirstie Allsopp not doing her wretched DVD would make FF mothers feel like criminals. My point was that the continued and aggressive campaign to completely ban all advertising of formula treats women who do want to FF as stupid or criminal.

"My point was that the continued and aggressive campaign to completely ban all advertising of formula treats women who do want to FF as stupid or criminal."

can you explain that more clearly, nancy? in what way are women being treated as stupid or criminals? i genuinely don't understand. i ff, and am clever enough to know now that i was sold at in wickedly smart ways when i was absolutely at my most physically and emotionally vulnerable. this resulted in me spending a quid per box more than i ever needed to, on a product that gave my dd the shits for a year. i'd like to have been protected from that, just by having some clear information.

Nancy, you said, "Now they want to ban the advertising of formula for older children - despite it being a feeding choice of millions more women.

You don't think this would make a mother who has chose to FF feel bad? You don't think it's patronising?

I just wish people would stop treating FF mothers as

1. criminals

2. stupid"

You think the continued advertising of formula prevents mothers who ff from feeling bad. You think the call for ethical marketing makes women feel as if they are criminal or stupid - or makes them feel as if they are treated like this.

Now you are saying that's not what you think.

I am confused.

Tiktok,I have both formula fed and breast fed my four DCs.I do not notice any difference in the mental ability,physical or emotional well being between the ones FF and the ones BF.
I think breastfeeding is great if it is successful and if the mother is happy and contented doing it. That is wonderful,and in an ideal world would be like that for everyone.
However,I do not think breastfeeding is the be all and end all of motherhood.There are many many other aspects that are important,and as a paediatric nurse I have seen too many women consumed by guilt because breast feeding did not go smoothly.
I honestly think that a happy mother equala a happy child,and if that means formula then so be it.

FFS.

This is not a debate about the benefits of BF compared to FF; nor is it about the decision to use formula (not directly anyhow)

It is about whether the marketing of formula is ethical.

Why do you (nancy, ST) think that formula advertising aimed at babies under 6 months old is banned?

there you go again tiktok - is that how you run your classes? They must be a laugh a minute.

ST, like many health professionals you fail to recognise that the pain of not bfing often comes from a place entirely internal to the mother. it's not an exterior thing, brought about by reading pro-bfing material, if anything it's completely instinctive.

and this happy mother, happy baby thing. i wasn't happy ffing. does that mean my child was unhappy? or if i'd been suffering from PND? unhappy child again? nice.

Wilfsell,I understand completely why it is banned.Because breast is best,I don't disagree.
What I do disagree with is that by FF mothers are somehow committing some crime against motherhood,and the attituse sometimes expressed on MN that FF is akin to child abuse.
Sorry,not answering the OP's question,I know

it's not because breast is best, it's because formula is worse. by a long, long, long chalk. but no-one's allowed to say that, obviously, in case ffing mums feel bad. or stupid. or criminalised. (or if they don't actually read what people are saying and instead get all hot under the collar about some imagined slight. )

Where, where, where does it ever say on MN that using FF is akin to crimes against motherhood or child abuse? Where on this thread (or the Cow and Gate one) does it say that?

Sorry but that is just paranoia.

I completely understand the 'pain of not breast feeding' I felt very very guilty when Ds,my second baby,seemed to find latching on impossible and became dehydrated.That is why I try my best to help mothers on the ward in similar circumstances continue breast feeding.
I just dislike the flip side of the breast feeding coin,that formula is the devil's milk.

and how on EARTH were you comforted under those ghastly circumstances by something as absurdly pat as 'happy mother, happy baby'? why on earth would you repeat it?

and examples, please, of this devil's milk stuff. it's a serious allegation you're making, i'd love to have a word with the people who are saying it, or anything like it. because formula saved my dd, i feel, it's just that i got conned in the process.

ff is not child abuse
Formula marketing leads to an adverse effect on children in the population as a whole

• Marketing works (I'm sorry, but there really isn't any argument)
• Formula, for all it is the best substitute (the only acceptable substitute) for breast milk, has risks.
• Formula is marketed

What is not to understand?

I was comforted because he was fed from a bottle and got better. I battled my own guilty feelings about formula feeding him because he was better,and happier,and therefore so was I .
My happy mother comment was meant to illustrate my own feelings,no one elses,and I apologise if I have upset anyone.Perhaps I have read too much in to comments about formula feeding. Profuse apologies again.
For what it is worth, I breast fed my third and fourth babies.

Kirstie - I will still be your friend if ever we meet (even more so if you can find me a house in Harrogate with a huge garden for under several million pounds).

Why can't everyone just be happy with their own choice to bf/ff (yes, it is still a choice), and not worry about dvds and adverts if they're really happy with that choice? If you're happy with your chosen method, and your baby is thriving and contented, why does it matter that SMA (or whoever) advertise on TV? Should all adverts be banned in case they influence our decisions? (Of course, some may say yes to this...)

Nancy, I don't think anyone can see where you've answered Tiktok's questions, and sinking to personal attack of her hard work as a BFC is really really abysmal. It smacks of someone cornered because they don't know where to go with their own argument.

Dottoressa, please read the thread before posting such stuff. It has been said, and countered, about a million times already.

I don't have time to read the full thread! (How does anyone with children have the time to read full threads, btw?)
(Wilfsell, are you a man?)

Yep. I'm a bloke. Obv.

ah, then ST, what you describe is 'happy baby, happy mother'. a sentiment which i have a good deal of belief in, as it happens, and it's why i don't really feel guilty about not bfing dd exclusively. i could see she was better off with the formula. sure, i was sad that i didn't manage it, but damned if i'm going to feel guilty.

however, the other way round 'happy mum, happy baby' it is insultingly pat, and i always found it to be. from an HCP, it's really just another way of saying 'i was hoping you'd be off my books by now.'

Sorry, Wilf - just had to check. It was your great interest in breastfeeding that made me wonder if you were really a woman pretending to be a man.

and dottoressa (are you really a doctor btw?) it is Not A Choice for so many, many women.

sorry that was for Dotoressa, but my brain is too addled to keep up so i may have misunderstood...