Why is bfing the last taboo?

[Bumperlicious]

Had a very offensive conversation at work today. To be fair, I walked into it, but I am so sick of bfing being something that you don't talk about in general company.

We have a milk club at work and unusually all the milk had gone today so we (me and a male work colleague) went to see the guy who organises it. He couldn't believe we had got through a six pinter of milk (can you see where this is leading?) and we started a jokey discussion about the viability of a cow to provide us with milk (one our colleagues has lots of livestock and goes on about it all the time) so I jokingly said "I'm still breastfeeding" cue looks of disgust all round.

So me and my colleague went to the shop to get milk, and I said "I can't believe you are all so squeamish, it's ok to have milk made for a cow but when you talk about milk designed for a human you all get funny"

He said "It's just not appropriate to talk about it" I said "what - we happily discuss sperm, piss and poo and vaginas [all conversations that had been has in the team that day] but breastmilk isn't appropriate?" He said "I just don't want to associate milk with it - it's like talking about shit while you are eating" I said it nothing like that. Anyway the discussion continued in this vein until he said "do you want to take this milk back" I said "why are you going somewhere?" he said no, I'm heading straight back or you'll keep talking to me about breastfeeding." I told him I was really offended by his comments and he just went off laughing.

Now this twat is one of those very intelligent people who likes a debate, but only on his terms and only when he is winning. I was really offended at his comments and he just laughed and acted like there was nothing wrong the rest of the day.

I think that

a) if you are going to express an opinion then I am entitled to defend mine
b) his comments were fucking offensive
c) why the fuck shouldn't I talk about breastfeeding? We are a boundaryless team by our own admission, so why the fuck is breastfeeding the last taboo, and why am I supposed to not talk about it in general conversation?

It's attitudes like this that get us the reputation of being bfing 'nazis' or 'mafia' or 'militant' or 'lactivists'. If people weren't so offensive I wouldn't feel the need to defend myself all the time.

Bump. Too long?

I think it's because some men regard breasts as purely sexual and do not like to hear reference to their proper function

The thought of someone squeezing their breast into my cuppa make me a bit yucky too!

Could it possibly have been the joke that made them feel funny, IE human milk in a coffee rather than the 'real issue' of breastfeeding?

Like if you started the discussion on a serious note, such as having an expressing room for mothers that they would have been more professional rather than the discussion starting from a bit of a daft 'crude' joke?

Just a thought

(am totally FOR breastfeeding BTW!)

Agree with princessglitter - but to be fair to your colleague, I think it's also the fact that you were a lactating woman talking about your breasts - if you'd been having a jokey general conversation about bfing then he might have been less uncomfortable.

It would be a bit like the difference between having a joke about erections at work, or having your colleague discuss his own erectile disfunction - the first one would probably not raise an eyebrow, the second one would probably feel much more uncomfortable.

FWIW we are a pretty "boundaryless" team at work but I wouldn't discuss my bfing - not because I think it's taboo but because I don't really want it to be the subject of jokes or conversation in the office, I see it as something private, just as I don't discuss my sex-life at work, even though I might laugh at a sexual innuendo.

That would really piss me off too.

Well done for stating your case though, remember that the fact that he laughed and tried to get you to stop talking about it meant that YOU WON. People like that are incapable of actually saying you are right, they have to try to have the last word by any other means. He might well think again before being so stupid another time.

Well, it is probably quite foreign to him - whereas he would probably regularly deal with sperm/piss/poo/vagnas whatever.

I see your point, but we re allowed to joke about sex and other bodily functions. No bounds of appropriateness there?

When I asked him why I wasn't allowed to talk about bfing he said "well it's all a bit grim isn't it?"

I'd have been offended, too, in your position. I am absolutely astounded that we need legislation to be passed giving bf'ing mothers the right to bf in public - it's wrong on so many levels. Good that the protection will be there, I suppose, but it's appalling that it's needed.

I bf DS1 until age 1, and felt gutted to have to stop when I went back to work, but had many comments from friends and family about it being about time I stopped anyway etc etc. Am furious that the new legislation is likely to only cover bf'ing a baby if 6 months or less - why? That implies that there's something "wrong" with bf'ing an older child, doesn't it?

That is what they are for - think people like your colleague should get over it! And their bf'ing function doesn't preclude the sexual element of breasts, either - it just means that it's sidelined for a while - but for a pretty good cause...

Will stop now, or will get all ranty and "militant"-sounding (I'm not)... But at "It's like talking about shit when you're eating" comment - what an odd man.

I wonder if it's more fundamentally about the "stuff" women produce. I bet he'd baulk at a conversation about menstrual blood. Give it a go tomorrow!

I be hacked off too. Interesting that a throw away comment that you intended to raise a smile raised such hackles. I hate being made to feel militant at something so damn normal as breastfeeding.

I think lenny101 has it about right. Men like that think stuff women produce is disgusting. I thought this today as I practically hid under my desk trying to get a tampon out of my desk drawer and into my bag.

You shouldn't worry about him being offensive. You unsettled him which is actually a result

That whole "breasts only for sex" thing is really bizarre. How many people would give up eating because they use their mouth for kissing (and, er, other sexual activities )?

but I think you have to be sensitive to what people find offensive - I'm not saying bumperlicious's colleague is right or logical for feeling the way he does, but he's clearly uncomfortable with the subject and I don't think he HAS to discuss his colleague's breasts and bodily fluids if that makes him feel uncomfortable.

If this was a man trying to force a conversation about wanking in the office would all be outraged. Instead we are all saying "how rubbish that he didn't want to discuss this".

I don't think forcing the subject on people when it makes them feel uncomfortable is a good way to counter the bfing "nazi" stereotype. For all we know this man might be incredibly pro-bfing and wonderfully supportive of his partner if she gets pregnant and wants to bf - but just not comfortable with making a joke out of the subject.

youngvisiter, how wise.

that's a good point yv, but bumper already said that all other bodily fluids are game topics in her team...so he will happily talk about sperm (and inferring from that, possibly wanking), just not BM.

I also find people being squeamish about human breast milk, yet happily sploshing cow's breastmilk in their tea a bit strange.

well yes, but I'm saying that what he finds offensive and what I find offensive aren't necessarily the same.

For eg just because I'm happy to joke with colleagues about pee, poo, menstrual blood and bm, I might still not want to joke about female masterbation in front of my boss. That's my right to find that uncomfortable and I would be totally entitled to walk away from the subject.

Likewise my boss may be happy to joke about politics but not want to make light of religion because it's a sensitive topic for him - that's his right and I should respect that. He's not going to become more or less religiously tolerant because I insist on retelling Father Ted jokes.

I think what I am saying is that you can't FORCE people to feel comfortable about a subject and ramming it down their throat is likely to have the opposite effect.

If he was being unpleasant to bumperlicious when she was expressing at work, or taking the piss out of her because she had bm leaking on her top, then I would think he was a total cock. But people can MAKE themselves be courteous, they can't make themselves laugh at a subject they don't find funny.

I'd had the same at the school. From people who had breastfed.

I've sat in the school playground feeding DS2 and no-one spoke to me, would wait until I had finished before they came over. Sat at the park near the school and only one woman I know has dared to come talk.

Not one person would mention the words 'breastfeeding' and just say 'feeding him yourself'.

Then I was seen with a tommee tippee closer to nature bottle (I was trying to get DS used to a bottle so I could leave him with his nanna and the school time feed seemed the best to try it).

About 6 of the mothers I speak to daily came over, and started a discussion on these bottles! All of them mentioned how when they needed a break and had got someone else to feed they used these bottles as they were more like what the babies were used to etc.

A conversation full of euphemisms but about breastfeeding.

I found it odd, pleased that everyone had breastfed and were trying to help with advice on how best to get him to take a bottle, but a bit saddened that no-one felt able to discuss such a wondrous thing beforehand.

I can see your point yv, but imo he sounds like a bit of a cock anyway!

VS, I'm sure people are just giving you some privacy when you are BFing, or else they think you want the privacy. Maybe they would have been mortified if someone had spoken to them whilst they were feeding and are steering clear because of that?

But I agree on the veiled references to breastfeeing. Every time I saw my mother-in-law she asked if I was still feeding DD myself. I would make a point of repeating "Am I still breastfeeding?, yes I am thanks"

I do see you point theyoungvisitor, and if I was talking about wanking I would understand, but why is it so disgusting to people? Why might it possibly be offensive? Why should it be such a taboo?

I wouldn't have to think twice about making a joke about eating pizza, or drinking a glass of wine. Say the joke was "I've got a bottle of my daughter's formula in my bag" would it illicit the same reaction? Sure, people might still find it vom inducing but would they say "it's a bit grim" or "it's just not appropriate".

I had another colleague (female) who wouldn't even let me explain to another girl, who'd asked, how expressing worked.

Oh, I haven't made it clear
These women did not only refuse to talk to me whilst feeding (which I can kind of understand) but hadn't spoken about it at all. I was asked by two or three 'are you feeding him your self' and that was it.
Then the bottle conversation, they all made it pretty clear they breastfed, and it was discussed a lot, but only with euphemisms.
I was the only person to use the word 'breast' at any point.
They even said 'well, it looks more like it [a nipple] doesn't it, than normal bottles'
I felt like saying looks more like what? Abreast?!
Had they been idiot men I would have done

lol VS, I think then you can just chalk it up to typical British uptightness about natural bodily functions that can't be openly laughed at.

ie OK to laugh at a big fart, but talking about diahorrea just isn't done.

You fart

yes, he does sound like a cock! And agree the comments about bfing being "a bit grim" were both stupid and offensive.

But I just think there are more important battles to pick - I'm willing to fight to the death (ok, maybe not quite - but I'm willing to get quite hot under the collar) about people's right to bf in public etc. But I can't get that worked up about a silly bloke being a bit uncomfortable around the subject. As long as he doesn't interfere with my right to feed my child I'm not going to force the topic on him.

Lol at diahorrea - of course now we're all supposed to chat about constipation over our morning coffee and pass lactulose around while we lunch, aren't we? I love that advert, it makes me snort my coffee every time I see it.