Still being subjected to the cow and gate ad.

[LookingForwardToSummer]

Grrrrr. It's so annoying! Is there nothing we can do?

I know ybnd

Look, I've had a bad day. I apologise for the 'shit' comment and the 'yawn'. But I have crossed swords with both of you before on these type of threads, and we're all going round the houses aren't we?

The BF lobby are presenting a case for why such ads are a problem; and what happens is people (like you guys I'm afraid) come on and do equally undermining (if not always agressive things) like 'oh god not this old boring chestnut again'...)

I am simply trying to point out that I don't accept individual choice as a good answer to any social problem. We live in an interconnected world, with lots of things that influence that choice. This is a political position of mine; and I fully accept that individualists take a political stance too. I just don't appreciate it when people think there is nothing else to say but 'it's my choice'. That is the bit that is ill-informed, and I'm tired of arguing it. Hence getting a bit cross.

I didnt think you were getting cross Wilf!

Im afraid though I didnt do anything undermiming regardless of what you say, infact Im pretty sure I agreed all I said was there are always threads about this!!!

And yet again how is FF a social problem if you dont mind me asking? I think millions of starving children would be a social problem!

And could you please tell me at which point I was being aggressive? I think it was you who was being aggressive toward Mila! Not otherwise certainly not on my part.

So, what is it that's wanted?

Is it a complete ban on formula milk advertising? If so, how would parents find out about the different available formulal milks?

Or is it that advertising would be okay but there would need to be a detailed breakdown of what the formula contained?

Would it be possible for antenatal clinics to give out a comparison list of breastmilk and formula milks?

I didn't say you were being aggressive YBND. It is a social problem - as many other people on this thread have pointed out, and on many other threads - that the vast majority of women want to breastfeed, and then the vast majority of them end up not doing.

Given that this is a fact; and that there is plenty of evidence of the health benefits of BF; and the fact that other countries manage a much higher BF rate than we do in the UK - if you accept all of these things, how is it NOT a social problem?

FF is the norm.the majority of mums have FF.this ad reflects that majority of mums FF at some point

do you do everything the telly tells you?

or ar you an autonomous human with higher executive functioning?

you have a choice you know

don't like it? switch off!

move on

There is a ban on formula milk advertising (for babies under 6 months). The Cow and Gate ad is invidious because it is for 'follow on' milk masquerading as 'general formula' and thus advertising at mothers with younger children. If they weren't trying to do this, why would they make such challenges to BF in their copy about 'does this baby look unhappy' etc?

But there is a complete ban on formula advertising, for babies under 6 months. The manufacturers get round this by selling and advertising 'follow on milk' which they aim at babies over 6 months. It's illegal to advertise infant formula - you may or may not agree with this, but that is how the law stands at present.

How do you feel the current adverts DO help parents to find out about the different formulas available, juuule? What information did you get from the Cow and Gate ad? Did it give you information to help you to decide whether it would be a good milk to give a baby?

NiceShoes, if advertising was not extremely powerful and successful then I doubt that companies would spend billions of £ on it every year.

Oh niceshoes, bless you. I imagine you manage to cut your own clothing and make up your own fashion style? And decorate your house in a completely unique taste? And grow your own food, make your own bread and manufacture your own cars?

What, you mean you live in a consumer society too? And still, you manage to make some choices that appear to be yours yet funnily enough you end up looking like, living in a house that looks like and simply doing what EVERYONE ELSE does...

And I didn't do any undermining either.

I simply objected to the nasty tone in some posts eg liking formula feeding to smoking in pregnancy.

The last I heard it was a democracy and people can voice discontent or is that not not allowed in anything remotely to do with breast feeding anymore.

I too get sick and tired too. Sick and tired of the gloves off we can be as nasty as we like attitude because we're discussing formula feeding.

As I've said before and I'll say it again the unpleasant aggressive posts do you no service they simply alienate the very people you need to direct your point of view at ie the worn out vulnerable new mums that must take one look at some of these posts and scarper.

YBND I totally agree with your question re formula feeding being a "social problem".

WILF- I think that was what I said annoyed me about it if you go back and look! Also I don't think it's the adverts that are the problem we do have our own minds we can make them up believe it or not.

In my case and many others it's the MW who are the problem providing crappy support(or lack of) that is the social problem not the ads.

I cannot for the life of me see how anybody can be 'shocked' by the ad. I seriously just can't see it....

Both of you are deliberately misreading what I said: it is the lack of BF and BF support that is the social problem, not FF. But FF advertising contributes to this by normalising it.

Thank You Mila. I think on MN although rightly so to lean more toward BF ofcourse but can you imagine if we set up a thread about FF support oh the backlash!!!

you paint a sad bleak world of individuals devoid of passion,volition,choice do you really believe marketing is so pervasive that we all do as we are told?

companies do spend millions marketing a myriad of products to cater to our multi-faceted needs and trying to figure out whether we prefer A or B....or X,Y, Z

my home is a aesthetic masterpiece skillfully chosen from well marketed products

WILF- Do me a favour and read up 2 posts. You just basically repeated what I said!

no of course I don't believe we have no volition. But do you believe we have absolute choice too? Come on, you know that isn't true either... it's somewhere in the midle. To suggest that advertising has no impact is just wrong.

YBND I was responding to Mila not you

I was unaware of this ad until this thread and then I watched it on youtube to find out what the fuss was about.

While the ad doesn't tell you anything about what the formula contains, it does make you aware that Cow&Gate are manufacturers of formula milk. I remember as a first time mum, I was totally unaware of brands of formula milk and so had nothing at all to compare.
I don't know if I watched the same advert as is being shown on tv but the one on youtube has written right across it that follow-on milk is not for babies under 6m.

I think the general assumption is that whatever brand of formula milk, they are all likely to be okay for your baby. Although I do know that people swap brands to find one that suits their baby better.

I still think that the best way to increase bf-ing rates is to provide better support for mothers who want to bf, particularly in the first few weeks.

Definitely time for a FF thread and a BF thread I think!

I cannot believe there are 168 posts on a subject that has arisen from a Cow and Gate Ad.

At the end of the day it is an individual's choice how they feed their children - and respect should be given both ways.

Wilf you said both there is only one of Mila and since I am the only one who agrees with Mila then you must mean me!?!

This is what we were saying hf but apparently if you make the choice of FF then you are part of a social problem whreas if you BF you are lord almighty and wonderful holy mother theresa type !!!

Meant in a humerous way BTW before any1 attcks me with a bottle/breast

Actually Wilself a lot of us are NOT driven by a consumer society to say we all are is incorrect.

As mothers we are constantly bombarded with adverts for toys,junk food,disney world etc. If I was swayed by every advert relating to my kids and what they think I should buy I'd be broke.

Take the cheese string advert, my ds would love me to buy some,never have,never will. I've read enough to know that plain old additive free cheddar is far better(and cheaper)so I stick with what I know to be best.

Anybody breastfeeding with half a brain cell is NOT going to watch an advert and go "oh what a pretty tin, I know I'll ditch the breast feeding". They will do what I do with cheese string and carry on with what they know to be best. You wouldn't ditch breast feeding for an advert so why presume others would?

Having said that I do feel breast feeding support is lacking so feel time would be better spent focusing on that.