I honestly think that the reason so few people I know are breastfeeding is that because the health proffessionals want you to breast feed so badly they..

[AnguaVonUberwald]

Don't tell you how hard it is.

Then when it is hard, people think it must be some fault in them and give up.

I went to NCT antenatal classes and was basically told: its really easy, it doesn't hurt, you just have to get the latch right.

No one mentioned anything like:

My baby wouldn't latch at all at first (we saw several breast feeding councillors (sp), he just wouldn't do it.

I then moved on to nipple shields (not mentioned before hand) which at least allowed him to carry on breast feeding although I then got lots of comments about how I shouldn't use them, they would dry up my milk etc, at least he was feeding.

At six weeks, I managed to get him to latch properly, he then started screaming every evening because he was starving, he was going through a growth spurt and simply not getting enough food. No one tells you what to do about that!

Currently, at 10 weeks, he is once again feeding for hours at a time and screaming in the evenings, I strongly suspect he is not getting enough food and am struggling with what to do.

My point is, no one tells you: There are challanges but you can get through them. Here's some help.

Instead they treat you like children, and think unless they tell you its all easy, you won't do it. Which means people then give up when its not as promised.

i.e. BREAST FEEDING DOES HURT! GETTING THE LATCH RIGHT IS NOT ENOUGH. BUT THATS OK, I AM A GROWNUP AND I CAN TAKE IT FOR MY DS, IT HURTS A LOT LESS NOW THAN IT USED, TO. BUT DON'T PATRONISE ME BY TELLING ME IT WILL NEVER HURT!

Sorry, rant over.

I always suggest heavily pregnant women should get a number for a b/f counsellor in advance and have it handy for those early days. Because you are right, it can be very tough (although not for everyone).

Angua, sorry you have had a hard time!

I am a breastfeeding counsellor with NCT and I can assure you that more must have gone on in your breastfeeding class - there is at least 2 hours, after all!

You say " My baby wouldn't latch at all at first (we saw several breast feeding councillors (sp), he just wouldn't do it."

"This is uncommon - not unknown, but uncommon. Most babies latch just fine, if they are term "and healthy, and if they are enabled to breastfeed by being placed skin to skin with mum, then latching happens...a good class will ensure you know that problems do happen, and there is help available. There is no need for a class to go through in detail every possible problem.

I then moved on to nipple shields (not mentioned before hand) which at least allowed him to carry on breast feeding although I then got lots of comments about how I shouldn't use them, they would dry up my milk etc, at least he was feeding."

Nipple shields are a tool and should not be used without great care - no antenatal class needs to mention them unless the topic comes up as the vast majority of women will not need them. If a mother does need them, then someone postnatally will produce them - but they can affect bf adversely, it's true.

"At six weeks, I managed to get him to latch properly, he then started screaming every evening because he was starving, he was going through a growth spurt and simply not getting enough food. No one tells you what to do about that!" I am getting a bit irritated now What do you want to be told? If your baby is hungry, then feed him, and feeding him often will ensure you make more milk.

"Currently, at 10 weeks, he is once again feeding for hours at a time and screaming in the evenings, I strongly suspect he is not getting enough food and am struggling with what to do." You don't need to do anything - if you think your supply is an issue, then just feed more often, ensuring you use both breasts often, and not sticking to 'one breast only' or scheduled feeds.

"My point is, no one tells you: There are challanges but you can get through them. Here's some help." This will have been covered in your class - if not, let the counsellor know she missed something out!

"i.e. BREAST FEEDING DOES HURT!"

But this is not true - it can sometimes hurt, but it doesn't always at all.

I wrote "This is uncommon - not unknown, but uncommon. Most babies latch just fine, if they are term " - as if it was a quote. It was me talking, sorry for confusion

I absolutely agree with you (although I think the fact that the midwives in the postnatal wards often are too busy - or have no inclination - to help also contributes).

I went to an NHS class and the trotted out the usual 'breast is best' and showed us an inane video of mums saying ' I wanted to breastfeed as it's so important to me to do the best for my baby' etc. We were then given a doll (or in my case a toy dog as there were no more dolls) and shown how to hold it to bf . I put my hand up and asked if they could talk through the problems that people face, what to look out for and how to deal with them as none of my friends had managed to bf beyond 6 weeks and hadn't known how to deal with problems. The mw running it got very huffy and said 'well there won't be any problems if you get the latch right'. Refused to go beyond that so we were back to sticking plastic dolls on our breasts....

... actually I am still bf at 10.5 months but it was thanks to a bf counsellor after DD was born, No-one else from the class that I'm in touch with managed it for any length of time.

Breastfeeding didn't hurt me at all, not once I got the latch right.
Loads of babies scream in the evening. It's so common! And in my experience it has nothing to do with hunger. They like to suck a lot, yes, but they are just unsettled, sometimes over-tired etc. I think breastfeeding makes a lot of women uneasy because you 'can't see what they are getting', so there is a tendancy to blame everything the baby does on breastfeeding.
Bottlefed babies scream in the evening too! I had two screamers and one non-screamer. All breastfed.

surely they should just say: here are some tips to get started, it can be difficult in the first few weeks but then it (suaully) gets easier, here are the people to call if you have problems'

no point in talking to pg women for hours on end about nipple shields when the majority won't need them

then again DS latched on immediatley after birth and we had no major problems. I don't think that's unusual: like borth stories, you tend to hear about the bad things and not the good

the most useful thing I read in the early days was the info on Kellymom about the normal course of breastfeeding. Reassured me that DS was normal if difficult!

I think you're right Effieperine but the problem I saw was that there was no acknowledgement that things were not always easy. I don't think they need a catalogue of problems but a few minutes of 'things can be difficult at first, here's a list of people you should call if there's a problem, let's quickly mention some things you should look out for as it's best to be aware so you can deal with them before they become too much of a problem' e.g. mastitis which appeared not to exist when I mentioned it in the class as it 'wouldn't happen if the latch was right'.

I was lucky in that things were fine for us too save for a sleepy baby who lost a bit of weight at first. I felt very worried about bf before the birth as a direct result of the class because I wanted to do it, knew many people who found it hard and felt that the attitude of the mw indicated that there would not be any help if I was one of those who did have problems. Also if you are having problems and your knowledge about bf only comes from the class you can feel unusual and a failure (as one of my friends from the class did) and this can make you give up.

I'm sorry you're having such a time of it but I don't think people should be told it will hurt!!

I was told by many people it was very difficult, painful etc and it totally put me off.

Luckily after giving birth I couldn't have cared less what happened next so when my (incredibly fab & v supportive) midwife bunged DS on my boob & he took to it straight away I didn't have to make a decision.

I KNOW I am wonderfully lucky as we have had trouble-free feeding but I think the real problem is women not getting enough support once they leave hospital.

In my area formula is often advised by the HV's, I was told to give DS formula just because i was tired one week. If I need any advice &/or encouragement I come here. RL advice for me has been awful, but what about those who don't know where to look for help or have the means to do so .

Why can't you be told, it might hurt at first? I was really surprised at the toe-curling pain when dd first latched on (totally correctly, just nipples not used to being sucked with force ). I bf all night and thankfully, the pain pretty much went quite quickly. But I didn't realise it would hurt so much and if I hadn't been determined of the benefits of colostrum at least for first few days I might have thought i dont really want anymore pain after labouring for so long...

Catz, any antenatal class which doesn't do what you have outlined - ie explains things may not go swimmingly and getting help and support sooner rather than later makes sense - is a poor class.

However, sometimes class members do not take everything in - or they forget.

Good point Umlellala!

To be honest I wasn't told ANYTHING by my midiwfe about BFing at all, but perhaps this is because she assumed I would go to NCT classes, or perhaps I should have asked more questions full stop!

Angua I totally agree with you. Luckily I am one of the last of my group of friends to have a baby and so had heard from them all the things that had gone wrong. Babies not latching, sore and bleeding nipples, mastitis, sitting feeding for hours on end etc etc.

At the BF parts of my ante-natal classes (both NHS and NCT) I mentioned some of these problems and was met with blank faces and told that these problems were very very rare. When I said that all my close friends (6 different people) had had problems of one sort or another they looked thunderstruck. They just couldn't believe it. Which I found a bit odd.

I went into BF thinking it would be difficult but in fact, for me, it was easy. And I think being prepared for the worst (but hoping for the best) helped. The only thing I had was that the letdown was very very uncomfortable but that is easily survivable and passes after a couple of weeks. If I had been expecting it to be painless and a doddle from the word go that in itself could have been enough to put me off.

I agree that potential problems should always be covered in ante-natal classes. Anything else is just not real life for lots of people and can then be enough to put them off as they "must be doing it wrong".

I had a class too but was totally unprepared for the problems I faced. I wish I had been better prepared for the possible problems but all I got was told was if you are doing it right it won't hurt. Well it hurt like hell for weeks! I stuck at it and I am glad that I did but I can understand why some people don't make it. All the women in my class experienced a bit of pain to start with (I was the unlucky one!).

My best advice came from here actually. I am so thankful for the info on moist wound healing that I got from here - it set me on the path to recovery.

I totally, absolutely agree with you.

If I had been told something like 'look the first couple of weeks are likely to be a bit crap, but just hang in there, it will get better' I am sure things would have been a whole lot better.

Instead I was told, its easy, you'll be fine, o its your baby's fault for not latching properly (which was bollocks, it was the thrush and the cracked bleeding nipples etc)

Why is there such a ridiculous consipiracy to pretend that it will all be lovely? Then, if it goes wrong, you are left feeling a miserable failure and more inclined to give up.

I had an experience very similar to sleepycat - I went to an NCT class, read Bestfeeding, hung out on MN and found bfing a piece of (painless) cake.

BUT I was the only one in our class of 5 to do so - and 10m on I'm the only one still feeding .

The best thing I went to was an ante natal BF workshop at the maternit hospialt. In addtion to all the "standard" advice re positioning etc, they also had two mums there who were currently breastfeeding.

One was breast feeding a monster and the other, the same age, was half his size and the mum had had massive difficulites in getting feeding establised, eventually only succeeding through using nipple shields (which dhe went on to use for over 6 months depite many attempts to "wean" her boy off them.

It was really really helpful to see the two extremes and when my ds went on to be a very difficult feeder, with all sorts of problems with slwo weight gain, the "nipple shield" mum was my inspiration: I thought "if she can do it, I can do it".

I went on to return the favour by myself being one of "current breasfeeding mums" at the workshop and apparently I in turn was an inspiration to other mums who had difficulties.

There is no conspiracy. I find it hard to believe a breastfeeding counsellor with NCT would look 'thunder struck' at the idea some women might have problems getting bf going...the reason why women train as bf counsellors is that they know perfectly well, often from their own experience, that women have these problems.

What they are not prepared to do, and what I am not prepared to do, is to spend the time in an antenatal class going through each possible problem and its treatment in detail - boring, instantly forgettable, and just not applicable to the majority of the class.

They need to have confidence that they can do it, that if there are problems and challenges and pain, there is help available...and that getting things comfortable from the start is possible and desirable. Pain does not mean' your baby is doing it wrong' or 'it's your fault' - but it can mean the baby and the mum need help to find an attachment which does not cause pain, and that something should be done about it.

I agree that most Antenatal classes don't cover BF adequately. I went to a special class (3 hours) just on this - and still some of the common problems weren't covered. Again it was just latch latch latch.

And yes that is important - and yes it helped me get out of a few problems. But things like blocked ducts, cluster feeding and anything past teh 1st 6 weeks wasn't covered.

I agree angua. It hurt with all 3 of mine. But second and third time round I knew that after a few weeks it would be OK. It would have been helpful if I'd known that first time round.

I had plenty of help too but nothing stopped it being sore at first.

Yes, I agree with the op, I didn't know there was such a thing as breast refusal so found it hard and upsetting - maybe if I'd been told to expect it or not just to keep trying I would have found it easier or got a counsellor earlier. I know so many people who had problems and gave up, and had been expecting it to be just a natural, easy thing.

The NCT class I went to did cover some of the basic problems such as blocked ducts, mastitis, engorgement etc, but emphasised that you needed to get good help if there were problems.

And I may be wrong, but the antenatal classes aren't supposed to cover past the first 6 weeks - there's postnatal ones that do that (apparently)

I think the reason a lot of people don't breastfeed in the UK is that they set off with an "I'm not going to be able to" idea. I don't live in the UK, I live in a country where there are no bf counsellors (or midwives) or antenatal classes. Yet almost all women breastfeed, because it's an ingrained part of the culture.