I honestly think that the reason so few people I know are breastfeeding is that because the health proffessionals want you to breast feed so badly they..

[AnguaVonUberwald]

Don't tell you how hard it is.

Then when it is hard, people think it must be some fault in them and give up.

I went to NCT antenatal classes and was basically told: its really easy, it doesn't hurt, you just have to get the latch right.

No one mentioned anything like:

My baby wouldn't latch at all at first (we saw several breast feeding councillors (sp), he just wouldn't do it.

I then moved on to nipple shields (not mentioned before hand) which at least allowed him to carry on breast feeding although I then got lots of comments about how I shouldn't use them, they would dry up my milk etc, at least he was feeding.

At six weeks, I managed to get him to latch properly, he then started screaming every evening because he was starving, he was going through a growth spurt and simply not getting enough food. No one tells you what to do about that!

Currently, at 10 weeks, he is once again feeding for hours at a time and screaming in the evenings, I strongly suspect he is not getting enough food and am struggling with what to do.

My point is, no one tells you: There are challanges but you can get through them. Here's some help.

Instead they treat you like children, and think unless they tell you its all easy, you won't do it. Which means people then give up when its not as promised.

i.e. BREAST FEEDING DOES HURT! GETTING THE LATCH RIGHT IS NOT ENOUGH. BUT THATS OK, I AM A GROWNUP AND I CAN TAKE IT FOR MY DS, IT HURTS A LOT LESS NOW THAN IT USED, TO. BUT DON'T PATRONISE ME BY TELLING ME IT WILL NEVER HURT!

Sorry, rant over.

...whereas here ff is the ingrained part of the culture

Tiktok I am sure you are a great BF councillor but I'm sure you will accept that in all things there are people who do the job well and people who don't. It seems to me that some of us have come across people who weren't so good at what they were doing.

The impression I got was that they didn't want to acknowledge that there could be any problems for fear of putting people off. I agree with other posters that it's only common sense to warn people that they may have difficulties. Not that they should go into each and every possible problem but accepting that problems do happen is helpful.

Mind you I also had issues with the fact that we weren't allowed to say "pain" at our NCT classes, when talking about labour and giving birth. We had to say "discomfort". For crying out loud. I mean, labour isn't trapped wind, or a bit of a hurty foot, is it! It's pushing a great big baby out. Pretending that it won't hurt is a bit silly!

Tiktok, I have fed him and fed him and fed him, he is on the breast for hours at a time, and still hungry. I am not feeding to any schedule or trying to deny him food at any time.

Its getting to hte point where I can't leave the house because he is hungry all the time!

This is what I mean, the implication is you must be doing it wrong, well I am doing the best that I can, and I am simply not convinced that my beautiful little boy is getting enough food!

AS for the NCT classes, to be honest, they were all very bad. Pushing HOmebirth to the extend that those of us who wanted hospital births were basically told it would all go wrong because we were going to hospital.

The breastfeedling classes did basically say - it will all be OK. Didn't discuss what to do if your milk was delaying in coming in (happened to a friend of mine who is now formula feeding etc)

I am just trying to say that more discussion of the fact that is can be dificult, and tireing etc, would have made it easier for me and lots of people I know, rather than relentlessly positive messages!

Angua - well done for persevering - I know it can be very hard.

I do know some women are unprepared for bfing to be difficult; but then plenty of women are unprepared, don't go to any classes, and have no problems bfing.

I also know a couple of women who decided during their pregnancies not to bf because they though it would be too hard.

And yes unfortunately it can be painful even if you are doing everything right. My friend has bf her first three babies (including twins!), but even now, with her newborn fourth baby, she says it's painful again.

I think you have a good point, everyone I know who has had a baby has bf or at leaast tried it, and I know a handful of women (maybe two or three) for whom it was easy from the beginning. I know of two women who nearly gave up because of the pain, bleeding nipples, and in one case excruciating thrush, they both stuck with it to their enormous credit, and fed for as long as they wanted. I know one woman who gave up at about 3 weeks because of pain feeding. I had a very fast letdown, but not a brilliant supply, and struggled a LOT with dd1 (mangaged 4 1/2 months) and managed slightly better with dd2 giving up at 7 1/2 months.
I was shocked it was so very hard, because my NCT woman ( I never did specific bf classes) as good as guaranteed it was going to be a delight, and not only that she denied that your breasts change after breastfeeding (not that I care about this, but it is fundamentally untrue!)

I have the same problem, my milk is not enough, I lie in bed next to him and wait for him to wake up and feed him instantly, he sleeps for a max of 40 minutes at a time after feeding for 20-25 mins on each side. It is hard and I am knackered. btw I haven't been out for 2 days and am seriously considering quitting. DS is 5 weeks old and 13 lbs 2 oz at last weigh in. He was 12 lb 5 oz at birth

Chukky - if you paid for a class, or even if you didn't, and the class teacher told you, or even implied, that there are no problems associated with breastfeeding, or that it never hurts, then write a letter of complaint. This would be a BAD class.

I can't comment on the discomfort/pain thing - presumably this came up as a discussion in the class, and the teacher explained why she used one term rather than another. There is room for disagreement here - I would prefer to use the word 'pain', myself, but there is a perfectly respectable idea that the word itself can be swapped for others.

Nosilk, start a new thread, there are lods of people who could give you advice, TikTok is brilliant as a bf counsellor. Sounds like his weight gain is fine though, dunno, can't remember what it's supposed to be!

meant to say Nosilk, your post will get completely lost in here, it's going to kick off!

The only time I have ever had pain while bf was when I had mastitis. Otherwise it has been painless.

Angua - who is implying you must be doing it wrong? Where are they saying this?

I don't think you are doing it wrong! This sounds to me like a baby who loves breastfeeding, and is feeding normally - but with a mum who could do with some help and support to meet his needs and who is taken aback by the intense and very demanding stage her baby is going through.

I don't know how different antenatal classes would help you, to be honest - though if you are really unhappy with what went on, you have to tell them.

Nosnik - yes, start a new thread

no, Fio, pressed "post message" too soon, distracted by ds3 and bfing ds4!

Anyhow, meant to add that I would be interested to know what percentage of people are similar to me i.e fairly painless process and what percentage find it painful and, of those who do find it painful, whether a good reason can be found for the pain.
My cousin bf her dd for 4 months and found every second of it painful. She gave up, never having found a reason or solution ( after hearing symptoms I think it may have been thrush)
I think being told that "X% of women do find it painful and here are the possible reasons and here are phone numbers in case you need help" would certainly be an improvement. I find that here in Ireland, though, the "professionals" vary hugely in their knowledge of bf and a lot are severely lacking. My neighboutr was told to give up bf by her GP when she got mastitis, I was told to carry on.

I remember getting told off royally on a thread for telling the truth about how much b/f hurt me for the first few weeks and months even after I'd seen a b/f counsellor and got dd latched on properly.

According to the poster who ticked me off, by telling my story truthfully i might put other mothers off breastfeeding.

totalmisfit, did you give up or did it eventually get better?

I agree with the OP. In my case, being told it might hurt without there necessarily being anything 'wrong' would have helped immensely in the first few hellish weeks. I nearly gave up on countless occasions because despite 15 midwives and 3 breastfeeding counsellors telling me the latch was fine it was still excruciatingly painful and all anyone would tell me is 'it shouldn't hurt if you're doing it right' which made me feel like a total failure.

I think perhaps the problem is that you do the breastfeeding class before you have the baby. I just couldn't really focus on it out of context if you see what I mean and by that stage was so obssessed by the thought of labour that just couldn't think of anything beyond that. Its hard to discuss problems that might occur if you've never b/f before and I can't really see how it would have helped me for the NCT class to have been full of potential problems I might have. And that's why Mumsnet and all the fab help you get on here (from TikTok and co) is so sodding brilliant. In my mind its not the antenatal classes that are the problem, its all the wretched books that focus on what babies 'should' do that are the problem. Angua - my DD was just the same at that age - the evenings were hell but it did get better. Ring the NCT helpline. Saved me many a time of a desperate evening. You are doing amazing job, hang in there!

angua i had a smiliar experience as you. Looking back I am a bit annoyed I was only told the good stuff, not the hard bits. Mind you, I am the sort of person who would rather know the bad stuff in advance, it doesn't put me off. The pain wasn't so bad but, it was getting DS to latch on (he took 3 miserable weeks) that nearly killed me.

I totally agree with those who say it hurts even if you are getting it right. TBH I don't see how it won't.

If suction was applied to any part of my body for 12 hours a day it would end up hurting for a while, until the area had toughened up a bit. It is not surprising that delicate nipples suffer after the same treatment.

Obviously check that your latch is good because it will help reduce the pain more quickly if you have it right but I think it has to be expected that there will be some pain involved for a short while. Knowing that it might hurt but that it will get better has to be preferable to thinking you are doing something wrong and you might as well give up, surely.

If you don't get any pain at all then that is great of course. Just wish I had been one of those lucky mothers!

Neicie, you are quite right - 12 hours of suction to one part of your body would hurt.

But babies do not get the milk by suction.

Suction has nothing to do with it!

OK if something or somebody latched on to any part of my body it would hurt.

If suction isn't the right word, what is? What is the seal you have to break if you want to take them off the breast?

Absolutely agree with Angua on this. I was told by a well-respected bf consultant that I would probably have no problem bfing after a reduction if I did the usual - skin to skin, constant bfing, etc. I understand why she said it - to make me feel confident about bfing - but this meant I wasn't prepared AT ALL when my DD wouldn't even latch! I wish I'd known about nipple shields when faced with a DD who sucked like a goodun on my finger but screamed blue murder when I tried to latch her on. And if the consultant been a little more realistic, I could have investigated galactologues, lactaids, etc and could even have exclusively bf for a while.

Breastfeeding didn't hurt me - not at all, except when I got the latch wrong with my second (because I'd forgotten that a post-one year old does not latch on like a newborn!). A quick tweak to the technique and it was instantly painless. In fact I would forget I was feeding sometimes. Quite a shock to look down at a little guzzling baby when you've been watching a movie or having a chat!
Why should it always hurt? Does it hurt when you, um, enjoy oral nipple stimulation during sex?