Just sat and bawled my eyes out in the loos at work :(

[HeadFairy]

I really can't seem to keep bfing going, despite killing myself to feed ds in the mornings (or pump if I'm working early), pumping once at work and then killing myself to get home to feed ds in the evenings (or pump if I get home too late) and then doing a dream feed as well my milk supply had dwindled to nothing. The last few days my supply hasn't been enough to satisfy him and I'm getting less and less sleep as I'm trying to fit in more pumping/feeding sessions. For some reason, despite this regime practically killing me I'm desperately sad about the prospect of giving up bfing. It's utterly ridiculous because I've bf for over 8 months now, but I was so determined to get to one year. Please tell me it's all hormonal and the tears will pass.

Hiya stealth, sorry if I frightened you. I knew he wasn't really properly dehydrated cos his behaviour was fine and he was lively and happy, still is, he's chewing my feet as I type! I know it's a bit of paranoia on my behalf, thanks for the reassurance tiktok about the dehydration thing! As for the feeding, I'm so unsure what to do. With my return to work I'm not sure I'll be able to dedicate the amount of time required to up the supply. I had problems like this before when ds was 3 weeks old, stupidly I thought I was over feeding him and I cut down his feeding time and my supply dropped to a trickle in no time. Then I retreated to bed for three days and fed all the time, but now with work I can't do that. The other problem is that every time I do try and feed him he bites so hard I'm worried about doing some damage. As I said he's already drawn blood so it's mega painful to feed now and the amount of feeding I'd have to do to up my supply would be agony.

glad he is OK
Was just panicking because I took DS to the docs when he had D&V and they told me to look out for dehydration - they said when his fontanelle was sunken he was quite bady dehydrated!
As far the feeding goes I don't have any help really except maybe give formula and do night time feeds when you can - when he's sleepy does he bite less?

Thanks for your concern stealth He's just had a good lunch and I've made sure he's had a good drink of some water and juice. He is usually less bitey during his dream feed and if he's sleepy during his bedtime feed. I'll see how he is this evening, I'm quite tempted to give him a couple of ounces of formula first to take the edge off his hunger and then try again to bf him. Hopefully that'll curtail some of the worst biting. I'll have to go carefully though and dollop a load of lansinoh on in the meantime !

Headfairy,

when you're feeding you could try a technique to recondition your letdown reflex? This worked well for me during the last awful nursing strike we had. Deep breathing with a deep in breath but long slow outbreath. On the in breath, close eyes and visualise number 10 moving towards you. On the outbreath, 'blow' it away as slowly as you can. Repeat with 9, 8, going right back to 10 again if you have to. Don't stop until the milk is actually flowing. If you can feed in the same dark quiet space each time this might help also.

According to LLL and Kellymom.com this kind of thing helps because it encourages the sympathetic (?) reflex system (or summat - it's the same thing that kicks in to relax you for other bodily functions that also stops them if you try too hard to make them happen!) to work better: you're concentrating on the counting and relaxation, not going 'oh my god the milk must come soon...' If it works, after a few feeds, your body starts to learn subconsciously that the relaxation/counting is a trigger for letdown.

I hope it helps while you're babymooning...

Headfairy,

Why do your working hours keep you away from your baby for so long?? You can apply to change your hours if they are impacting on your ability to bf, and under Health and Safety regs they have to try to re-jig things for you.

As for getting your supply up, have you tried any galactagogues?

Monkies

"You can apply to change your hours if they are impacting on your ability to bf, and under Health and Safety regs they have to try to re-jig things for you."
Is that right? They have to grant your flexible working request if you are breastfeeding? Is there an upper age limit (of the child ) on that?

Hiya all, the problem with my working hours is that I'm on a training attachment for 6 months. I begged and begged when I was pg for them to postpone it they did want to take it away from me. I'm probably being a total coward but I don't think they'll be able to change my hours. I'm currently working as a tv news cameraman(woman/person?) and the nature of the job mean the hours are totally unpredicable. Ostensibly the hours are 7am-7pm or 11am-11pm but I never actually work those hours, it totally depends on the call time for the job the next day, some times I start at 9 and get away at 6, other days I start at 7am and get away at about 6 or 7pm. I think if I start demanding the have my hours changed they'll tell me that I won't be able to do the job. And the problem with expressing at work is that I can quite often be out of te building the whole day in the most inpractical places, I spent 9 hours standing outside a court the other day, with no opportunity to pump. I had a lunch break, but other than sitting in a public loo to do it I couldn't think of anywhere to go.

Wilfsell, thanks for the top tips about let down. I have noticed it's been getting slower and slower and I'm sure that's contributed to the biting problems I've had. It's a bit of a vicious circle because I'm getting tense waiting for him to bite so my let down is slow which is making him more likely to bite. I need to work out how to knock the biting thing on the head. This evening I gave him 4oz of ebm in a bottle and was going to bf him afterwards and see if that stopped the biting, but he didn't even finish the bottle so I figured he'd be more likely to bite if he wasn't hungry and he had my nipple in his mouth.

I'm going to try and do his dreamfeed tonight, I figure if he's asleep he can't possibly bite me. Wish me luck!

Just one thought, I started spotting the other day, a tiny bit but the first sign of any kind of period since I got pg. Could this indicate a change in hormones that could impact on bfing?

Monkies, i did try fenugreek, took it for about three months but I was feeding and pumping masses then so I'm not sure which upped my supply more, the fenugreek or the feeding and pumping.

Haven't had chance to read all your posts, but re the spotting, my supply always drops right down the week before my period is due, dd becomes unsettled and often wants an extra night feed and starts feeding like mad in the day when usually she's down to 2or 3 feeds per day max (she's almost 2). I noticed this drop in supply as soon as my periods came back around 6 months after she arrived so you may find your supply picks up again in the next couple of days.
Good luck.

oh that's reassuring pampam, I hope the same happens to me!

Very quickly; SPB, they don't have to grant you flexi hours etc if you are bf, but they have to consider it if you have a child under 6 years old. If your working hours or job impacts on your ability to bf then under H7S laws they have to try to make things more viable for you. I will look it all up tomorrow. My H&S bloke at work told me I had the right to expressing breaks for as long as I needed them, and that there was no upper age limit (for the child ). The really good ifo on this was all on the Maternity Alliance website but they were a charity that doesn't exist any more so I'll have to gather it from other places and come back to you.

HF, your period may be about to return, but it's a chicken and egg situation. It could be that the change in lifestyle and big gaps between expressing/feeds have triggered the return of the witch, it could be that the witch is making your supply low. They are all linked together.

When I was pumping I used Blessed/Milk Thistle in combination with Nettle and this certainly helped my supply, Fennel can help trigger let down too. I drank Twinnings Blackberry and Nettle tea with drops of Milk Thistle tincture in it, and fennel tea as well.

Monkies

www.workingfamilies.org.uk/asp/family_zone/factsheets/after_maternity_leave.doc

"Breastfee ding after returning to work

The law does not yet give a right to paid breastfeeding breaks although it does
give some protection. If there are risks to the breast milk itself (e.g.
contamination or drying up) or your working conditions are stopping you from
breastfeeding and your baby's health is put at risk, your employer should carry
out a risk assessment as above and remove the risks. This could include temporarily changing your working conditions or hours of work or giving you breaks for expressing milk. If you need to change your working hours in order to continue breastfeeding and you can show that your baby's health would suffer if
you cannot continue to breastfeed, for example, if your baby has allergies, it
may be indirect sex discrimination if your employer refuses without a good
business reason. "

HF, are you in a Union, and if not, why not?????? (my Unison rep would eat thgis for breakfast!)

Monkies

Head fairy, i've nothing really constructive to add, you are in a difficult situation, but I just wanted to say it's completely normal for you to feel this way.

DD is 11mo and I have been back at work 2 months, this last week I haven't been able to express anything and I almost cried at work thinking this was the beginning of the end. I have no more EBM and can't seem to express more than 2oz a time, and that's only if I pump while feeding. It's upsetting but kind of liberating at the same time. I have expressed every morning since dd was about 6 weeks. Fortunately she is old enough (just about) for cow's milk so she has started on that and I am hoping I can still feed as normal when not at work, but then I only work PT.

Don't run yourself into the ground doing this, really don't. You sound like you have been doing all the right things, but give yourself a break (whatever that means to you).

How are you doing HeadFairy?

Hi everyone....

Well we've had a pretty good weekend all in all. I've decided to be kind to myself and allow myself to stop pumping at work. The nature of my job make it impossible, and I was getting more and more stressed about trying to find a way to do it. The only reason I was trying so hard to express at work was so I could keep doing the mid afternoon feed on my days off, but I've decided to drop that for formula and keep my sanity intact!

Touch wood, he hasn't bitten me for five days now. I've swapped all the teats on our bottles for one hole teats. I think he was getting impatient with the slow flow of breastfeeding after getting a bit too used to fast flowing bottles. Poor love has to really suck hard to get it out of a bottle, but if it stops him biting...

I'm going to stick with doing the morning bedtime and dream feed, 3 feeds a day should be enough to keep my flow going. I've only been doing those feeds all weekend and if anything my supply has picked up a bit, I think it's because i'm a bit more relaxed about the whole thing. I even got a really strong letdown sensation last night which I haven't felt for almost a week now. I had to pump this morning cos ds was still asleep before I went to work, but I managed to get 5oz out which has made me pretty happy.

As for the work thing Monkies... I am in a union, my workplace is heavily unionised (BBC) but the problem is that I'm on a 6month training attachment that I begged for, I've already postponed it as far as I could because of my pregnancy and I think if I start demanding to change my hours they'll tell me that I can't do the attachment and I'll have to go back to my old job, which I really don't want. I'm happy if I can keep three feeds a day going, I'm going to see how I go for the next few weeks but I think now I've taken the pressure off myself a bit things will get a lot easier. I couldn't possibly go back to work full time with the crazy hours I work and not expect ds to have to have a couple of bottles of formula, I think I was a bit crazy to think I could keep him on just bm (and of course his normal solids) and do those hours.

Thank God I'm not on nights is all I can say... they're supposed to start again in October when I go back to my old job, but we'll see what I can do then, I will definitely use my right to flexible working then. One of the girls at work has just swapped to just three days a week and no nights and her two dds are 5 and 9.

Thanks for all your kind words of support everyone. You're all so lovely x

good for you, I'm glad you're sounding so much better about it all
(Will be watching for you - will you do the secret MN sign so we know it's you??)

stealth are you another bbc-er? where do you work?

Am feeling much better about the whole working/breastfeeding balance thing btw...

So true that taking the pressure off myself really makes a difference.

oooh is there really a secret MN sign...?

Anyhow, glad you're feeling better about it Headfairy, and that your supply is working on those feeds. Good luck with it.

yeah, you roll up one trouser leg and... oh hang on, wrong secret sign

thanks wilfsell

HeadFairy, re the biting, have you tried pushing his nose into your breast when he does it? Sounds cruel, I know, but ds3 was a terrible biter and this stopped him.
Btw, I stopped expressing in work when he was 1.2 I left him for a few weekends away/training courses on occasion from then on and pumped while I was away. I found that what I could get with the pump at those times were far less than what I had been able to get when he was smaller. BUT, he still seemed quite happy with my supply and I went on to feed him till he was 2.8. HTH

It's funny you say that chipmonkey, I have been holding him pretty firmly and closely to my boob during feeding and he's not bitten me for ages... maybe that's what stopped him. I started doing that because when he bites he slides off the nipple slightly so by holding him close and firmly I can keep him in optimum feeding position. I watch him like a hawk and as soon as he looks like he's about to bite I take him off. So far so good.

Its encouraging to hear that what you pumped had no reflection on what your ds was getting.

The way I see it, if you ever look at a small child eating one of those Mr Freeze-type ice-lollies, the ones that come in a bag; the child is able to suck every last drop of liquid out of the bag. Now, I doubt if you attached a breast pump to the bag that it would be that effective! I think what you can pump can be an indicator of supply but it doesn't really tell you what is going on when the baby is feeding. Also, a baby on solids is not going to need the same amount of milk as before and your body will gradually adjust to that, too.

HF, three feeds a day is brilliant, compared to none, and if taking the pressure of you has made you more relaxed then a couple of bottles of formula a day is hardly the end of the world!! You just have to find the way to make it work for you, and it sounds as if you have so thats cool.

What is the secret MN sign?

(and I hope you weren't responsible for that God-Awful "pro-bf" report on BBC Northwest tonight!)

Monkies

that's such a good analogy chipmonkey!

greenmonkies, if I told you the secret sign it wouldn't be secret any more ! (ps I wasn't responsible)