EBF vs EP

[justamum98]

Hi, LONG POST. Sorry x

just need a bit of advice. I have a 6 week old and a 3 year old. Since bringing the baby home my toddler has endless tantrums. He is really sweet around the baby and brings me fresh nappies and wipes whenever I change the baby and he holds her hand but he screams all the time when something doesn’t go his way (which is all day long) for example when he can’t have chocolate for dinner…

anyways. This is my first time breastfeeding and the baby is glued to me all day long. She cluster feeds at random times. Sometimes all morning and sometimes all evening there is no predicting what tomorrow will look like. I’m exclusively breastfeeding and whilst doing that I’m struggling to give my toddler the time he needs- for example to play etc.

when I do get 10mins away from the baby (which is all I seem to get) in between feeds etc I make my toddler food or change him or something but I don’t seem to have time to play with him. Not like I used to.

he is throwing tantrums like there’s no tomorrow. Screaming all the time and waking the baby or hitting our dog for no reason etc so I feel like this is because all of a sudden his mummy is too busy with another baby and he’s screaming for attention.

ive tried baby carriers but the baby isn’t a fan. I’ve also tried going for walks and the longest I’ve gone was 15-20mins because she screams the place down and wants to be on the boob all the time.

my sister has suggested I pump instead. Because with my first born he was formula fed and we obviously didn’t have this problem. The baby would just feed in 10min, burp, change nappy then sleep for the other hour. So it was a lot easier. My toddler doesn’t go to nursery so the struggle is real.

my baby is so glued to me I sometimes don’t have a shower for 2 days because I don’t want her crying. She also doesn’t settle in anyone else arms like her dads (not for very long anyways) and we have no other family around.

how do you all do it? Those of you that EBF second or third baby, how do you manage both without neglecting the other?

anyways, I’m not thrilled about the idea of exclusively pumping. It sounds like more work and for some reason makes me feel like a failure like I’m giving up on breastfeeding all together.

just want to hear thoughts. Any advice would be fab xx

That sounds so rough, I’m so sorry! 6-8 weeks was the peak time of baby crying for us so hopefully it will start to improve soon! I EBF both of mine but I don’t think they were as clingy as you describe. Sometimes my toddler would be happy to play on his own as long as I was near him (so I would feed on the floor). Or you could feed whole reading books? Stickers are also good, or drawing/colouring? Is there a park that you can walk to so that baby falls asleep in the buggy while you walk and then you can play with your toddler there?

Yeah our toddler plays on his own too. He kind of has no choice. I’m always in the room with him whilst he does (he has most of his toys in the living room), but they just aren’t enough. He needs me to do what he does. Whether it’s playing with blocks or colouring or jumping around and dancing otherwise it’s boring. I feel bad for him I do.

when I’m feeding the baby I literally can’t talk or have tv on or anything otherwise she won’t fall asleep. And when she does fall asleep I can’t put her down because she wakes. Then back to square one.

she’s very clingy and hates being in the pram 😂 I’ve tried it all. If I could walk around with her outside whilst she’s glued to the boob she would be happy.

ahh I’m hoping this will ease soon, feed bad like I don’t have enough hands to be there for everyone.

Ahh, OP I was about to do a similar post to be honest. DD2 is v young so we’re still establishing feeding, but I also formula fed my first and I’m feeling so much guilt about enjoying breastfeeding whilst being so upset that I can’t give DD1 the attention I know she needs. No advice, but just to say you’re not alone and it really is a tough balancing act.

Pumping takes A LOT more time than breastfeeding. A lot. Take it from someone who is now pumping as I went back to work at 6 months. I'm in a few online groups for pumping mums and the board is full of mums with toddlers giving up because it is almost impossible to pump, give baby bottle and then care for toddler.

Pumping is not as efficient as baby, it takes a lot longer.
You need to constantly clean and sterilize.
You need to pump when baby would eat i.e. every 2 hours.
Then you need to actually give baby the bottle.
You don't get the benefit of breastfeeding as comfort for the baby so may find it even more difficult to settle the baby.

Mums do it of course but if you're already struggling with lack of time, pumping is not the solution.

I agree with a lot of what @SunshineIdiot789 said. Also, you may not actually be able to pump a big enough volume of milk, some women struggle. I pumped every day (about 20 mins) and husband gave the bottle of expressed milk at night (and I built up a freezer stash for if I went out). So you could try that and do 1 or 2 bottles and get your partner to give those

I had a very similar situation to you with my second baby and after the first few weeks I moved from EBF to a mix of pumping and formula, which I did until baby was 4 months then moved to exclusively FF. No regrets, you need to do what works best for the whole family. Pumping was a pain and I didn’t enjoy it at all but with a clingy baby and a demanding toddler in the mix it was the best solution as my husband could feed the baby and I could give toddler a lot more attention. My husband had a long paternity leave with the second one though - if you’re home alone most of the day pumping may not be the solution as it’s overall going to take more time than BF and you’ll need someone to hold the baby while you’re pumping - it’s almost impossible to pump, watch baby and keep an eye on toddler all at the same time. If pumping doesn’t work I wouldn’t feel bad at all moving to FF at this point - afterall your first is presumably just fine having been FF?

Pumping is really hard work, BF when established is much easier. C
i have a similar gap with my two and I think a lot of what you’re experiencing with your son is the normal transition when they have to share you with a sibling regardless of how you choose to feed. I did find EBF made it more challenging but would pop my second in the sling whenever possible to do more active playtime with my eldest and when that wasn’t possible I’d bring books or colouring to where I was feeding before I started and do those things with him while I fed the baby. You are in the thick of it though and even in just a few weeks you’ll get a more established pattern of feeding and have more time for your eldest. Go easy on yourself, it’s a hard transition

I managed to EBF my youngest with 3 year old twins... they started nursery when baby was 4 months old. it was hard but a baby sling (wrap) was my best friend and I spent lots of time reading on the couch with the twins whilst the baby fed. Of sat on the floor playing 'school' or similar whilst also breastfeeding. Looking back it was insane but we got through it and so will you! Wishing you all the best x

Just wanted to add sympathies, I formula fed my older one and am EBF my new baby, and we have the same issue. I am glued to the baby all day and have to leave older one to play on their own.

I think you should be able to make time for a shower if you want one, that seems a bit extreme.

Perhaps you could have a bit more tolerance for the baby to cry? How long are you in there for (I know that’s a whole other MN thread!)?

If you can get her used to feeding and then putting her down for 15-20m that could help a lot. She doesn’t need to be permanently held/attached. She could be on the floor on a mat with you and your DS for example.

When is your toddler starting nursery or pre school? It seems like he needs more stimulation but that’s going to be difficult.

I hated pumping and this wouldn’t have worked for me.

Mine are 19 months apart so I hear you with the stress! I BF both of mine but stopped at 3 months with eldest. When youngest came along he was also EBF and he’s had really clingy times. I always had my eldest with me. He would sit and watch tv with me while I was feeding the baby. Then I’d put the baby down and we’d all play together. When baby was asleep I’d do things with eldest.

Their dad was always really good too and would change nappies of both. He also ALWAYS did bath time - he’d bath them both together as it was easier. I’d get 10-15 mins to breathe!

We all co-slept so that made nighttime feeding easier and eldest was still cuddled to sleep and one of us read to them both to settle them down. Once they had their own beds we continued reading and they settled (mostly) okay. I know people moan about Co sleeping but it was the easiest and best way for us all to get any sleep.

hth and good luck! Cherish the moments as you’ll look back fondly!

I pumped exclusively for 7 months with my 5th. It's by far the hardest thing I ever ever done. You not only have the hugely time consuming pumping, for which you can't so much else, but you also have to feed the baby and clean all the bottles and pump parts. If breastfeeding is going well as far as you and baby are concerned, I would definitely not recommend switching to pumping because it will not give you any extra time for your other child.
It's beneficial if breastfeeding isn't going well and you still want to give your baby breast milk of course, and is why I chose to do it for so long despite the difficulties, but if I could have breastfed I would have done it without question over pumping!!!

I had the same age gap as you and a velcro exclusively breastfed second baby! I distinctly remember my eldest saying 'mummy put it down' referring to his brother but that was in the first week. I think him being at nursery helped. We kept him in nursery for 2.5 days, which he had been doing previously whilst I was at work. I tried to get out of the house as much as I could we have a park and play ground about 5 mins walk away, so youngest could be in the pram and I could give him a bit more attention. My mum was working part time so we would visit her once a week, that helped as he got more attention then too.

Also to echo above expressing is awful. I had to do it with my first as he was premmie. As soon as I was able to breast feed him I did. I said to myself if my second didn't take to breastfeeding I wasn't going to pump just go straight to formula. Luckily he was born a pro!

Exclusively Pumping is way way more time consuming than feeding… and whilst you are doing it you will likely not be able to play with your 3year old or hold the baby… it will not solve your problem… my second basically lived in a soft sling… we had a close caboo…which comes in two parts, which I put on when I got dressed in the morning and then just put baby in and out of… You can place them in a side lie to feed in the sling…and t it is much more adjustable than a full wrap sling. We did a lot of role play playing… with my eldest making me dinners/ picnics etc in her play kitchen… we would play libraries and hairdressers etc etc… this time between 6-10 weeks is really hard… sending you strength to weather these storms…

The problem sounds like the baby not the toddler. Is he using the boob to always feed or just as a comfort? Whilst of course babies cluster feed for short periods of time, it seems strange that they are putting you in a situation where you can’t even shower! You need to wean him off onto a dummy, or just his thumb. And yes, that will involve him crying at first but he’ll get over it pretty quickly.

I wasn't able to breastfeed either of my DC so I can't help in terms of advice but I couldn't just scroll past without shouting at you; FED IS BEST; YOU ARE NOT A FAILURE IF ITS NOT DIRECTLY FROM YOUR BOOB OR INDEED FROM YOUR BOOB AT ALL. You have grown two tiny humans and you are keeping them alive, it's bloody hard going from one to two so please give yourself a break. Do whatever works best to keep those tiny humans fed, alive, happy and healthy but just as importantly do what's best to keep your sanity. You got this mama xx

I have done both - EP and EBF. EP with my first for a year, EBF second. I would 100% not advise EP. It’s the worst of both worlds. You’ve got the bottle admin to deal with, and you’ll just be glued to the pumps vs the baby. You’ll be swapping one for another. Both of which will mean you won’t get the same quality time with your toddler. If anything, it would be either EBF or fomula feed. I think both have their benefits when it’s your second baby.

when we had our second, our toddler was in full time nursery. And we kept it that way the whole time I was on maternity leave. I’ve no idea how I would have coped otherwise with two of them on my own in the early days. It would have been lots of TV for the toddler and nobodies needs being met. If you really don’t have an option with nursery, then I would really lower your expectations as low as you can go. The baby will need to cluster feed at this age so the idea of going out of the house for any length of time is going to be hard. Do you have a garden where your toddler can run around while you’re with the baby?

there isn’t an easy solution for this. We weren’t meant to bring up children in isolation and certainly not with another young child to look after at the same time. If there is anyone at all who could lend a hand then I would seriously consider it, even if you hire a nanny to help out a few hour a day, or ask a friend to help.

im so sorry you’re in this place. By 12 weeks the feeding should have slowed and you’ll be able to get into a bit of a rhythm.

if it’s getting too hard then maybe swapping to formula so you can feed baby more easily on the go might be your only
option. Wishing you all the best.

also, a huge benefit of EBF with your second is that bedtimes are much easier and once it’s established then you can feed on the go, anywhere and most importantly through the night. Breastfeeding at night has saved my sanity second time round. I can just roll over, boob in mouth and back to sleep. No getting up to sort bottles etc. Especially as I didn’t have any help really at nights second time round as hubbie was with our toddler. So breastfeeding was my saviour, however I think it did cause more jealousy issues with our toddler, and obviously meant the baby was with me more vs equally between me & hubbie. There are sacrifices whatever method you choose x

Pumping will be so much harder and might muck up your supply. I had exactly this situation with DD1 and DD2 and can totally empathise - it’s so hard at this stage. But by about 12 weeks (I think from what I remember!) baby will stop cluster feeding and then it all becomes a bit easier - by 3 months DD2 was just feeding every couple of hours and everything settled down x

I pumped for 14 months for my youngest when my eldest was 2 years 2 months.

Different set of circumstances - eldest was formula fed after loads of feeding problems - tongue tie which was snipped and didn’t make a difference, low blood sugars, NG etc. So traumatised.

My youngest was a pumping from about 3 days once I got a blood blister on my nipple and decided to switch!

So it’s doable but the temperament of your children makes a difference!

It’s not all or nothing so getting a pump and swapping out some feeds and seeing if baby would settle might help, though I get it might be easier said than done to establish with a velcro baby.

Tips for success if you were to try:

• Wearable and hospital grade pump - Personally I had a medela freestyle flex (before it was wearable) and an elvie stride. Worked as a nurse on a busy ward with my stride on.
• Checking baby will take milk you’ve frozen early on and it’s not high lipase so you don’t build a stash that gets wasted (high lipase needs scalding)
• Multiple sets of pump parts so you’re can wash up in one go.
• Regularly replacing pump parts to avoid loosing supply.
• Looking up the fridge hack / a ceres chill for out and about if you felt you could take that risk of fridge hack. Pump parts in the fridge for 24 hours - really they should be washed after each use, but you’d keep milk for longer than that so individual assessment of risk.
• The pitcher method for fridge milk, collecting milk over 24 hours then sitting it into feeds for the next day and freezing the rest when your 24 hours are up. Only mix milk that’s the same temp so mix last feeds milk at the next feed once it’s gone down to fridge temp.
• A steriliser that also dries things well - I had a vital baby UV one which was amazing!
• Being organised about stock rotation of frozen milk.

I hope that helps and whatever you decide, remember the mum guilt is partly hormonal. You have to do your best to be sane and present as well! It’s really tough and it will get better x

Ps Sneaking off to pump is great for watching box sets if you have a supportive husband! 😛

Hitting the dog??

I exclusively pumped for my first for 6 months and honestly was so time consuming. The panic of being out and knowing you had to be back home to pump every 2/3 hours was a nightmare the constant sterilising and pumping through the night even when baby slept through. It nearly broke me.

It took till my 3rd to actually successfully breastfeed and we did it till 18 months and honestly it’s like a whole different thing post 3 months and everything settles and is less time consuming and it was so so much easier. That 3 months probably seems so far off but honestly it goes by in a flash.

Pumping won’t help, it’s less efficient than the baby feeding and then you have to feed her separately so it will take longer. You could get a suction pump (a haaka type about £15) and use it on one boob while baby feeds on the other then swap. This would allow you to collect milk so your partner could do occasional bottle feeds.

6 weeks is a peak growth spurt period where babies cluster feed so it will feel worse than normal at the minute.

I suggest you use a sling so you can cuddle and carry baby while you play with toddler. And spend a few minutes a day just focused on your toddler. It doesn’t have to be a long time, just make it fun and have baby with dad or asleep.

I had a two year age gap with my first two, no nursery either and a very high needs toddler. I tandem fed occasionally which makes it easier but it’s really hard. They get unsettled because it’s a major change. My toddler loved his sister and adjusted really well but he still had sleep regression and used to wake me at night more than the baby!

Have you had your baby double checked for tongue tie? They missed it with mine at the hospital. Health visitor picked it up though. Unfortunately even without tongue tie they can cluster feed a lot in the early days. It does get easier. I found it worth it in the long run though. It was so much easier than having to sterilize bottles etc, especially at night time.