Told I ruined my BF chances at 8 days PP

[Copenhagener]

Hi all,

I’m desperately hoping someone can help me.

I gave birth last Monday via c-section. Baby struggled to breathe so I could not do skin to skin for a few hours while she was on a c-pap machine.

Tried to establish breastfeeding at the hospital for the next 3 days. She would not latch at all.

I asked if I could start pumping at the hospital to secure my supply on Wednesday evening. I managed to get a small flow going, which reassured me - but it was only 10-20ml per pumping. By this point we had to give formula because she’d lost 12% of her birthweight in 3 days.

Discharged Thursday with a warning about the weight loss, and gave her formula with some pumped milk - managed to get up to 100ml a pumping session so was feeling quite positive (pumping every 3 hours). I continued trying to get her to latch, but she couldn’t, even with help from a consultant and a health visitor. She has a high palate and a very recessed bottom lip.

On Saturday, baby was suddenly admitted to NICU because her breathing started to fail. I was in total distress and crying so much. I still carried on trying to pump every 3 hours, but my output immediately fell to 5ml every session. I was told it was because I’d gotten too stressed and my cortisol was too high to produce milk.

We were discharged today, and now I can’t even get 2ml a pumping session. I’ve been doing lots of skin-to-skin and trying to get her to latch still, with no success. I’m basically 98% formula feeding now. It’s horrible pumping and pumping and looking at an empty jar.

I spoke to a lactation consultant at the hospital, and she said I’ve lost my chance to breastfeed now and the window is closed as we’re at 8 days post partum and I should’ve been referred for help within 24 hours of her failing to feed. I did ask for help
but the nurses just kept trying to put her on my nipples the same way over and over again. I’m so angry at myself for getting so upset at the NICU that I ruined my supply by spiking my cortisol levels.

Has anyone else ever had this situation? Can I come back from this, or do I need to accept that I am destined for formula feeding now? I didn’t realise quite how small the window was - and trusted the nurses to help me: I’m so sad.

The breastfeeding network have a 24 hour helpline 0300 100 0212.

You can do it (if you want to - it’s also fine to not!!).

you need to pump a lot. Think about all the people on here saying their baby sat at the boob for yonks. That’s lots of sucking to simulate supply - same idea with pump. Frequent and keep going again and again even if not getting much, see if over a few days you see a big increase in supply.

Then separate question is getting baby to suck it out - agree professional help here is a good idea. Babe definitely not too old to learn - think about all the NICU babies!! Mine was basically syringe fed for more than a week then learned fine.

I just wanted to say that I struggled to breastfeed in the first few months. Baby would only latch at night and I barely pumped anything at all. But I kept trying to latch at night.

At about 8 months, baby was practicing standing, with me supporting him and he suddenly latched on! For fun I think but he found he quite liked it. He started feeding for comfort and feeding to sleep after that, though we mostly continued with formula until 1y.

In the end he was very late weaning off comfort feeds, 3y+. I was ready to stop long after he was.

So I want to say it's still early and don't give up. Find someone else to see you at the breastfeeding clinic. Have you tried supplementary feeding - using a tube attached to your breast so baby gets formula while latched to you? You can buy kits from Medala. Keep expressing by hand. Is domperidone still prescribed? Good luck!

Oh Honey, I’ve been there…
It took a while to find out I don’t have enough milk ducts. (I had c-sections under GA, but also didn’t have breast growth before or after birth. This was confirmed via ultrasound.) I was devastated. It takes a bit of juggling and I got the hang of it pretty quick. I also discovered that my baby slept better and longer, so that was an advantage. Also, my next pregnancy was twins, so it was kind of easier. I could give one to DH or Mum and spend some quality time with just one. (Also handing baby over to DH for a night feed so you can actually sleep is pretty great.)
Now my kids are grown I can say it won’t matter later, I promise. You will bond. You will adore each other regardless. It doesn’t make you less of a woman or a Mother. What matters is doing what’s best for your vulnerable baby, and you’re doing everything you can. Please be kind to yourself.

Just to add to all the other helpful replies, with my second baby I had to stop BF at 4 weeks old as I had a health condition that flared up and i needed to take some heavy duty medication for a couple of weeks. I didnt BF for 4 weeks and in that time pumped and dumped approx 6 times a day to maintain some sort of supply. After 4 weeks with a bit of perseverance I reestablished BF and ended up feeding her until she was 9 months old.

One thing I found was when she wide awake wasnt the best time to be trying to get her on the boob because she'd be screaming with hunger so as soon as she'd mooch Id throw her on before she fully woke. I still supplemented with a bottle for the first few days and slowly phased these out as supply regulated

As an experience mum that has breastfed all her kids I have like a lot. THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT. NICU is the hardest experience of my life. I was there for 14 long days and it was emotional my milk was on the low side even though I always had heaps of milk. FENGUGEEK is the best for increasing milk supply. I would start there. Look breastfeeding is great but it is not the end of the world. I do know of someone that didn't start feeding baby till day 10 and they are breastfeeding still at 2yrs of age. So I would keep trying. Get the herbs to increase milk supply.

I know someone whose baby didn’t latch till she was 3 months, she pumped that entire time and then managed to become EBF! I’m amazed as I think this would have been so hard, but just shows you it’s possible. . I’ve got such little confidence in NHS. Id recommend getting a good private lactation consultant asap, who can support you in trying to establish feeding and with the many things people are suggesting.

My baby couldn’t latch after an assisted birth.

I expressed for her for 12 months instead.

Stress has an absolutely enormous impact on milk supply. You’ve plenty of time to establish it, but be prepared that your baby might never latch.

Fenugreek is great but you do stink when taking it. I didn’t until I was about 8 months in and wanted to not be pumping every 4 hours around the clock anymore.

plenty of water and oats are also helpful.

Sorry you’ve had a rough start! My son was born premature over the summer so completely get how stressful it is. I ended up staying in hospital for a month once he was stepped down from NICU trying to get breastfeeding established but it just didn’t work for him so he’s fed entirely on expressed breast milk. That said he’s nearly 6 months now and has finally figured out how to latch. Not enough to exclusively breastfeed but small amounts that tide him over until his next bottle which makes getting out and about so much easier so I wouldn’t give up yet if breastfeeding is still something you want to do. I’d definitely look into getting more support with breastfeeding - be that a private consultant or local groups. If you know any mums locally maybe you could ask for recommendations?

If you want to exclusively pump then there are a few things you can try? Are you making sure to express overnight? It stimulates hormone production to make sure your body keeps producing milk. It can be quite hard to build a good supply if you skip this (as annoying as it is). Make sure you’ve got a decent pump that’s correctly sized. Ideally if you can stretch to it get two sets of the cups so you’ve got a bit of leeway with sterilising. Massage or a warm shower can also help prior to expressing with volume as it helps you relax. Is baby’s father around? It’s really been a team effort for us to get to this point. When he’s home he feeds the baby his expressed bottle so I can pump. Same for whenever the overnight feed is. He does bottle and nappy, I pump and sterilise. In the morning he sorts out our son when he wakes up so I can have a cup of tea in bed and do another pump. The morning pump is my most productive so we prioritise giving me a chunk of time to try and get as much as possible which takes the heat off if it’s more tricky to pump once he’s gone to work. Exclusive pumping is much more common in the US due to short maternity leave so check out American based forums/Reddit for more advice.

All that said it’s still been incredibly difficult. I have PND and I know the exclusive pumping has made that more difficult (my MH team were concerned at one point as I was clearly struggling with it). As my son has got older and thanks to medication/therapy groups the PND has got more under control it has got easier/become my new normal but still not as simple as either breastfeeding or just formula. Obsessing about feeding was also probably an unhelpful coping strategy for me to process having a poorly baby as it felt like the one thing I could actually control - I wonder if there’s an element of that for you?

I know someone, whose baby didn’t latch for 2 months and she pumped the whole time. Reading posts on this thread, I don’t think this is as uncommon as I thought. You’ve been through a hell of a time. Take care of yourself as well.

Hi OP. Sorry you've had such a difficult start. My son ended up in NICU for a week post birth and also struggled to latch after we were discharged. I pumped the entire time and often it wasn't enough so the hospital supplemented with formula. We were eventually able to EBF until DS was about 15 months old. If the hospital aren't able to supply a medical grade pump, you can hire one from Medela. We did and kept it for two months until my supply was established before moving on to a home pump. Please don't beat yourself up, you had a tough and stressful start. If you want to pursue breastfeeding I'm sure it's not too late. Hopefully you can find some better support.

As for how I got my supply up. I used to get up in the morning before dd, pump then pump again 20 mins later. As you’re not breastfeeding at the moment, you could prioritise pumping first thing at least twice like this as you’ll get more, which will make the task feel more achievable. I imagine also pumping while also giving a bottle and doing skin to skin would help as well.

That sounds incredibly stressful - I hope you’re all doing okay.

I wasn’t able to establish breastfeeding until 2 weeks post partum after receiving little help in hospital, and even then it was hard going for a few weeks but eventually it worked well- we kept going until 2yrs 7 months!

The private lactation specialist I used was brilliant. I found lactation cookies helped initially too, though tasted strange.

Good luck!

Similar story. Cesarian section, baby has respiratory distress, had to go to NICU, the hospital were useless and very unsupportive with breastfeeding, told me not to bother pumping, eventually brought me a pump on the day I was being discharged. I persevered with breastfeeding and didn't realise how low supply was until my baby was 4 weeks old. Was told to switch to formula and I was devastated. I hired a private lactation consultant who came to my home and put me on a gruelling triple feeding routine (not for the faint hearted; if you know, you know!). Anyway, ten days later, my milk came in and I breastfed u til my baby was 19 months old.

Looking back, I'm glad I persevered as I enjoyed breastfeeding my last baby was a substantial amount of time but I don't think I would do it again. I don't think it was worth it. It nearly drove me insane.

Fwi, I've 3 kids: the first was formula fed and the the next two were breastfed. The breastfed ones pick up every bug going and the formula fed one is the most robust out of the three. A bit of anecdotal evidence but I don't think it's worth the stress or pressure we put on ourselves.

I just wanted to say that it's not too late, but you do need specialist support.

It might be worth taking a day or three in bed and doing nothing but drink (whatever you want to drink, it doesnt have to be water) and eat (whatever you want to eat - junk food is totally allowed) and watch something light hearted on TV and hold your baby. The skin to skin will increase oxytocin, calming you both. Oxytocin in turn helps with let down reflex, which is when the milk starts to flow. Feed your baby as often as either of you want - for their cues or yours. Feeding on demand means listening to BOTH in the Breastfeeding dyad and includes mum's emotional cues such as "I just want to try now" or "I'm knackered so I'll feed now and then try to rest".

There is a great leaflet about responsive bottle feeding here - https://www.unicef.org.uk/babyfriendly/baby-friendly-resources/bottle-feeding-resources/infant-formula-responsive-bottle-feeding-guide-for-parents/ which helps some families bond and supports the mixed feeding relationship.

Do you know how to hand express? There are loads of videos out there, but some mums do find they can express a little bit more than pumping in these early days through hand expressing (or, pumping, having a 5 minute break and then hand expressing for 2 minutes. The breast makes the most milk when it's emptier, so doing a kind of second express can help increase supply. Breasts are never fully empty its just that the fatty globules in the milk stick to the inside of the ducts when there is less milk in the boob and its therefore slower and harder to remove the milk.... doing a sort of gentle raindrop patter of tapping on the boob when the milk flow slows can help some mums wjth this)

Another tip is that prolactin (which is the hormone involved in the feedback loop mechanism for supply and demand) is generally higher between 2am and 5am so getting at least one feed or pumping session in during that time can really boost supply For a lot of mums.

Have you tried the 'nesting' approach to building supply? It's where you just stay in the house, no visitors and doing absolutely nothing except chilling out with your baby. No chores, just snuggling up with lots of skin to skin. It can be a nice reset after a ton of stress.

(At the end of the day, though BF is great, keeping your sanity is paramount, especially if you know your wee baby will find it difficult to latch. Formula is ok too.)

OP I didn't read the whole thread so apologies if it has been mentioned.

Did you get baby checked for a tongue/lip tie?
Breastfeeding is the first developmental milestone, so if a baby can't do it there is always an underlying cause. Either tongue tie or very prem or stiffness etc.
So by switching to formula you only cover up the problem . You don't address the issue.
Please note I'm not saying there is anything wrong with switching to formula!! Just the the underlying cause for the feeding difficulties will still be there.
Imo, it's worth investigating getting baby on the breast for a few reasons. A) to try and sus out and fix why it's happening and B) because that will automatically boost your milk supply. A baby is way more efficient at emptying the breast(and this stimulating the supply) than a pump.
I would also do this sooner rather than later as baby will get used to bottle feeding and then be too 'lazy' to breastfeed. Breastfeeding is harder than bottle feeding ( they need to suck harder, use more muscles etc)

Again not saying you shouldn't switch/stay on bottle whether that be formula or expressed milk, just that its worth 'fixing the underlying cause.

Good luck op, hope you find someone very supportive that can help. Your window for pumping/breastfeeding is definitely not closed!!

Can you rent a medical grade pump? Where I am, the midwives say don't bother with the commercial ones until you're established, rent the medical ones to get going. They get much more out much faster so get your supply going better

Definitely not written off at 8 days postpartum! I once worked with a woman who had almost no milk until 26 days and went onto EBF.

The stress reduction in milk is also temporary and isn't a reduction in supply just release although it can become a reduction in supply with time

You need advice from a skilled lactation consultant (clearly not the one you spoke to). Support with pumping, consideration of galactologues (medication/herbs) that can increase milk supply and help with latching.
There may well be a free IBCLC led group in your area or you can find private options on the LCGB website,

At 8 days milk is very responsive. Yes your poor start is likely to reduce your potential for milk production (we know not feeding or expressing in the first 6 hours post birth reduces the chances of a full supply) but they don't eliminate it and even if your supply isn't meeting 100% of your baby's needs, it could meet 80% or 60%.

Getting a good pump schedule in place now with the right pump, the right size flange, hands on pumping and power pumping once a day could really boost your supply. Direct latching may or may not take time but as long as you have a well fed baby and milk supply the two will come together.

Hi there,

Yes - the cause was identified - a high arched palate which makes it incredibly hard for her to latch and suck properly, and would be painful for me. Unfortunately there’s no treatment for it, though it may get better with age as she grows. I wish I’d known earlier as I wouldn’t have continued trying (and failing) to get her to latch at the hospital and wasting precious time getting my milk supply up with a pump / feeding her formula.

Big thank you to everyone who shared their personal experiences and advice - I’m surprised (and a bit sad) at how common this is for women!

Answering a few questions:

• I’m drinking all the water. I have a filter jug in front of me at all times.
• I have a bowl of oats every morning.
• baby can’t latch because of a high palate.
• I’m eating well and nutritiously.
• Surprisingly, I’m getting just about enough sleep. Baby sleeps well (2-3 hour naps multiple times a day) and my partner takes her from 1-4.30 every night while I sleep in another room.
• I’ve managed to get it up to approx. 30ml a session with 8ish pumps a day, including power pumping every other day. But seem to have hit another wall. After about 5 minutes of a 15 minute pump, nothing extra comes out, even with me massaging my breasts.
• I do a night pump at 12:30 and another at 5. I’ve tried 2/3am and gotten nothing at all. Early morning is my most productive pump.
• I’ve tried multiple flange sizes and fits - 24 with silicon rim seems to be the best.
• I used a Medela Symphony at the hospital and we did not get on at all! That was where I was only getting 5-10ml. I have an electric double Medela Swing at home, and that’s working better.
• I do not plan to try to breastfeed now - I feel too traumatised to attempt it. Either I’ll mix formula feeding with pumped milk if my supply increases, or it’ll be exclusively formula.
• I don’t live in the U.K., and I have been directly told I’m not doing the best by my child if I formula feed them by multiple healthcare staff, which is really tough to hear.
• Unfortunately I’m not fully fluent in the language here; which makes some support groups / experts not possible.
• my main reason for pumping is to help pass on my immunities to baby girl. Not so I can eventually breastfeed.

I’ve decided that if my supply doesn’t increase more by the end of this month I’ll quit pumping and shift to 100% formula fed. My mental health is taking a big bashing from this project and I’m still crying a lot out of nowhere. I just feel like I have no oxytocin in my body. I’m constantly feeling numb and empty inside and there’s no room for joy or excitement. I keep wondering if I made the right decision to have a child (after years of infertility and an IVF baby). My body keeps failing me time after time.

Really sorry to hear this but I want to tell you, please don't worry. I have and am in this situation, years of infertility and IVF, the latter of which was so emotionally taxing on me and my relationship.
At 5 weeks I gave up with breastfeeding, after being so so upset for 5 weeks I decided it wasn't worth it. Was really difficult as my baby was having bad reactions and still does to formula but I kept saying to myself a fed baby is a healthy baby and I shut off the idea of bf all together. Then one day I decided to put baby on breast and baby just took it (I don't know how or why, some say baby is older and could open mouth wider). But even now sometimes I'll bf and give formula, currently baby is on 400ml formula a day.

My advice is do not be so hard on yourself, trust me , if baby is ok on formula and not having adverse effects to it you're already doing SO much better than I was.

Fed is best xx

Please don’t feel bad or that you’ve failed @Copenhagener . I am medically unable to breastfeed and both of mine made it to adulthood being formula fed .

I would say you've been through a huge amount. Be kind to yourself.

However, I would suggest it's nonsense that you cannot now bf. I had a very tricky to start to bf with DD1. I managed 10 days initially before being admitted to hospital. She was then mix fed until we got home where I gave up bf.

I then relactated at 16 weeks with help from the LLL. We never returned to ebf but she did mix feed until 12 months. However, it is not an easy path. I only succeeded because I could devote my life to it - she was DD1.