Help! 4 day old baby not latching on

[skidoodle]

Hi there,

I've sometimes lurked around here while pregnant so I know how knowledgeable you guys are. I really could do with some advice.

My baby is only days old but breastfeeding is not going well. She didn't find it easy to latch on initially but we figured it out by day 2. Then my milk came in and we were pretty much back to square one. Or square minus one maybe. My breasts are engorged and according to the midwives in the hospital this means it is really hard for her to latch on as my nipples are too flat and the breasts are too hard.

I just got out of hospital today and although the midwives were very keen to help, I found a lot of their advice totally contradictory (e.g. told to wake her up, even by undressing her and putting her feet in cold water, every 3 hours to feed THEN when the shift changed a new midwife insisted I feed her every time she cried no matter what I thought the problem might be).

Anyway, over the last 2 days I've started expressing just so I can give her some milk as I've only occasionally managed to get her to feed and that has always been with a lot of physical help from a midwife. Now I'm home since earlier this evening. I've fed her expressed milk twice and tried her on the breast for a bit. She did her usual - sucked a little, seemed to latch on, then immediately broke the latch and started trying to chew on my nipple (did I mention how my nipples are all cracked and bleeding?)

So basically I'm really confused about what's going on with her, how I can get her feeding normally, why she's finding it so hard to latch on properly. The saddest thing is that when she does manage it, she's a great little feeder. It's breaking my heart seeing her constantly do little sucking motions with her mouth but when I put her on my breast she keeps pulling away from my nipple.

Aww, sympathies. I am out of time tonight, but my quick advice is nipple shields. Have a look for threads on here. They helped me feed my 3 dc's all who had probs latching on. Your dd sounds like mine rooting, but not able to 'get it' - it is heartbreaking and so upsetting I know...
Hope someone with more time comes along soon...

bumping for the people who know all the links

Congratulations on the birth of your dd.

Breastfeeding isn't easy for a lot of us but don't panic, there's help out there and on here for you.

Have you tried skin on skin feeding? Try cuddling up with her on the bed or sofa and let her feel the warmth and smell of you.

Would also recommend that you contact an NCT or La Leche Counsellor. These people are really friendly, all have experience of feeding themselves and will really help you. Ask your mw or hv for the numbers.

Sorry I can't be much more help.

if your nips are cracked and sore there is a problem with the latch.
is all your areola in her mouth too?
i have never heard of putting babis feet in cold water though.
though bf is natural it is a technique that both mum snd baby need to leard snd it takes patience and perserversnce.
you msy be too engorged, try rxpressing into a cup for her then applying to the boob as a bottle this early may confuse her as the latch on a teat and nipple is differnet.

ok, well I would def go with the demand feeding. feed her whenever she cries, unless it's obvious she has a dirty nappy ro whatever, in which case sort that out and then feed.
you need to feed plenty to get your milk supply well established.
it can be hard for them to latch on when breasts are very engorged. you can try expressing some off before you latch her on to make boob a bit softer and see if that helps. she may also not be coping with the sheer amount coming out, so expressing will help with this too.

do hang on in there, and talk to a BFC. your nipples should not be cracked or bleeding, so you need someone to make sure that she really it latching on properly and sucking effectively

Are you using lansinoh nipple cream? if not get some from the pharmacy counter at boots, it's great for sore nipples. Have you tried expressing a little to stop your breasts being so full then seeing if lo will latch on any better? I really think the best thing is to just try to feed on demand, try skin to skin contact with lo as much as poss? Is there a breast feeding councillor your health visitor can put you in touch with who can come round and give you a hand? Have you tried different positions? eg lying down with lo? rugby ball hold? I know it's really difficult at this stage but hang in there, someone more knowledgeable will be along soon with more advice, thats about all I can think off .Congratulations by the way

all the links are on hunker's website, ski. www.howbreastfeedingworks.com

i'm sorry about all this, it's not easy in the beginning, is it? i had totally contradictory advice from MWs as well. if you can get dh to phone the numbers on the front page of hunker's site tomorrow, they'll speak to you or call you back. you need to find someone you can trust, iykwim? and you need some lansinoh.

La Leche helpline number is 0845 120 2918. Phone them - they will put you in touch with someone locally to you.

Their website is www.laleche.org.uk

here is nice website with links to bf helplines.

skidoodle, ring them

They shouldn't normally discharge new mums from the hospital until the feeding is established, it's the policy where I am. This is very naughty. For some reason more girls then boys have this problem so you are not alone. Carry on expressing, this should help with the full breasts, check the positioning, placing her on a pillow next to your nipple can sometimes help, with some babies you have to give them a bit of encouragement, wake her up if you have to, the cold water is not a very good idea as it will shock her and make her upset. Pick her up and move her around, try rubbing her face and back, this should do the trick. I think that you need to give your community midwife a call in the morning as I can't help you with the positioning over the web. Have you tried nipple shields?

ha we have all cross posted.

skidoodle have you tried a bath together? then just going to bed, no clothes on either of you (well perhaps nappy) for lots of skin to skin.

can i recommend demad feeding too. I personally wouldnt be giving expressed milk as the bottle teat can cause nipple confusion at this stage. They recommend to establish breast feeding for 6-8 weeks before expressing. I sympathise with the craked and bleeding nipples - lanisoh is fab and will heal it. I had bleeding nipples with my 12 week old. Agree to express offa little if you are engorged, have you tried feeding in the bath, you are likely to feel more relaxed, breast will be softer and baby will relax as reminisence of the womb. It takes practice and perserverence but is worth it. THe Kellymom website is fab.

Awen - did i kill your thread? sorry

skidoodle - congrats on yr dd and well doen on getting this far with bf.

the early days are not the easiest but with the right support to get the latch right - it will get better.
we had a grim time at the start and also told that my nipples were too flat for feeding. they werent so dont let anything you have been told knock your confidence in being able to do this - if you really want to. we are still bf at nearly 12 months - i had many many threads here in the early days to give me support and ideas. find what works best for you tonight. do you have any lasinoh cream to help chewed nipples??
i found that havign a bath with dd helped. she relaxed, as did i and i seemed to click. can yr partner be as attentive as possible while you head to bed for babymooning and skin to skin.

i wont go over what others have said. take it one feed at a time until you can get support tomorrow, either through the phone or community midwife.

A few other things I tried - although I say again that shields cracked feeding for me, but you could try:
*pumping some milk off before a feed to soften breast
*using a vacuum device to enlarge your nipple prior to a feed (Chicco do one I recall)
*try feeding in a warm bath, let baby come to you
*try feeding walking around
*try rugby hold
*try lying down position
*try spoon feeding (dripping in mouth) while baby at breast to encourage latch

These all CAN work, but may not, but worth a try.
I was also advised about the cold water thing, only served to cause additional distress...

Keep going though Ski - you will get through this , and CONGRATULATIONS!

skidoodle, hopefully you will get better help and support from the community midwives. They seem to have been pretty useless in hospital. None of what they have told you is correct, in fact (and as for cold water on the feet....sheesh).

Main thing is to talk to someone knowledgeable. Skin to skin is good...and expert help to get positioning so it doesn't hurt.

Don't wait for your baby to cry every time before feeding - this is a late sign, and babies indicate in many other ways they are ready.

Not sure why she is pulling away at time - this is something you need to speak to someone about.

Hope tonight feels better.

Wow, a huge THANK YOU to you all. I'm a little tired and emotional today, so it really helps to get support with this.

It's interesting that a few of you mention nipple shields. One of the midwives told me about these on the downlow - basically said she wasn't meant to recommend them but that they might help me. Kind of weird as though she were telling me about something really illicit I had so many ideas thrown at me I kind of forgot about her suggestion.

I will go and get some tomorrow and see if they help. Sorry to sound so thick, but I have absolutely no idea what they are. I'll have a little search around online if I get a chance before bed/next feeding.

katepol - "rooting" sounds exactly right.

The cold water thing just sounded too mean to me. Also when she gets distressed, which she does quite quickly, it all just gets impossible, so I didn't try that.

I'm not sure feeding walking around will work for me for the moment as I had an EMCS and although I'm healing well I'm not sure I quite have the mobility to pull that off. I also don't have a bath, so that's out. My most successful position has been lying down (apparently makes my nipples less flat) but I've always had to have someone else help get her latched on as I only really have one arm to work with that way. I only tried rugby hold once. Must give it another go.

awen, bethoo I didn't want to start expressing this early at all, but I did because I was worried about her getting hungry and I heard mention of top up feeds and I just thought that was ridiculous as I have milk, it's just that she can't get at it easily. I'm a little worried about the nipple confusion thing, but today I had a really, really nice midwife and she convinced me to give her bottles as she was struggling with the syringe and cup and she said her sucking reflex was very strong. I hope I didn't make a mistake listening to her

Thank you all for the links. I have lots of work to do tomorrow now

I have been using Lansinoh and it is helping. fingerwoman when she manages to latch on properly then things are fine, it's just the many failed attempts on the way there that are causing havoc. Plus I fed her to sleep a few times before the milk came in and I think she did a bit of chewing as I was kind of dozed off. I'm much stricter now about not letting her use me as a soother, but she loves to do that and she still manages to get a few nips in most times I try to feed her.

I can't tell you all how grateful I am. It really helps to not feel so alone and at sea with this.

right, the little darling is waking up. time for feeding and bed.

tiktok

thanks - when I managed to figure out feeding (before milk came in and it all went awry) I had stopped listening to the midwives and started trying to figure out from her when she was hungry, but not waiting until she was crying as I really felt her distress was not helping. Nice to feel vindicated, as by the time I left hospital I felt like all my instincts were wrong.

OK, bedtimes.

Hi Skidoodle,

Congratulations on you new baby girl .

Firstly, i would strongly recommend a set of Silverette. These are little sterling silver cups which are worn between feeds and i was completely healed within 48hours of wearing them. This then allows you to concentrate wholeheartedly at perfecting the latch rather than thinking with fear of latching . They are the only thing that i found that actually healed QUICKLY rather than just soothing.

You have been given good advice from here.. and like tiktok said you should not leave her until she is crying to feed her, lift her at her earliest hunger cues.. licking lips, rooting, grunting, or just being unsettled. ALWAYS pump or hand express until your milk starts to flow. This will soften your breast, extend your nipple and also allow for 'letdown' so not to startle her and scare her from the breast. Then once your milk starts to flow concentrate on trying to latch her. If you are still having problems i would consider the use of a contact nipple shield to help her grip onto something.

Personally, i certainly would never put a babies feet into cold water think that midwife needs her head looked at !

Stripping down to the vest and a nappy change would be sufficient. This would only be necessary if she is a really sleepy baby and going more than 3 hours at a time (daytime). You would be wakening her to keep up the breast stimulation to enable to build up an adequate milk supply. Unless she was premature or needing frequent feeds for other known reasons.

Hope this helps. Trust in your own insticts as a mum, they will never let you down .

Hi skidoodle - just a quick message to say I used avent nipple shields for the first four weeks as DS wouldn't latch on (search on here for my thread, full of panic that we would have to use them for ever and my supply would stop). Wehn I say four weeks, that is how long it took to stop using them entirely (ie just one feed a day at the end) but they were invaluable at getting him latched on. Every feed I would try him on the breast then if it didn't work, use a shield, and if he came off I would try the breast again. Eventually it worked and while it felt like ages at the time, now it doesn;'t and he feeds well.

Good luck

PS Also, I had four of them in a bowl of milton fluid which I replaced every 24 hours, so that I didn't have to be washing them in the middle of the night.

Skidoodle - how is it going this morning?

Hi, not read all replies so sorry if repeating anything that's been said. My 2 were both slow to get the hang of feeding and it took a lot of perseverance (and a bit of pain unfortunately). They were both quite sleepy too and I did have to do the whole waking and stripping them off to feed, as well as demand feeding when they actually cried for it. Never tried nipple shields myself so have no advice on those, but I did express off a tiny bit if I was engorged to make latch on easier for them. I remember spending up to an hour sometimes repositioning the latch on, which was very frustrating, especially when exhausted, so I have a lot of sympathy for you.

At least you know that there seems to be plenty of milk there. I was like this - had no concerns about supply, but my babies were just not very quick on the uptake initially. Didn't do top ups or anything. Just kept on with waking and feeding them. It did take them both a couple of weeks to get into the whole thing, but I was so glad I had carried on afterwards, as they both fed loads once they had got to grips with everything!

I do remember my DC1 pulling away suddenly when he was tiny and I had spent ages trying to get him on. Used to try and put him back straight away, but realised after a while that the milk was spraying out really quickly. Poor thing! After that I used to sometimes hold a muslin against me for a few seconds when he pulled away. It was too much for him I think!

Thanks for the messages and recommendations - I'm going to go out this morning and buy some nipple shields.

determination I'm intrigued by Silverette. Have to just do some research to make sure I won't react badly to the silver as I'm allergic to a lot of metals.

BellaBear - that bowl of Milton for the shields sounds a great tip, so I'm going to copy you on that.

FourPlusOne - how much did you express off to make it easier to latch on? I'm not sure how much to do. Knowing that perseverance pays off is really helpful. When a little baby is crying and upset, the instinct to just stop whatever it is that's upsetting them is so strong. I need to just keep trying to calm her down and then try again and not let myself get teary and feel I'm being cruel

katepol - things are fine this morning. The Community Midwife just visited, so we had the heel prick test trauma The midwife tried to help me get her latched on but we had no success. We tried the rugby hold and so far I think it's the most promising in terms of progress so I might stick with it for the moment. Lying down position is great but it leaves me trying to do everything with one arm when I feel I need two to get this done.

I've called the local breastfeeding helpline and left a number, but not heard back yet. Hopefully I'll get a call from them today.

So basically no change, but I feel more confident about licking this eventually. Yesterday both DH and my mother mentioned that I might end up having to ff and I was quite shaken by that. I think they were both just thinking of me and how upset I was feeling, but I don't feel we're anywhere near talking about such drastic action at this stage. I'm just a bit hormonal and oversensitive so I'm having all the feelings of being failure that I know rationally don't make any sense.

Goodness this is all very familiar to my experience with DD1! Hang on in there, skidoodle!

Just to add a disenting note - from my experiences I don't recommend nipple shields if you can crack it without. Of course if you can't get on at all without them then fair enough, but I found that although they provided a short term fix, long term they did for the breastfeeding..

More info here: www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/baby/wean-shield.html

I would reiterate what has been said and suggest that if possible you clear some space and time to relax together with your dd - skin to skin contact without the pressure to feed might really help. Maybe express a little first so that if DD feels like trying to latch on, you aren't engorged. I know "just relax together" sounds like a wishy washy solution, and you want to be doing something more proactive, but doing this really helped me.

Lastly the breastfeeding phone lines really are great so do, do call them!

Yep - shields of all types have drawbacks. Discuss with midwife, skidoodle, first.