3 day old NB. BF v painful - feel v awful

[tyaca]

hiya,

i was always ambigious about BF'ing and wasnt going to get stressed about it - just take on a day by day basis knowing formula ok if needs be. mainly aiming to get at min as much colostrom as poss in her.

she was born on friday morning and latched and fed within an hour. it was brilliant and i never thought it would be so good to see the way she looked at me when feeding.

managed a few more small feeds that day, but nothing as big as first feed til midnight - but she filled up two big nappies full of poo. then another reasonable feed at 2am. by reasonable, i mean ten min when i know she feeding.

then horrible night in hospital. lo v agitated, mw's on duty v unhelpful but basically said she not getting enough food and that she hungry and did i want formula? at that point she wouldnt bf, had been screaming for 4 hours, no offer of help from anyone (literally had to stand and sob at reception to even get a slightly rude bit of notice). fed her with that and she was obvs v hungry cause calmed down about half hour later.

next day, sat, a v nice mw talked me thru bf'ing again and had a gd 20min feed, but really really hurt in a way that hadnt before. hard not to sob thruout.

too painful and dif when tried to feed later that day and in end asked for more formula when in hospital. discharged yetserday (sat) afternoon and have tried lots of times but am coming to dread it. only v decent feed was with mw help, and even that i cried thru. mw said it will be easier when my milk comes thru properly/ said lo had v strong grip and hard gums and could see how sore she making my nipples already.

so only one proper bf yesterday and one today and rest of the time formula have had quite a few sessions where she's latched had 5-10 gulps that seems like she's feeding but then she stops.

like i said, i wasnt going to get stressed, but even those people who say they didnt b-feed, usually get thru at least a week or two, dont they? also, first 18 hours went so well and i really enjoyed and it didnt hurt at all (and she was def feeding those few times) - so am gutted cause now want to do, where before i did not mind so much

will speak to profs tomo, but feel so new and unsure about all that i thought a shout out into the mn ether might provide some wise words and support

tia

thank you all so much. managing noit to cry reading support. only tried once today and didnt work . dh just got pump as am scared ofdrying up at mo. swear i was producing more before she came along. there is no way i can produce the amount of milk she drinking at mo- but any better than none/ cmw round tomo hoping for more help. but do need a bfc too i think.

gill and leesmum nicw to hear from you. now understand why people disappear once lo comes onto scene

sad for you tyaca as you need some help NOW not tomorrow....you need to speak to someone in real life. Get onto those phonelines

I pick up from what you say that you are not sure if breastfeeding is for you, and the problems you are having are sapping your confidence. You say you can't produce the milk your baby wants - you are day 4, and no one produces gallons! If you are judging how much you ought to produce by looking at how much formula your baby will take, then you looking at the wrong thing!

Your milk will not dry up instantly. Worrying that it will simply go is unnecessary - but you do need to take action asap. Expressing has to be done often...at least 8 times in 24 hours, and on both breasts at least once. It's a hassle, and getting the baby to take the milk is better. Trying to get her on to the breast once just isn't going to cut it, sorry - she needs to be skin to skin with you, for a lot of the time, able to self-attach at any time - and a call to the bf lines will confirm how helpful that will be.

Hope this helps, but the best thing is to speak and maybe see someone. What did the midwife say?

yup - agree with tiktok - if you look a the amount on the back of the formula tins you'll never produce that much yourself! Just keep trying, keep trying, keep trying, and then top up with formula if you need to afterwards. I still need to be reminded sometimes to feed him as it's so easy to think I fed him two hours ago and he can't possibly be hungry, or to think my boobs won't have filled up again. Right, one unhappy boy this evening - had better attend. Hope the CMW is helpful for you.

Hoping you had better luck this evening Tyaca. You really need a babymoon - take to your bed - plenty of sarnies and drinks for you, lots of skin to skin and availability for latching at leisure for dd.
Hope the m/w helps tomorrow. If she is unable to assist practically herself, ask her to refer you for more help.
Please don't feel gutted - you are doing really well. Don't forget if you do express, the amount you get has no bearing on what dd will be getting from you - babies are much more efficient!
Fingers crossed for tomorrow x

Poor old you. I found, esp with my first there was a period in the first week where my nipples were toughening up, as in the new shoes analogy, but feeding was toe curling.

Is it her latch? My dd1 was a sipper, and wouldn't open her mouth enough, and I would end up (again, during week 1) squashing my nipple so it was flatter and had a couple of drops on for the smell, and then 'shoving' it in when she did open her mouth! That way she wasn't sipping on just the nipple. it took a good 24 hours for her to get the hang of it all. sorry if tmi, or not much help

Have you tried different positions? Lying down is a good one for some people. and try to relax, your let down works better if you are relaxed. Dose up on paracetamol, ibuprofen if you can tolerate it, and a glass of wine with a abar of chocolate work wonders to help.

Don't panic if you don't appear to be producing much, something that has always stuck in my head is that a newbies stomach is the size of a walnut.

Get on the phone first thing and see if one of those nice bfc ladies can sit with you and help. It does get better, honest, my bf spent hours in your shoes, and went on to successfully feed her 2 ds's. However, if you decide it's all too much, well, don't beat yourself up. you'r still doing what is best for your dd iykwim.

Don't know how much help I would be, but I'll be up for the next hour or so if you do need to chat...

Tyaca how are you getting on? Have you had any help with BFC? Take care and let us know how you get on xxx

hello all. i now have a sore bum cos have been sat in one place feeding all afternoon

milk came in last night. awful pain, couldnt sleep. or feed. or express. awful, esp as i was dripping with milk. dd wouldnt latch (which she's been ok with), and got hysterical as ever, boxing my boobs as i tried to position her

cmw round today - had just fed dd formula, but luckily she was still hungry. basically, boobs just way too engorged. solid. so cmw just put a teat from a bottle on my nipple and it worked perfectly. much easier for dd. also she swaddled dd v firmly, which dd hates at time, but its stops the fight at the boob as she kicks and punches, sucks hands and flails in general. much easier to position. she not really stopped feedingsince lunctime. obvs is slower than fornula, but not that much slower, also havr been ctaching loads in cups. its good with teat to see how much she getting . dh just bought nipple guards --- goota go. one handed.

and ty so much all.

esp tick tock sterness! checked out the nurting position website lsst night and had wonderful couple of skin to skin hours, no feeding but so lovely. fingers crossed things ok from here onwards. not only has she had loads this afternoon, already have 3floz expressed. boobs still solid - but just chnged top and feel a bit less like a sticky milk mionster

tyaca - great that the cmw has helped and given you confidence that you can do it - really important

Please, please take care with the bottle teat on the nipple thing, and the nipple shields/guards - they can act as a short term, temporary problem-solver, so no panic, but they both have longer-term drawbacks which your mw will know about.

Just saying....just in case

you are so strict tiktok ... hoping that once my boobs have a bit more give in them, we can move onto proper contact.

out of curiosity. should she be feeding non-stop? its been over 3 hours of near constant plus the expressed, and she still wants more. shes not puking which she was doing with formula.

its good cause have so much to be got rid of at moment, but will get shorter right and any thoughts as to why??

at being strict

I probably am, a bit, because I have seen sad things happen when people did not know stuff

Feeding non-stop is fine...she is probably taking smaller amounts some of the time, and controlling her intake beautifully (harder to do with formula), and enjoying the closeness with you...100 per cent normal. After all , less than a week ago she was inside you, so you are familiar in every way, and it's so comforting and lovely for her to retain that closeness.

As babies grow, they get used to the outside, and don't need as much constant contact.

Breastfeeding supports this close relationship, and makes it easy to develop

Hurrah for tyaca and tiktok!

Tyaca, just wanted to say that it can be quite a shock when you first realise just how much (ie, for such long periods of time) newborns want to nurse. Sometimes it's lovely, but sometimes it's really frustrating and makes you want to leave home. Don't worry if you find yourself getting a bit irritated by it occasionally - as tiktok says, it's all a phase and will pass.

ty policywonk and tiktok and all. yes, she doesnt ever want to stop and has been puking while nursing, which seems like such a waste of milk. seems to hurt quite a bit more with nipple guard compared to bottle teat. guess also have done such a long time today. formula for any feeds before 6am i think, (know lots of people wont approve, but still hurting now am ion nipple guard) and hopefully ok night slpee and look forward a bit to tomo,

now, if my stitches would just start to heal and dd would consider falling asleep in cot as opposed on one of us then we might be somewjere near deal-able with. why did no-one tell me that everything would be MORE painful after pg?

Well done Tyaca!
You may think differently about the formula feeds in the am when your boobs have been growing overnight - lol
Keep it up and hope the sore nipples calm down soon.

well done both of you and hooray for a fab cmw

puking is fine, so long as it's 'overflow'. just have lost of muslins to hand to mop up.

don't know if it's of any use but I found when really engorged to let a little out, ie stand in a warm shower and wait for the flow to slow! it's then easier fo lo to latch on. Good luck with the sore nipples, hope they feel better soon.

Sending hugs, I remember what that was like. I found expressing a bit in a warm bath helped me get more comfortable.

Has anyone mentioned Lansinoh for sore boobs? Also v helpful.

Ah yeah, they have. Anyway, hope it keeps improving for you. More hugs.

ty guys, just expressed a load with machine. first time i've managed to get it to work for me. like a real dumbass, i had a slight incline up in the nozzle thing. did the first five min, removed the suction bit and lo - milk everywhere except in pot. have 2floz done. going to try to get another ounce in there for DH to use later. also, my nips have changed a bit. which is good, right? harder and redder and bigger. that should help the suck bit, shouldnt it?

tyaca - why are you expressing?? Sorry to sound strict again

Now you are feeding direct, and often, expressing isn't necessary and could cause problems

If the baby is not feeding well, or at all, then expressing is needed to 'tell' the body to make milk.

It can also be useful to express a little, to make the breasts softer, if the fullness is making it hard for the baby to latch on.

But in your situation, with engorgement making bf uncomfortable, it's really not the greatest idea....what you're doing with expressing more than just a touch is 'telling' your breasts to make more milk than your baby actually needs, and cranking up the supply.

Then, just to make things a bit worse , you plan for your baby to have this in a bottle later, instead of a direct breastfeed - but that 'missing a feed' thing will make your breasts even more full and painful.

Maybe I haven't got the full picture here, so sorry if all this is confusing, but do talk about whether expressing is the right thing for you at the moment with the midwife.

hey tiktok - be strict all you want. do understand that i'm prob not doing this all as should be, but trying to do things in small bits

reason i'm expressing is that there are times when she's just not going to boob, is v hungrier and getting v upset. happened at about 5 this morning and also a couple of hours again. nice to be able to give her b milk then. cmw round again on friday - i'm going to need help with getting away from niiple shield, will also ask about ths

out of curiousity, would you advise against expressing unless necc to increase supply? been reading thru old threads re drinking and BF and have come across a couple of posts from you in which you make case against pump and dump. i'd like my dh to be able to feed dd at least some of the time, so assume i will continue to express, even when boobs softer.

so far so good today btw .

OK - so the expressed breastmilk is there as a back up, when she's not feeding well? I can understand that, but you need to make sure this does not extend the gaps between breastfeeds, and you may need to express again, after you have given the ebm, so your body 'understands' to make more milk.

Expressing for fun or convenience or to share feeding - no objection to that at all! Mother's choice. No one should feel pressured to do it, and dads don't need to feel they have to feed to bond, but as long as everyone is ok about it, and the mum knows not to use it to extend the gaps between feeds (at least not until bf is well-established, weeks and weeks in), then it's up to them

I found bfing excruciating. I had a string of different midwives coming round every day to see me, with my massive boobs out, snivelling and begging for help. Each mw gave different advice about latching on - sometimes opposite advice. No-one's fault really, there were staffing probs and they were drafting in 'supply' (or whatever the term is) at the time. Add to this the fact that my dd (3 weeks early) didn't seem to 'get' it - she wouldn't open her mouth like you see in those latching on pictures- she never did that once. She would suck for an hour, then start crying for food immediately afterwards, so obviousl;y hadn't been getting milk. On the day I gave up, I'd tried to feed her solidly for 6 hours, and she was still rooting...

I gave up after 8 days, but I was GUTTED and still am gutted about it. If she gets eczema I know I'll beat myself up about it.

Persevere???? I will be trying to next time.

Good luck!!!!

This all really rang bells with me, so I thought I'd share some experiences.. Apologies in advance, this is going to be long..

There was very little breastfeeding support with DD1. Instead we had various MWs trying to shove DD1 onto the breast, this left her very unwilling to feed. She was obviously starving, crying her head off, and we were two new parents in deep fear that we were already getting it all wrong. So at the MWs suggestion we started to consider some formula. It was decided for us when she developed jaundice before my milk came in and the paediatrician wanted her fluid intake to be high. Result - she got the formula, with me expressing as hard as I could so that she got some breastmillk as well. When we got home, and seeing she was still breast resistant, the CMW suggested nipple shields. This worked reasonably well and for the first time I was actually able to breastfeed her. It felt like magic. So much so that I became scared of going back to the whole fighting at the breast thing, and even though I had every intention of giving up the nipple shields I never did. I tried a few times but it was always a struggle so I never persevered. Because she'd had formula from the off, we kept giving formula too so my husband could help feed. So in the end I suppose it worked but it was a rather uneasy compromise. The nipple shields slowed down the feeding rate, which meant feeds took ages and ultimately I think affected my supply. It was too fiddly to feed that way when out and about so we gave her formula then as well. By 6 months, she was a mostly formula fed baby and I gave up the last few breastfeeds.

Fast forward to DD2. This time at the hospital there was a great midwife, who explained very clearly something that no one had even thought to mention the first time. She said "Your baby will get hungry before your milk comes in. This will make her cry a lot. This will be upsetting for you but it won't in the long run harm her. Just try and relax and put up with the crying and let her drink what you have, and your milk will eventually come in and everything will be fine."

I can't tell you how revelatory this was. I'm sure it seems really obvious reading it now, but nothing is obvious when you've just given birth. It meant that rather than trying to make DD2 feed, I just held her and soothed her crying as best I could, and eventually she did start latching on. And on and on and on. And yes it did hurt. But the milk came in and she got full and stopped wanting to feed all the time and we haven't looked back. She is now a happy thriving exclusively breastfed 3 month old.

I'm not sure what conclusions can be drawn from this long story! I have two beautiful and healthy DDs, so maybe the conclusion is that as long as babies are fed somehow it will be okay. Maybe its that when you are properly informed and supported and therefore more relaxed breastfeeding becomes much easier. Or maybe its that all babies are different! I do wish I'd had decent support the first time, it would have saved a lot of misery. And I wish I'd tried harder at the start to get rid of the nipple shields as ultimately the use of them was what finished my breastfeeding DD1. But if I've learnt anything from my experiences with my DDs its that a happy mummy makes for a happy baby. You do your best and you don't beat yourself up about what you didnt do, and somehow it all works out.

And this is for Potatofactory - guess which DD has eczema? Thats right - DD2!

Tyaca, am only occasional mnetter but remember you as Antonia Forest fan
Keep going! Breastfeeding can be agony for the first few weeks, even if latch is right imo. You just have to grit your teeth and bear it and use lots of nipple cream - the analogy about it being like breaking in a pair of shoes is very true. But after week 3/4 it should all start getting easier - I was in pain with both dds initially but thanks to a - being totally sure I got the latch right and b - just suffering it all worked out and I bf dd1 until 13 months and am still bfing dd2 at 9 months. But it is HARD WORK at first. But you'll have it made up to you when you don't have to lug around bottles, formula, steriliser and can enjoy lovely snuggly feeds - there comes a point when you honestly can both do it without thinking and it gives you so much pleasure. On the other hand, if it's making you miserable just don't worry about it, as far as I can see my friends who didn't bf are just as bonded as the ones who did, it's a purely personal thing. Good luck!