Moving from mixed feeding back to breast..........encouragement and help please

[PeckaRolloverAgain]

To cut a waffly tale short DD 8 weeks over the last few days has been almost bottle fed except 2-3 breastfeeds a day.

Not sure if our problem is nipple confusion or possible tongue tie (meeting with a breastfeeding counsellor tomorrow to discuss this).

DD started to refuse to feed ocassionally a week or so again, after introducing an ocassional bottle - I thought I was ok with moving to bottles but she quickly started to refuse the breast at most feeds and getting really, very agitated if I even attempted to put her on the breast. The only time she would feed is overnight on teh night feed.

I was/am gutted at the refusal and the realisation that breastfeeding was coming to a premature end if I didnt do something.

After talking to the lovely marslady, a lactation consultant for doula uk and then emailling a breastfeeding counsellor in my area it seems likely that tongue tie might be an issue. They have also encouraged me that all is not lost and I shoudl be able to get it back.

The last day or so with going very slowly I have managed to get her to take the boob at a few feeds but the feeds seem pretty short and ineffective before she refuses to go back on. Her latch has deteriorated and she slips off often.

I am seeing BFC tomorrow who hopefully can tell me if tongue tie is an issue and give me some help and support with positioning, latch etc

I just hope that it is not too late as she is having rather a large amount of formula/ebm and because she is refusing often im finding it hard to give my breasts the extra stimulation they need to increase milk supply.

Im guessing that my milk supply must be pretty low by now but there is still milk there when i express/squeeze and she feeds pretty happily from me on the overnight feed.

anyone else done this and managed it?

the wee tube? i haven't tried it, was the method of topping up that i was going to use, but never did (although with hindsight i should have done, ds was well skinny for a while). your bfc will be able to tell you more.

I used one for a bit, was a bit fiddly but not that hard. Not as useful as having him latched on for a 15 hr flight in terms of increasing my supply.

But then again, ds was refusing everything rather than just the breast (reflux). If the issue is that she's finding the breast frustrating it may help.

hi everyone, thanks for the words of advice

DD fed twice from me in the night nicely and started her morning feed from me before refusing, topped her up then but she only had 2oz as opposed to a full 4-5oz bottle feed so thats all good.

My plan is to offer breast first whenever she will take it and only give bottle if she wont and is hungry. Have also been expressing and have just about enough to be topping up only with ebm - if i can keep expressing maybe will be able to phase the formula out.

i got date wrong for bfc - its tomorrow i see her!

Hi Pecka, dd was much older when she started to refuse the breast (5 months) and slightly different as she was almost entirely breastfed with just one bottle a day. I know how upsetting it is when they refuse to feed from you-like you I had also thought I was ready to stop bf until dd decided that she was!

I couldn't express anything so we stopped bf after a couple of weeks of this but was really tough-I would cry everytime I saw someone breastfeeding for quite a while!

Sounds like your supply is still good and expressing isn't a problem so I would say to just persevere. Offering the breast first at every feed is advice I was given-also if she refused to feed normally to just try dreamfeeding her during her daytime naps as well as at night. This didn't work for us as she would wake fully and scream blue murder but it could be worth a try!

Good luck!

The day started well but ended badly - with DD refusing adamantly to even put nipple in her mouth.

Im getting REALLY worried about my supply - boobs seem to have almost returned to prepregant size and shape and just dont feel like they did.

My dd1 had nipple confusion at around 8 weeks thru until around 12ish weeks. This was due to me supplementing with formula (using bottles)as i had recurring mastitis and one breast completely stopped producing at all. It was so bad that my dd would not allow me to hold her in the cradle position even when my breasts were completely covered. I felt worthless. Completely rejected.

Anyway, What i did was ditched the bottles. i would feed her using a large feeding syringe (free from chemist) and also the Medela Softcup Advanced Feeder. This meant that her sucking needs were not satisfied and usually when she was really tired or actually sleeping i could get her to latch onto me using a nipple shield.

Then i started a mission to get dd to associate my breasts with a "Happy Feeling". The way i done this was by laying dd on the floor and blowing raspberries on her tummy until she laughed, then i gently and quickly touched her face with my bare breast. We done this nearly every waken hour throughout the day for about 10 days then she started to show loving signs of the breast again. She would happily cuddle into my breast and would let me hold her happily whilst i was clothed or not. Then suddenly whilst playing "Happy Breast Time!" she quickly rooted and latched on - i was on all fours on top of her but managed to stay there until she was finished! I honestly felt like opening the house windows and screaming to let the world know how excited i was.. this was around 2 weeks after we started it. Then we spent about a further week around the house.. sleeping together naked, bathing together and playing together naked!

Before long we were back in full swing and the bottles were long in the bin.. we managed to continue BFing until she was just over 2 and she self weaned as i got pregnant again.

This was a really difficult time and i had to be 100% dedicated to getting her back to the breast, the rest of my life was placed on hold!

Here are some other tips;
dealing with nipple confusion

If you are really concerned about your supply, why not get a tea or tincture to boost your supply. This will increase your supply and give you some reasusurance and confidence to concentrate on getting her back-to-the-breast.

Wow - determination, this must be why you chose your name

Pecka - I hope things are going well. good luck for tomorrow.

determination - thats amazing, hopefully i can show as much determination as you!

overnight was a nightmare, for the first time she wouldnt feed on the night feed so had to start messing around with bottles in the night!

she took a good feed this morning though - both boobs and is now sleeping. should wake up for next feed whilst im at the BFC's.

Willl report back later!

Good Luck

Haved you tried lots of cuddles, skin to skin and feeding in the bath?
You sound pretty stressed about it (quite understandably), perhaps if you can try not to stress too much it might make things a bit easier for you both.
Hope the bfc is helpful.

Pecka you likely are completely stressed but anyone would be if they felt the rejection that your feeling (and i felt) and it is impossible to relax when trying. That is why it is important to create a happy feeling at the breast again. Please try this as this is what got my dd over it and it helped with my feelings of distress too.

Good luck for today x

I wont be too presumptious just yet but

Went to see BFC today, its not tongue tie - she just has a naturally slightly heart shaped tongue when she pokes it out but it is nice and mobile.

Spoke to the BFC about all of my woes and DD started stirring, displaying early feeding cues so i picked her up then and she latched on but had a very stop, start, slip off, shallow latch feed. (even tho I was very pleased she had gone on at all!!)

BFC helped me to realise that she isnt rejecting me or unable or unwilling to feed just for whatever reason has become frustrated at the breast, exaserbated (sp??) by introduction of bottles and thus lessening milk supply.

She got me to lift my top up and lie down and just place DD on my stomach. she began to cry but then quietened and started rooting and climbing and BAM latched herself on to my breast and fed really smoothly and well for a good few minutes, she then lay there for a while just enjoying being next to me, having a nuzzle and a lick then went onto otherside and finished her feed!!

Whilst this was happening I felt so relaxed and happy and realised that I had lost touch of the wonderful part of breastfeeding.

i have been getting tense and paranoid, blaming myself, thinking breastfeeding was over, feeling guilty etc etc and relying more and more on bottles.

we agreed a plan of trying to increase my supply to make the breast become even more satisfying to DD, continuing with the biological nurturing positions and only use the top up if I really think seh needs it.

Not sure if that positioning has helped DD to relearn how to breastfeed or if i have just relaxed but she has breastfed from me all day - only 1oz of topup used all day!

Feel so much better about it and have a renewed enthusiasm for continuing to breastfeed.

wonderful. fingers crossed.

Well done to both of you- A tremendous effort!

thanks everyone - she refused completely to feed at about 6pm - this is the worst time of day for it. I resorted to 2oz ebm which brings todays top up total to 3oz.

She did however go on to have a short feed from both sides just before i put her down to "bed"

Fingers crossed for night feeds tonight!

I'm impatient for my supply to increase no!

are you on domperidone, pecka?

nope, would i be a candidate for it?

do you just buy motilium or see gp?

i was prescribed it by a hospital bfc, i thought it made a big difference. you could ask gp then just buy it if he/she is unwilling.

Is it motilium I would be asking for?

are there any links available i could print and show?

i was thinking about getting some fenugeek tomorrow but not sure how useful that is!

get it all! fenugreek does make you honk, though. and i liked a spot of guinness.
i was told it was called domperidone but the pack was marked motilium. i wonder if there's anything on kellymom?

some words on the subject from dr [http://www.expressyourselfmums.co.uk/article.asp?subcategory_id=11&case_id=43 jack newman]]

have you tried smushing your breast down as she feeds? there's a proper name for it, hopefully someone will know, it helps the milk come through. oh god i tried everything. google dr jack some more, his site is good, has videos and everything...

I found fenugreek really effective. I took the more milk plus capsules, which also have blessed thistle, as that combination was recommended in the newman website.