sorry bit long - pregnant with number 2, failed at bf'ing with number 1 - desperately want to get it right this time

[sorryihaventaclue]

my ds was 4 weeks premature and born by emergo c section after he headbutted my placenta out as he engaged ( had placenta praevia). He was then in scbu and i didn't even see him for nearly 24 hours and he was being tube fed because he was a bit poorly and jaundiced.

Cut a very long and traumatic story short, he and I then struggled with b/fing, as we tried during the day, during the night i would be expressing on the maternity ward, and he in SCBU. The SCBU wouldn't let him out until he regained weight to his birth weight. In the end (after a week) we decided to go with formula in a desperate bid to get him home, and i expressed to top up.

2 breastfeeding counsellors later and the only way i could get him to latch on was with the use of 2 cushions (am quite big in the boob department unfortunately) and so incredibly impractical and he was miserable, that after a week i threw in the towel which i am racked with guilt about and to this day blame myself every time he is ill.

I so desperately want to get it right this time and am already really stressed about it. This isn't helped by a slot on GMTV today about SIDS saying that the next bit of advice coming out is that breastfeeding is also preventative.

I'm 20 weeks pregnant and sobbing about this. Please don't advise the NCT because the other new mums that i met there were so incredibly judgemental and unfriendly i don't really want to repeat the experience.

Does anyone have any advice? Am desperate.

Hi Sorry...

Poor you - sounds like you had a horrible time with dS. Please try not to worry about what will happen with BF this time as you will have a different experience and a different baby and chances are that everything will be fine. I 'failed' to BF DD after a traumatic early delviery and still beat myself up about it but I exlcusively BF DS until he was 14 months. It did require work to get it right but I had a very support BF counsellor and used to go to BF coffee morning for support. My Sister in law has also just got through 6 weeks of BF'ing her DS after 'failing' with DD. Both my DD and mu niece are very healthy children despite being FF.

I would read up on BF but try not to overly worry about it. I'm sure it will be fine.

Hi, Sorry to hear about how difficult your breastfeeding went with your ds. Every baby is different and there is no reason why you should not be able to successfully breastfeed your baby. I'm not an expert but there are breastfeeding councillers who come on this site and can offer more advice but I would if you can ask for your baby to be placed on you as soon as possible and let your baby lie on your chest and your baby should route for your breast and start feeding on their own it is amazing. If you can't do this then try and nurse as soon as you can. Let your midwife know now how you feel and say you want someone to help you in the hospital they can put this in your notes now. You can stay in hospital until you are happy with your breastfeeding. I did not leave until I was.

I had a complete nightmare bf ds1, a truly horrid exp. When I had ds2, I went back to the books, reminded myself of what to do, and as soon as he popped out, I sat up and latched him on properly - ie stroked my nipple down his nose until his mouth opened and then he fed straightaway. I never looked back, to the extent that I grieved that I had not had it with ds1, and also to the extent that I couldn't bottle feed at all with him, which became a problem when he was about 9 months. I also fed him qas I wanted to - no timing feeds, watching position, just lying down/sitting up/walking around, wherever I wanted to adn I am sure ignoring all the proper advice really helped my confidence. Good luck hon - and keep posting - we're here for you.

La Leche league
Association of Breastfeeding Mothers
Breastfeeding Network

all have counsellors who will be ready to help you even before your have your baby, with birthplan and maybe talking through what happened last time.

Bf often comes much easier second time around, honestly. Sorry you had such a traumatic time first time round.

Why feel guilty when you did your best? Or do you feel there was something else you could have done? Sounds to me you did what you had to at the time. Bf was sabotaged for you by circumstances and possibly bad advice - how is that your fault?

Sorry you had a bad experience with NCT. It can be very variable. I remember feeling that I stood out because I WAS still bf when lots of other mothers were using bottles. Not that I felt criticised though.

Is there a Breastfeeding Cafe in your area? That can be helpful.

bumping for you

Sounds like you had a lot on your plate with your first child. It is hard enough getting the hang of everything first time round without having to deal with all you went through!

I didn't have the problems you had with my first DD but I didn't do particularly well BFing and by 11 weeks she was on formula. For some reason I found it much easier with DD2 (despite the pregnancy being a bit traumatic) and managed to BF her until she was 11 months. Having big boobs is sometimes quite a useful perk with BF IMO.

All I wanted to say is that you may well find it much easier this time round and don't worry about all the pro BF advice, just do your best - that is all any of us can do. I'm sure you'll get lots of more practical advice on here than that though

btw - my DD2, who was BF much more than DD1, has always got ill more easily than DD1.

Hi Sorry.
Three bits advice from a nonexpert mum with v big boobs and two happy and well-fed boys.

1. I found that the only position that has ever worked is to feed sitting up with a large cushion on my lap for the baby to lie on. I then have to support my boob with my hand. I have been feeding one or other of my boys for the last few years and have never managed handsfreefeeding. I need to use the hand to get the nipple where it needs to be IYSWIM. Also I found I had to put the baby at a quite different angle to what the books say as my nipples just don't point in the same direction as those pert breasted ladies in the pictures!

2. When the baby arrives don't feel under pressure to get it right straight away. With both my boys I had to wait until all the medic types had disappeared and I was feeling both more awake and relaxed. The midwives kept trying to be helpful but I found we got on much better on our own as we were more relaxed and focused on the job in hand (literally). With DS1 He didn't feed properly for nearly 24 hours as we were both exhasuted but this didn't prevent things working out really well.

3. If someone starts giving advice that is not helping then just smile sweetly, nod your head and wiat until soneone more helpful comes along.

Good luck. Let us know how you get on.

you are all so so lovely, thank you so much you have no idea how much you've all helped. I think the bit about waiting til the medics etc have disappeared is a good point, i got sick to death of scbu nurses poking my nipples in front of several young fathers in the scbu to see their own babies, it was humiliating and definitely counter productive.

I felt like my beautiful new baby and i were exhibits and all i wanted to do was bond with him and be able to feed him properly. My DH was amazing throughout and still doesn't really understand my guilt and feeling of failure though.

Thank you all of you.

Yep, What love2sleep said her her first point is exactly what I found too, could never do the hands free thing (big boobs too) MW gave me all sorts of advice with DD1 and it just felt like a huge comepetition to get it right. With DD2 I followed lovetosleep's point 3 - works a treat . You'll find your own way.

There was a really funny thread on here a few weeks ago about how to BF with big boobs and I think there were some interesting points made on it, might be worth looking it up now for future reference.

Your DH probably doesn't understand your feeling of guilt because he cannot see how you can feel guilty about something which was so out of your control. That said, the guilt feeling must be very real for you. I hope you come to terms with it in your own way as there is nothing worse than feeling you have let your children down is there?

I just wanted to say that I didn't bf ds1. Long story behind it, but I still feel the odd pang of guilt, nearly 3 years on.
However, I was determined to bf ds2. I set myself small bf goals (if I could only bf for week, then at least he had colostrum; if it was for a month, then he's had a good start etc) Now, at 10mths old, he's decided he doesn't want bf.
Maybe I was lucky that I had very good mw/hv, who told me trust in my instincts, and that every mother and child feeds differently, iyswim.
And totally agree with smiling at people giving you unhelpful advice, then ignoring every single word of it!

hey , what a terrible time you had. The guilt and sobbing sound awful.

my best advice is to stay on here and try to find confidence to talk to people you trust; and to call one of the BF helplines, if only to get the emotional stuff off your chest to people who will understand. you don't have to go to an NCT group to get advice from their helpline, or try BFN or ABM as suggested below...

Once you've got some of the emotional stuff sorted, we can help hold your hand. and maybe try searching for messages from JARM on this list who BF after not having good experiences earlier. Her posts and the support she got might help you...?

i hired a BF consultant with dd2 (didnt manage to bf dd1) and it was the best thing i ever did. we got back from the hospital on the monday morning and she came round monday afternoon. she spend 2 hrs with me, teaching me how to do it. it was worth every penny. i also felt more comfortable telling her what things/concerns etc because i was paying her iykwim. it was a different relationship and she was very objective and helped me find ways that would help me BF. she watched, guided dd2's head to nipple and told me what to look out for - it really was worth every penny.

BF dd2 for 8 months and then ds1 for 1 year (just gave up a couple of ago).

Hi Sorry..

For what it's worth I had a nightmare with DD1 even though we had what the medics described as a "textbook" birth. i ended up in in hospital under general anesthetic to sort out abscess. I gave up bfing - still feel bad about it.

Fifteen months later and with DD2 bfeeding has been easy peasy. I had C section because of complications but the feeding was straightforward. Midwife popped baby on me and off she went. I couldn't believe it after all that had happened before! We're still going 8 months later (and I'm back at work so just feeding morning and night).

All I can say from my experience is make sure midwives put baby onto you quick pronto; keep baby with you and feed on demand. you are entitled to privacy so get them to pull curtains while you get the hang of it. I've big boobs and found cradle hold with pillows/cushions and feeding lying down best until DD2 got bigger.

I got in touch with bfeeding co-ordinator at hospital ahead of birth. I also spoke to La Leche League and got their book the womanly art of breastfeeding.

Good luck every baby is different it's hard but try to relax and not to beat yourself up about it -- go with the flow.

Just wanted to say...

From what I read you did not 'fail' at breastfeeding. You were a wonderful mum and did your best in difficult circumstances. You did not fail.

Your DS is lucky he had a mummy who tried so hard to bfeed even in those circumstances, and your unborn baby is equally lucky that despite your difficulties last time you're going to do your best this time. Good for you.

Hope you get the help you need. x

I had many problems with bf DS1 so was also incredibly stressed by it all the second time round. It hasn't been plain sailing again and after a few weeks I expressed exclusively but am now back to some breastfeeding. While I would not recommend expressing as it is very time consuming, it got me through as I knew DS2 was getting breastmilk while I could relax a bit and try to improve the latch.

If I had another child I would be a whole lot more relaxed now as I would try my hardest at bf but know that expressing is always there as a back up (something I wish I knew with DS1).

Hope it goes much better this time round.

Please do try NCT - not the mums, if you have had a bad experience, but the breastfeeding counsellors. They are trained not to be judgemental - I promise you.

my experience with ds1 was not quite so traumatic although time in scbu certainly damaged my confidence and although we mised fed for a few months, i gave up way ealrier than i had planned to.

With ds2 I wa determined to get it right. I was extremely stubborn and accepted that the first month of his life at least would be devoted to getting BFing established.

Now I am having the opposite problem - getting him to STOP at age 3!

I remember posting on Mn asking for top tips for getting it right. I will have a search and see whether I can find the thread.

Good luck - I know where you are coming from

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I tried phoning the NCT bf phoneline several times for advice but never managed to get through. Is there a best time for the OP to ring if she wants this support?

Thanks again for all the messages, I'll definitely follow up on the la leche book and will search for the thread from JARM.

I'll try NCT helpline again I guess, but as love2sleep says i had problems last time getting through. As it's likely that i'll have a c section again do they let you have the baby straight away as hopefully this time it wouldn't be emergency circumstances under general?

My mw was utterly useless last time, I'd been discharged from hospital for 2 weeks last time before my mw came to visit, the HV was livid, and was much more helpful but I think that it was all a bit too little too late. I've already diarised to rent an expressing pump before this one's even got here just in case as well. I didn't even have bottles last time as i was so convinced i'd be BF'ing! DH had to do a supermarket sweep with instructions from the SCBU nurses.

Thanks all you're really really helping.

It is helpful to put a newbaby to the breast sooner rather than later after birth, but beware of forcing a sleeping baby. There is no pressing nutritional need for a newborn to have a good feed for several hours. I knew a sad case of a woman who was woken up by an auxiliary nurse some 6 hours or less after a caesarean and the sleeping newborn was forced onto the breast, which it then rejected. Not surprising really. The mother used a pump for about a week and then ff from then on.

ooh thank you elasticwoman. My mw this time seems really good, so i'll talk to her about my birth plan and make sure there's something in there as well....I'll be like a woman possessed given I'll (hopefully) be awake this time.

Virtually all calls are answered now on the NCT bf line either directly or shortly after with a call back

Other things you can put in the birth plan in order to give bf a chance are:

1. I wish to bf, so please don't give my baby a bottle (of anything) in hospital.

2. I wish to co-sleep with my baby in hospital.

If you have a choice of hospitals, look for one which has Baby Friendly status.

Make sure your birth partner (dh?) knows your wishes and is ready to support them.

thanks Elasticwoman. DH will definitely support my wishes but not if it compromises baby's care, so for example what happens if they whip the new one into SCBU too? I was allowed to "room in" with DS for the last 2 nights but before that they didn't have the facilities. I'll definitely put all of your suggestions in my plan though, thanks so much.

If, heaven forbid, your new baby is in SCBU or for any reason unable to suck, you can express and offer your milk by cup, spoon or feeding tube and this is something a bf counsellor can help with. If you have difficulty producing enough milk because baby is prem, you should have first call on the human milk bank if there is one.

When my neighbour gave birth to a baby with Down's, she gave up bf within 24 hours (it is v hard to bf such a baby) and told me she didn't even want to think about it (despite having successfully bf previous babies). She was in such a state I didn't dare to make the offer I wanted to make - to give her my milk, as I was still lactating and have had the necessary blood test. I really wish I had at least offered now.