please help - SO hacked off with GP & H V and feeling really crap about BF (again)

[Caz10]

sorry i feel like i am always whinging on here...

to cut a long story as short as poss, dd was born quite small, 2nd bottom centile. she tracked it for about 5 weeks, then dropped weight a little bit and went down to the bottom centile (0.4th). Cue much pressure from HV to change to formula, finally agreed to top-ups which i did for a few days then stopped.

i know that hv is a muppet re bf-ing - gems of info/advice have included

• she's too small to have a very strong suck

• a lot of mums find their milk dries up at 5 weeks

she keeps commenting on my "bf-ing problems" although she's never once watched me feed or offered advice on it.

thankfully i got in touch with the BfN, and through them the BF advisor from our maternity unit. They have helped me enormously with my latch, and with assuring me that DD is ok.

dd is 10 weeks now and i had to take her to get weighed today (ok i know i don't have to go, but i am a 1st timer and scared in case she has lost weight again). she has gained a little weight, tracking the bottom centile, and jumped another one (3rd jump) in length.

HV STILL going on about top-ups, she clearly thinks I'm mad for only bf-ing. she is conferring with the gp (who last week again advised formula and has referred us to paeds) and calling me back, no doubt to tell me again to go on formula.

i am hacked off and so demoralised.

aarg.

I'm imagining, Bobbysmum, that you have not had a small but perfectly healthy baby, and had to put up with the surprisingly uninformed caP many of them dish up without a backwards thought. Most mothers know when something is wrong with their baby. I know people who have struggled to get diagnoses for theirs for weeks or even months, and have been treated like hysterical madwomen for seeking help when medical personnel were lightly dismissing them. I also know many women in exaclty the OP's situation (myself) included who have been made miserable for months* by ill-founded concern over their small baby's health.

I also have as friends some 2 dozen doctors of various types, and I know that they are not god.

So yes, I think it quite reasonable for the OP to avoid medical people, all things being equal (dirty/wet nappies, hitting milestones etc..) if she feels that her baby is actually fine. It's a question of preserving her own mental health as much as anything. And of course she will ultimately do what is best for her baby. How ridiculous to suggest that because I recommend her not to go near them, she will not go near them even if there is something wrong. You'd have to be mad.

Sorry for the aside, Caz.

I agree with BBmum, it is unrealistic to advise a new mum to not go near a health professional, we all vary incredible in manner and knowledge. My dd2 was a healthy weight at birth - 50th centile and nose divided at 4 months. My HV was absolutley bloody fantastic, I would recommend her to anyone locally with no hesitation. I wouldn't go near a couple of the other HVs so it is not a good idea to tar everyone with the same brush.
Caz10 go with your gut but I would take the BF advise and support over your HV.
Good luck with your little one

I would question in what sense the GP is 'the most senior person involved'. That seems quite an old fashioned attitude in today's era of multidisiplinary teams etc. As a person who has been to medical school I can say that the amount of time devoted to breastfeeding knowledge is zero.

The GP ought to be good at determining whether your baby is healthy but there is no reason to say that they would be best placed to advise on feeding at all and I actually think most GPs would acknowledge that.

Caz,they are ignorant and ill informed idiots,simple as that.
Tell her to fuck off.

hi caz just wanted to say i think your doing a great job,
i totally understand how you feel about being totally demoralised all the time, i was constanly told to top up dd with formula, and my hv was exactly the same as your never once offered any other advice other than formula.

it was her mission to get dd onto formula.
even when dd was only 4 weeks old and had only just regained her birth weight, she advised me to stop feeding her on demand, and only feed her once every 2 and a half hours and just to leave here to cry for 2 and a half hours, her advice was to actually put dd upstairs put my ear plugs in and leave her for 2 and a half hours.
quite shocking really esp consdiering dd was a 4 week old newborn who wasnt really gaining weight that well at the time.
dread to thionk of the poor babies whoes mums follow her appaling advice
all the other mums at the surgery where formula feeding and im sure this is largely down to this highly dangerous individual.

i know how demoralising it feels to be told "we need to rethink bf" and "you are gonna have to give your baby formula"
"most mums have there babies on formula by now"dd was only about 3 months by the time she said this

its horrible to be made to feel as if you are harming your baby by bf, esp if you are struggling to do it as you feel its the best thing for your baby.
i honestly worried that i may be doing something detrimental to my babys develpoment

then the next thing was all babys should be weaned at 17 weeks !as its better for there develpoment! although i was much more confident to ignore her by this stage, and dd was gaining much better by then
so i told her straight i wasnt going to do it, and she said id have loads of problems with weaning if i miss the window, anyway i carried on ignoring her and bf dd till 6 months and when i started giving dd food shes not had any problems at all.
dd eats everything i give her

anyway fwiw i just stuck with the bf and dd is now 8 months still bf and is doing great, a very happy and healthy baby.

i stopped going to this hv when dd was 4 months ive had her weighed at 5 months and 6 months elsewhere and dd hasnt been weighed for 2 months but i have no worries about her at all. so when w go for her developmental check up next week will be the first time ive seen this hv in 4 months.

but my point is that i toatlly understand how you feel, and you are the expert on your baby
and you are doing a fantastic job
you can do this
the hvs ive met really do not nothing about bf
and if they don't ven bother to point you in the right direction for help such as the support lines and only tout formula.
i think that gives you a very strong impression on there lack of knowledge and support

good luck and keep strong

Can only say what I would do, which is ask to change your health visitor to another from the team - giving explicit reasons re bf knowledge and support; keep seeing gp - on your terms; go to see paed who with any luck will confirm that your child is perfectly healthy; keep using bf counsellor for support.

hi all and thanks!

duchesse that is what i am hoping for from the paed - just someone to say "dd is FINE" - i can then continue with bf, keep accessing the bf support which has been great, and hopefully stop stressing! v glad to hear your experience.

bobbysmum i take your point entirely, which is why i def want to see the paed. this is my 1st child, and i have no other experience of babies, i do not feel confident enough to come away from the "system" as other mums have.

if there is a medical issue with dd i will absolutely work with the gp etc. but if there is not, and it all comes down to bf-ing then i will stick with the bf consultant who i believe is the most qualified on this subject.

but we still have to see the HV for jags etc. she asked me yesterday if i needed bf support (a bit bloody late) and i just said no thank you, i have sourced that myself from elsewhere. i am quite happy in theory to "separate" like that, don't know how easy it will be in practice.

mamadoc "The GP ought to be good at determining whether your baby is healthy but there is no reason to say that they would be best placed to advise on feeding at all and I actually think most GPs would acknowledge that." - that is what i think too HOWEVER the GP was actually extremely (and unprofessionally imo) dismissive of the infant feeding co-ordinator! was quite gobsmacked by that.

lionbeast did you used to be a kitty?!! thank you for sharing your story and at your hv!!

i will hold back until i see the paed, but if dd continues to meet milestones, and the paed declares her healthy, i will then follow moondogs advice!!

Caz, I would complain in writing about GP's dismissive attitude to feeding co-ordinator thren.

FFSthese people can and do save the NHS a for tune in hospitalised formula fed babies.

Where did you get that figure, MFG? Would like the source for my own research.

You'd think they'd be able to give a bit more than £150k to the new bf helpline then, no?

Caz, you're doing really, really well, you know.

Lionbeast, I think I recognise your story - fantastic that you're still bf!

Bloody hell Caz, In your shoes I would be complaining in writing to the PCT about both the HV and GP's attitudes. They both sound like 50's cavemen/women.

Surely you are the person most experianced in your lo, and would know if your dd was not well, if she's happy, meeting milestones about the right time, weeing/pooing, I shouldn't worry, but would be switching GP's / doctors surgery's. I am very lucky, my HV is fab, but there is one at my surgery who I refuse to have anything to do with, because of a similar tale, but to do with weaning at 6/12.

Don't put up with their demoralising crap. If dd was hungry (I'm assuming demand feeding) she's soon say. some babies have to be smaller than average to provide an average statistic iykwim, and don't forget those charts are based on bottle fed babies. Both mine were 25th centile, b/f, and my hv would just take one look, and agree there was nothing to worry about.

Good luck, hang on in there

great links mfg, thanks for that.

i'm taking dh with me to the paed as he can be much more assertive than me!

i know that the hv and gp are doing what they think is best, they just can't seem to understand why i want to bf, which completely baffles me! they also, genuinely i think, can't see why topups are a bad idea, and when i am in for appointments i am a gibbering wreck who can't explain it properly (although why the f should i have to?!). any time i mention something i've discussed with the bfn or the feeding co-ordinator they brush it off and give me that "she's a crazy" look....

i have told the gp that the feeding co-ordinator has told us to drop the top ups. the gp says i HAVE to give them. and she obviously thinks she is right and the bf lady is wrong. meanwhile dd and i are stuck in the middle...

Caz, many doctors literally do not know that formula interferes with breastfeeding....really, they think 'why not add formula? We are not saying 'don't breastfeed!' to the crazy woman'.

They also don't know that formula has risks of its own.

You could arm yourself with an explanation of how bf works, and what top ups actually do to the whole system. They may be enlightened

Arrgh drives me mad! Ickle Pickle (DD) is now 9 months and on 25th percentile, went down to the 2nd was born on 50th. Had a nightmare with HV etc. Now she's fine but it really really affected me for a while. The good news is this happens to loads of BF babies and the seious likelihood is that you guys have nothing to worry about. Have you tried the 'little acorns' support group on Mumsnet, found that really helpful. I give IP a bottle at night so I know she's full which helps and she loves, not right for everyone though I know. Apart from that still BF at 9 months - keep at it girl!
x

thanks all!! tiktok that is what i want to do...been looking on the interney this afternoon...but i know from past experience she is not v receptive - I took in the BfN thrush leaflet when I thought we had thrush and she refused to look!!

Have found this:
from nhs scotland

and this link from kellymom

do you know of any others?

hi caz, yes i used to be kittenbaby, until i turned into a lionbeast lol

i honestly think your doing so well, thats one lucky baby of your's

im so glad your doing so well, keep getting all the suppost from here, tis the best in the world. and remenber mum knows best.
great idea to take your dh along.

yes hunker you very kindly offered to phone me once when i was really struggling. such a lovely act of kindness, ill never forget.

I just hated that you were being so undermined by that bloody woman - I'm so glad you're more confident now and that you did things your own way. I wish you'd had more support. Love the namechange - you feisty thing, you!

I am at your HV and GP!! Here I've found its the opposite- they are determined to keep you bf'ing even if you only have 1 good boob and pus pouring from the other one! I am lucky- I have been able to bf all 3 of mine, and they have all been a decent weight, but ALL the advice I ever read on bf'ing said that top-ups can often reduce the milk supply, and just to put the baby to the breast more frequently. Makes logical sense to me- a smaller baby will have a smaller tummy, therefore need more often feeding, rather than more in one go. I find it incredible in this day and age when the Government are pushing the whole Breast is best message, that medical professionals should be actually trying to undermine your efforts to bf!! Good on you for keeping going- lesser people wouldn't have! I'm glad you have found a support network, and I think you sound like you are doing really well, and your dd is happy and healthy. I'm on no 3 now, and noone has bothered to weigh him for weeks, and as for measuring his length....I'm still waiting!! I'm not being funny, but it doesn't sound like either your GP or your HV is an expert on infant nutrition! But I'm sure the paed will be, and will put your mind at rest. Good luck!!

thanks for all your kind words! redjools, i REALLY hope the paed is good, otherwise i think i will be giving up, everytime i look at how little dd is i feel terrible guilt.

in the hospital it was very pro-bf, to th e point where i felt very sorry for the girls who had chosen to ff, it seemed like the midwives were quite down on them.

i think, as tiktok says, the HV genuinely has no idea that the top ups can affect bfing. (can you see i'm trying to be diplomatic here, when i really just want to smack her one?!)

PS re a complaint - it will def be happening, on the lack of bf support, but who do i actually complain to?? (i am in scotland)