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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

After all this time, we are finally being referred to a Breastfeeding consultant.

33 replies

SparklyDYSONGothKat · 13/02/2008 19:24

Been to the hospital today with Callum to see a dietitian and Callum needed a feed while we were being seen. She asked how often he feeds and when I said she said that that it sounds like he is grazing rather than feeding, and he is only gaining weight now because he feeds so often. Anyway she is referring us to the BF consultant urgently.

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Lomond · 13/02/2008 19:33

That's good news, hope you get things sorted out at last

CantSleepWontSleep · 13/02/2008 19:35

Better late than never!

SparklyDYSONGothKat · 13/02/2008 19:43

I tried to speak to someone months ago, but was put through to difference depts. and no-one knew who or what I meant

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tiktok · 13/02/2008 21:07

Sparkly.....nothing wrong with a baby 'grazing'. This is the way the majority of babies in the world breastfeed, and it is the same as feeding, just smaller volumes, often

The fear that if the baby feeds 'too often' they can't be getting 'the hindmilk' is misplaced and based on a misunderstanding of bf.

I hope the bf consulant is helpful to you.

SparklyDYSONGothKat · 13/02/2008 22:01

thanks TT. She said that he needs to be in a rountine and shouldn't be feeding every 1-2 hours. I don't mind, he goes everywhere with me anyway, but she thinks he should be going longer now

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glimmer · 13/02/2008 22:38

I hope you will find a solution Sparkly. Sorry, am of no help.
Tiktok nice to meet you. I have been wondering about this a lot could you elaborate a little more, why both stiles of breeding (grazing and one boob at a time) work?
Whats the pro and cons of each one and why is the make-sure0they-get-hindmilk mentality coming from. Sorry for the hijack.

fingerwoman · 13/02/2008 22:41

sparkly I have a 16lb 14 week old who grazes all day. so it's definitely not a cause of slow weight gain lol
well, not in our case anyway.
hope the bfc can help though

SparklyDYSONGothKat · 13/02/2008 22:47

she even said that he didn't appear to feed well. I started feeding him in the waiting room, then had to walk down to the ward with him still latched on (they are having the outpatients refurb) with a blanket over me lol, sat down and then was called through, by then he was nearly finished.

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SparklyDYSONGothKat · 13/02/2008 22:51

I demand feed him, if he wants a feed 1 hour after the last one, then I feed him. Why should he be in a rountine?

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fingerwoman · 13/02/2008 22:58

well exactly. you can hardly refuse him food if he is crying for it can you? and if he has been slow to gain I can't imagine why anyone woild suggest spacing feeds further apart?
but then I am not a bfc, all I know is that my boys were both demand fed, both fed little and often, and were both BIG lol

NoBiggy · 13/02/2008 23:06

"Routine" to me, when applied to a baby, means some arbitrary clock-based bollocks. Makes me grrrrr.

Good luck with the consultant.

sushistar · 13/02/2008 23:14

My ds is 10 weeks, fed on demand, and 'grazes' all day. Gaining weight fine. I know individual examples are not the basis for advice, but just wanted to say that the grazing/feeding on demand does not always result in slow weight gain, so hopefully you can carry on doing what you want and feed you baby when he's peckish! Hope BF counsellor will help, good luck.

JendleWendleBells · 13/02/2008 23:34

BFing is not just about milk. It's also skin to skin, comfort, satisfying the sucking reflex, bonding ....

Both my babies loved to "nibble" as well as "feed properly". (I was less patient with DS2 but that's another story.)

I don't see anything wrong with going with the flow and being flexible if it works for you and your baby.

tiktok · 13/02/2008 23:39

glimmer - babies sometimes graze, sometimes feed more regularly, sometimes have one breast only ever, sometimes only ever have two, sometimes chop and change....as long as the mother is feeding responsively, and taking the lead from her baby, all these will work. Why? Because we are not all the same and our babies are not all the same and as a partnership (mother and baby) every one is unique...we're not all cut out according to a pattern, or engineered like robots Mothers have different storage capacities in their breasts (nothing to do with size of breasts); babies have different appetites and different rates of growing.

It makes no sense to be guided by a clock or a book on routines or what next door's baby did, or what your best friend did.

'Grazing' is how most of the pre-industrial world breastfed and still breastfeed - baby is attached to mum, and takes the breast with minimal signalling, and mum feeds without much thinking about it, a lot of the time. This usually results in many, many shortish feeds - probably 2 or 3 an hour for a lot of the day and night. These babies thrive. This is not essential to thrive - most babies can feed a lot less than this, and still do fine. But once you start imposing long gaps on a baby, you might run into trouble with supply.

People like Sparkly's dietician think that babies need to stay on the breast a long time, in order to 'reach' the hindmilk. Not true. The grazing baby gets relatively high fat milk, because of short gaps between the feeds, and because the breasts never get really, really full. The fuller the breast, the less fatty the milk; the emptier the breast, the more fatty the milk. Babies feeding like this also get large volumes - all those shortish feeds add up to a lot of milk.

Babies engineer their own intake perfectly well, usually

Hope this helps you understand. The kellymom website has some good explanations, too.

SparklyDYSONGothKat · 14/02/2008 09:33

so it doesn't matter that he grazes? As long as he gains weight, I have no problem with it.

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tiktok · 14/02/2008 09:49

Why would it matter if he grazes? What's wrong with grazing?! He won't graze forever - as he gets older he'll have breakfast, lunch and tea/supper, with snacks in between, just as most grown ups do

As the dietitican herself said, he is gaining weight because he is grazing....what's not to like? Please don't tell me she is referring you to a bf consultant because he is grazing....

SparklyDYSONGothKat · 14/02/2008 16:25

er.. yes! she said he isn't getting the hindmilk..

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Saggarmakersbottomknocker · 14/02/2008 16:31

He's a little baby with a little belly so grazing is what suits isn't it?
If he had big feeds he'd probabky chuck most of it back up.

3madboys · 14/02/2008 16:41

sparkly it sounds like you know what callum wants and he is doing fine i followed your earlier threads and you have done so well with him.

i hope the BF consultant knows their stuff and doesnt talk c*p i have never met anyone within the nhs that really knew anything to do with bfeeding

all three of my boys have 'snacked' and i forever got told i should top them up etc, or that they couldnt possibly need feeding again so soon etc, i just followed their leads, they were all snacky babies. tried and failed to impose a routine on ds1 cos i was TOLD that i should, once we gave up and went with the flow we were all much happier

i use a ring sling so that i can feed on the go etc, baby no 4 due in two weeks and i have the sling ready and am fully expecting another 'snacky' baby

SparklyDYSONGothKat · 14/02/2008 16:48

if he does feed for a long period, he does chuck it back, Normally down my top

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tiktok · 14/02/2008 18:04

Sparkly, if the bf person tells you he has to stay on longer, 'in order to reach the hindmilk', you will know she does not know her stuff. If she's a 'real' bf person, she will (I hope) not say that. You might ask her to educate her dietitian colleague in this, maybe

When mothers were told they had to take the baby off after 10 minutes, even if the baby was feeding enthusiastically, that was when there was a risk babies did not get a 'good' feed. This has been misunderstood (by some people) as meaning babies have to stay on the breast for some minimum time - quite incorrect. Short, frequent feeds, cued by the baby and timed by the baby, are just fine.....and it makes no sense at all to try to get the baby out of this if he is doing well on it.

Short, frequent feeds (call 'em 'snacks' if you want to, Ms Dietitian ) add up to an amply high volume of milk, and research shows that babies who are fed responsively get the calories/fat they need - though the volume and fat may differ quite a lot on each single occasion.

SparklyDYSONGothKat · 14/02/2008 18:24

my breasts never feel fully when he wants a feed, is that because he snacks so often? (can be anything from 1-3 hourly) He did sleep through twice, but has gone back to the 4am and 6am feeds. Today he has fed every 2 hours. I did read on Kellymom that babies that feed on an empty breast get higher calorie milk and the fat, is that correct? And could he be doing this because of his own weight problems?

The dietitian said that he should be feeding less regularly, because its tiring for me

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tiktok · 14/02/2008 18:33

Sparkly, you got it

To maximise milk supply and baby's intake, keep breasts as empty as possible

Some babies actually don't need to maximise their intake/supply, and it's quite ok for mum to have full breasts as she comes up to a feed; some babies do need to maximise their intake, maybe because their mum has a smaller storage capacity, or because they got off to less than great start, or for whatever.....and having shorter, frequent feeds will tend to keep the breasts comparatively empty and therefore with the milk comparatively high in fat, just as kellymom explains so well - and overall, the baby gets the volume of milk he needs, too.

Dietitian sounds a bit clueless, to me, sadly. Frequent feeding can feel demanding, it's true, but not really tiring...and if it is tiring at night, then there are ways to make it less so, as we often discuss here on mumsnet.

Snarf02 · 14/02/2008 20:28

my son is and daughter was both grazers feeding at least every 2 hours in the day sometimes every hour to hour and a half in the day and i have just gone with the flow. My son was a very quick feeder from day 1 whereas it took my daugther til about 3 months to get quicker at feeding. He feeds in usually under 10 mins but very frequently. They have both gained weight really well and been good sleepers so i get a good break at night from the constant grazing at day time. I dont mind the grazing as just feed wherever i am. Thats really interesting about empty breasts and higher calorie milk/fat i did not know that

Place · 15/02/2008 14:20

Grazing is only really a problem if you think it is!! You got the message emptier breast= low volume high fat milk. If on the other hand you wanted to string some feeds out a little that's your choice.+

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