Breastfeeding Struggles

[BirbCat]

Hi mumsnet, looking for some gentle advice, or maybe just a handhold, I guess.

Had my first baby 6 days ago, and feeding him is absolutely kicking my butt emotionally/mentally.

Breastfeeding has hurt from the beginning, even with the help of the lovely midwives. Baby latches and then fusses/comes off, cries in frustration or falls asleep, and even when it's a good latch, it still hurts me SO much when he suckles. The other night I ended up sobbing after feeding him on/off for two hours and it hurting the whole time.

A midwife finally noticed he might be tongue tied and has referred us on, which would explain everything.

I'm just really struggling to keep going in the meantime. A few times we have given him formula just so he can feed and we can all sleep, and to give me a break from the pain. I'm now trying to hand express and have a pump on the way, so I can feed him breastmilk somehow. But I worry constantly about nipple/bottle confusion etc - he already struggles more with my nipples after having some bottles.

If he is tongue tied and it gets snipped and his latch improves, do you think it's possible to reintroduce more breastfeeds? Even if I can't, he'll still benefit from expressed milk more than formula? I feel like I'm ruining all my breastfeeding chances by introducing bottles so early, but it's so hard and painful without them.

Sorry for rambling, would love some gentle thoughts, or any experiences with tongue tie and breastfeeding!

I had very similar with my little boy when he was born, not only was it incredibly painful but it took forever as the poor little gury couldn't hold the latch (would take 40m to do a 10m feed where he kept coming on and off). Once he had his tongue tie cut, within a week it was night and day compared to before! We also were giving him bottles of expressed milk and formula to give me a break and had no issues going back to exclusively breastfed initially (he's now on a bottle every evening but again, no issues). But honestly, it's like he was a completely different baby after the tongie tie was cut so honestly OP, you're doing an amazing job still persevering and it does get better. (If it helps, my boy was 3 months by the time his tongue tie was spotted so you're already way ahead of where I was!)

Congrats on your little one 🥰
You shouldn't be so hard on yourself! My first baby isnt here yet (5 weeks left and counting), but I plan to breastfeed too. I've had to be very honest and realistic with myself regarding my expectations. At first I used to think "well my baby will be a natural and it will all be a breeze with rainbows and sunshines". But after some research that is clearly just not the case. Its going to be hard and painful and I'm going to be exhausted! But we have to accept that we are trying our best and if baby cant latch, or its causing you this much pain, dont beat yourself up over giving them a bottle! I already have breastpump put aside for these exact reasons. If I have to give baby expressed milk in a bottle then I will, that doesn't mean I have failed! Even if I have to give formula!

I am unsure on the tongue tied solution.. Hopefully it will help and you and baby can start a lovely new breastfeeding journey together, I can't see why not. But again, if not, its not your fault and giving them a bottle isnt the worst thing.

I understand, I want to breastfeed more than anything, but if its not benefiting me or baby, and its actually making things worse/harder, then I would stop. I wouldn't want to look back at the first few weeks of their life and hate every memory because I was in agony :(
Hopefully some other mums have more insight into the tongue tie! Good luck

And breathe….I promise you that you aren’t messing anything up and I found having a baby who can take a bottle and breastfeed super useful. Sometime if you don’t introduce a bottle then they refuse bottles.

Hopefully once you have the TT sorted then it should be a much easier feeding journey!

There is nothing wrong with feeding them formula but i too felt horrible guilt over this and put so much pressure on myself. Technically breastmilk is better but don’t put too much pressure on it.

If you don’t have it already get some lansoil (purple tube) nipple cream it’s about £10 a tube but worth it! Let your boobs out to air dry occasionally it does help with the healing (or so I heard)

You are doing a great job, the fact you worry so means you are great mum!

Have you tried nipple shields? They help baby latch and also provide a shield so that sore or cracked nipples can recover.
breastfeeding is hard, but you're doing amazing!!

I had a difficult breastfeeding journey too and I relate to everything you are saying! I was so upset that he wouldn't latch, it felt like rejection. The pain was so bad at times I cried and had to bite down on a Muslin to stop from startling him. I had fab support from a lactation consultant via our trust so I would ask for a referral if you can. Also La Leche League might do meetings where you are. You are doing so well, it's really hard and emotional I get it totally.

My DS didn't latch and feed properly til he was 4 weeks old. He was checked for a tongue tie but didn't have one. I actually think I overdid the Lanisoh cream (you only need a grain of rice size bit) as he latched perfectly after a shower but would scream and turn his head away in the daytime after I slathered on the cream.

Things that worked for me:

Flipple technique to get him latched eventually.

Nipple shields to help with the pain and help him latch (they do come in sizes so measure the nipple first. Medela and MAM ones were good). I sent my other half to asda for tommee tippee ones in desperation as I was in hospital on day 5 trying to feed him... it was like a little hat for my nipple, no where near the right size whoops!

And lastly time. I expressed and bottle fed him with paced feeding for 4 weeks, he still took to breastfeeding no problem after that and actually won't take a bottle now.

Please don't worry about how you feed him. Mum guilt started for me so intensely during the early days as I wasn't prepared for breastfeeding to be such a struggle, but it's natural like walking not natural like breathing and a learning curve. Formula feeding is absolutely fine, breast is fine whatever you do is fine. You are doing so well and this too shall pass. Sending a handhold xx

Oh gosh, I wrote this and put my phone down thinking I might not get any replies, and now I'm tearing up from all these lovely responses!

Thank you all for sharing - it is SO good to hear other people have had the same or similar struggles. I knew that logically, but hearing it firsthand is different. I so needed this encouragement <3

Thank you for all the suggestions - I've got the lansinoh cream luckily, and will def have to look into nipple shields, they sound super helpful.

Feeling much more buoyed than this morning thanks to you all - just hoping the tongue tie referral comes in quickly now!

Your midwife should be able to give you a special feeding cup. I've had to use them with both of mine due to tongue tie. As soon as you have had this snipped the pain will go and you and baby can relearn those good latch positions you've been working on. So you're doing great so far!

Bottles interfere with feeding because they rely on sucking whereas the cup needs a lapping motion just like breastfeeding. So the best way to go if your goal is to protect your bf journey is to feed expressed milk from the cup for now but continue offering baby boob and loads of skin to skin every day, taking painkillers regularly so you are not scared to feed. I've gone privately for tongue tie both times because I couldn't wait and was fortunate to afford it. I recommend that if it's an option. You need an IBCLC. I pumped and cup fed every two hours for eight weeks during Covid before tongue tie appointment. I know how hard it is but it is so worth it. Keep going!

This is really good too. Best of luck mumma.

Thanks so much for mentioning the feeding cup, I hadn't heard of that before! I will see if I can ask the midwives about it, and in the meantime express and do skin to skin etc.

I hadn't realised tongue tie was something I might benefit from going private for - I guess I'll see what the time estimate is when I hear back from the hospital clinic, and look at options then.

I hope you can get the tongue tie issue sorted quickly.
At this stage, giving formula can really mess with your supply and make it hard to get back to exclusive breastfeeding.
Soreness is normal for a couple of weeks, even if you're latching on properly, but it can be really upsetting and can interfere with your let down if you aren't relaxed.
Hopefully you're getting enough support so you can rest a bit and focus on the baby, without distractions. You need someone to look after you for a bit while you recover and get feeding established.
Don't let people put you off breastfeeding. You might need a bit of extra determination at first, but it will get easier. All the best x

Just wanted to say, I know not all babies are the same but I introduced bottles early with both of mine, otherwise I couldn’t have continued breastfeeding. It killed!!! I needed to know that I’m able to give my nipples a break rather than feel trapped.
I’m currently still a bit sore almost 13 weeks in, but I think my nipples are just extra sensitive.
We’re being checked for a tongue tie soon!
Hope your issues resolve soon!

Redebs, yeah that's why I've been so anxious and upset about it all, I didn't want to mess with my supply. I was prepared for it to hurt/be a learning curve, but this amount of pain, and more importantly seeing my baby struggle to feed, has been so much worse than I expected.

Luckily my partner is the most incredible and supportive man, and has been waiting on me hand and foot doing everything he can to reassure and help me.

Mzlk so good to hear another example of someone else with similar issues, it really does hurt so much doesn't it? Good luck with yours too!

@BirbCat I really feel for you, tongue tied baby who made an absolute mess of my poor nipples in the first couple of days so feeding was agony. He couldn't latch properly either and to top it off was jaundiced so very sleepy and uninterested in feeding (we were on a feeding plan for the jaundice which meant bottle top ups but he struggled with that too...). We ended up readmitted to hospital with the jaundice on day 3, where a lovely midwife noticed the tongue tie and did a referral for us. Ended up getting it snipped on the NHS at 2.5 weeks. The thing that absolutely saved me in this two weeks were nipple shields. Helped him to latch and gave my nipples a chance to heal. Multi Mam compresses and the silver cups you put in your bra helped heal the open cracks quickly too (wincing as I remember them!)

After he had the tongue tie done, he got the hang on feeding without the shields within a week, we got signed off to drop the top ups (partner still gives him a bottle of expressed milk in the evening so i get a sleep) and since then, feeding has slowly got better and better to the point that at 9 weeks I feel like a different person, and not the crying hormonal wreck I was for the first few weeks feeling like a failure as I struggled so much with the pain. Going to local support groups for help with the latch and positioning helped A LOT but also just for moral support. Knowing that it would get easier at some point helped me get through the hard times feed by feed (and still does on bad days).

basically, hang in there! You're doing brilliantly and it will pass

Hi there OP, congrats on your little one! When my DD was born the first week was so hard with the feeding. I don't have experience with tongue tie unfortunately but I really struggled with feeding. I was told different methods and positions for breastfeeding by midwives and my nipples were in agony as she had a poor latch, but somehow it looked like she had a good one. We gave her a bit of formula as I was so exhausted.

I was about to give up then my SIL taught me a cross cradle method which really worked and DD managed to latch on much better. She is now 3 months and exclusively breastfed! We've even tried to give her bottles now and she doesn't know how to drink from them lol! So don't worry about the nipple confusion, if you need to give a bit of formula or expressed milk that's perfectly fine! You can also get little syringes to drip feed the milk into baby's mouth. A fed baby is best no matter which type of milk.

Another tip for sore nipples is to get some nipple cream and allow them to dry between feeds. I hope this info helps, you're doing an amazing job & try not to worry too much💕

Update: Managed to get an appointment at the tongue tie clinic tomorrow, thanks to a cancellation!! Crossing all my fingers that the tt is the problem and they can help

@stollen123 (Just realised I can mention people, sorry all lovely previous repliers I didn't reply to directly!) Sorry to hear you had such troubles, but it's so encouraging to hear things have improved! I definitely will get some nipple shields, and have literally raced to buy those multi mam compresses because my nipples are falling apart today! I'm quite shy, but will def think about support groups, because this can be a lonely journey. Thank you!!

@cad98 Thank you so much, it's so weirdly good to hear other people have had struggles too, it makes me feel so much more normal! So glad you found a good method and have been going for so long now! I have def started reminding myself that fed is best, and that I'm doing well by my baby to keep him happy and full however I can.

Hi!

oh well done you! It’s sooo hard and I have to say especially in the U.K. it seems like nobody breastfeeds. you feel on your own . It’s a bit of an art really and it’s gone lost so don’t despair, it’s absolutely not easy .
I breastfed my DD for a year and I also donated few litres of milk that I pumped so I feel like I gain some knowledge

the first few weeks are the hardest , like everything new , you need some time to get the hang of it . Don’t feel like you are doing it wrong.

my nipples hurt from minute 1 . I bought nipple shields ( the medela one , there a few sizes ) and used them from day 2 as I was already bleeding from my nipple .

my nipples ( without shields ) used to come out lipstick shaped which she probably didn’t have a good latch but with the shields it was not painful at least . I’m it sure if she had a tongue tie ..I just used the shields which I believe now made feeding slower, but at least it was possible.

as she grew in size she just got better and faster but god I was with my boobs out all day …hours and hours . Watched tons of Netflix ( which was amazing anyway as when they start moving around you can’t anymore) and learnt to eat one handed too 🤣🤣

I got a lady out from a breastfeeding support group who really reassured me and told some women use shields all the way some wean them off .
I stopped when she was 3-4 months I think .

pumps: yes I did pump a lot ! I had a manual pump , silent , cheap , fit in a handbag and I always pumped so she could have a bottle a day while I was not available for whatever reason and dad could help her .
I found the manual one really good as you could pump in 2 modes: fast from the little end to get the letdown going ( you might notice they start sucking quick and than they sort of slow down ) and then from the bigger end you’d just pump with whatever rhythm you feel comfortable .

my daughter never got confused , she is 3 and an amazing eater so maybe she just wanted food no matter how it came 🤣
your baby might be different , you know best .

anyway if you have specific questions just ask me , it’s really hard but I feel it was worth it ( obviously)

I can tell you that she is 3 and a half and so far she has never had antibiotic. She had 1 episode of having a sore ear for 2 days and 1 bout of diarrhoea last month.

lots of colds/ fever like all children do but nothing major .

maybe it’s just random and you know some people are more sickly than others but it was probably the hardest thing I did, breastfeed her , so I like to think it had an impact at least .

but it’s hard. The first couple of months especially .

if there is a tongue tie that can be fixed so don’t worry about that too much . It’s good that they referred you .

The local breastfeeding support groups now tend to come with what's app support too. Perfect for middle of the night I need help woes. NCT breastfeeding volunteers here do home visits if you are too uncomfortable with a group.

Get the silver cups!!!! All my pain disappeared within 24 hours just like the lady in the shop promised it would. I fed into toddler hood then and didn't need anything else, just the silver cups..
Also, when latching make sure baby's gave is touching at four points - their nose, both cheeks and chin need to be touching your breast.
Lots of luck - you can do it :-)

Also, whilst waiting for the cups to arrive I used the multi Mam compresses, cut them in half and they last longer!

DD had tongue tie and it's great to hear that the snip was the solution for others but it doesn't always work.
I was breastfeeding and topping up with bottles until she was snipped at 5 weeks. Her latch and feeding improved a little bit but it still wasn't amazing. I almost got her exclusive breastfeeding but she was so used to bottles at that stage that no matter how hard i tried, she wouldn't give them up completely. She would scream until she had her topup. There was no issues with supply as I had loads of milk, it was just that either my letdown was too slow or it was just less effort for her with the bottle. I absolutely tried everything and it broke me that I couldn't exclusively breastfeed.
I managed to keep going with combi feeding until 18 weeks when she refused the breast altogether.

The snip seems to work wonders for most babies but just have it in the back of your mind that it's not a miracle cure for all babies, some still struggle. Don't be like me and set all your hopes on it only to end up with massive disappointment and heartache.

@BirbCat how are you getting on now?

Just on the supply front I wanted to offer some reassurance. I had a bumpy start to my breastfeeding journey as I was really unwell after birth. By day 2 we were combi feeding and in the early days I’d guesstimate DD was easily 50/60% formula fed despite me desperately trying to persevere with breastfeeding. She’s now 9wks old and almost entirely breastfed, occasionally she’ll have a small bottle of formula if we’re in a growth spurt and I don’t have expressed milk to hand/my nipples need a break, but most days she’ll wholly breastfed. My proudest moment was discovering weight-wise she’d gone from the 24th percentile to the 50th following me converting back to mostly breastfeeding. I found the book Mixed Up by Lucy Ruddle really helpful in navigating our transition back to boob from combi-feeding.

On the sore nipple front I swear by these for helping to soothe and heal amzn.eu/d/9jcFXPJ

I know it’s easier said than done but please be gentle with yourself, you’re doing an amazing job!

Hi @PointyMcguire and everyone else who has responded since my last message, and thank you all so much for the kind words and wisdom!

I got the multimam compresses after seeing so many suggestions, and they're really good! My nipples have healed a lot from being scabbed/cracked like they were, thank god!

So we went to the tongue tie appt and she confirmed he had a very tight tie, so she did the snip - very efficient. Since then I've been trying to breastfeed and express as much as possible to get my supply back up, and topping up with formula as needed.

I'll be honest, I am grateful to @fairgame84@fairgame84's warning, because the tt snip wasn't the end solution I'd hoped. I'm super glad baby is more comfortable now (he can stick his little tongue out!) but feeding is still incredibly hard. Getting him to latch well is v difficult, even with different positioning and tips like the flipple etc.
It still really hurts me when he feeds too, a sharp and deep pain when he suckles. Expressing can also hurt if I use the pump's higher settings, so maybe I'm just sensitive.

With all the difficulties, feeds can sometimes take hours, and sometimes he still hasn't had enough to fill him up :( when I'm then trying to express afterwards as well, the whole day can pass without me doing anything to enjoy my baby other than be in discomfort with him. My tailbone hurts from sitting down so much!

I have another complication in that I'm going back to work fairly early, around April, at which point my partner will be main carer. Our original plan was to EBF until I returned to work, then try to BF and express for bottles for partner to give during the day, but honestly I can't see that happening now.

Our current plan is combi feeding right now, to give baby what goodness from breastmilk I can. Probably it'll end up like mostly formula and then topups with a nighttime breastfeed and occasional expressed bottle. I feel fairly happy with this as a plan - I wanted to breastfeed so much, but honestly I also think I need to enjoy this precious time with my baby, and the struggles are really wearing on all three of us. It's hard to let go of the anxiety and guilt, but I'm telling myself that any amount of breastmilk he has from me is good, and we can bond in so many other wonderful ways. I just need to learn how to judge how much formula to feed now - he seems to eat so much in one sitting!

Thanks again for everyone's kindness, and sorry for this absolute essay - this has been very cathartic for me, and maybe it'll help someone else if anyone else is like me.

What a shame to give up now, when it's just about to get easier.
EBF has so many health benefits and the longer you can avoid giving formula, the better your supply will be when you pump for work.

Your decision though. Wishing you the very best

I'm glad the tongue tie has been sorted.

Have you got a local breastfeeding support group? I'd head down there if you do and get some face to face support. They can help with positions, encouragement, information and combi feeding.

Have you seen natural breastfeeding positions, sometimes called laid back feeding. That might help the latch and your comfort levels.

I'm sorry it didn't go as planned. There's still time as it can take up to 2 weeks for them to relearn how to use their tongue. Keep re-latching if it hurts, although I got to the point where I was re-latching so much that DD was getting angry so sometimes I just ducked it up.

It's so cute seeing them stick it out though, i loved seeing DD do that!

Definitely enjoy your baby, it goes so fast.