Pointless bloody cluster feeding, am soooo unhappy (long)

[Sufi]

DS1 is 13 wks. He's cluster fed in the evening from the start and that was OK as I thought that a) he'd grow out of it and b) it meant he would sleep during the night. And he did, to begin with, sleeping 11pm-4am and sometimes 11pm-5am from about 6 wks. Except now he's STILL cluster feeding and not sleeping - things seem to be getting worse, not better. Tonight he fed at 5pm, 6pm, 7pm, 8pm and then 9.30pm (the latter for over an hour), and he's just woken me up at 1.20pm for a feed.

It can't be a growth spurt as this has been going on for 2 wks and I did get two nights of 11pm-4am before he went back to this stupid 2-3 hourly feeding.

He feeds every 1.5-3 hours during the day, so it's not like he's not getting enough milk. He also barely sleeps during the day - and I have tried everything to get him to sleep as I realise this can prevent good sleeping at night. There is never any time for me to sleep, during the day, getting an early night etc.

Its really getting me down. I can't function without sleep. DH is being utterly crap and unsupportive and I'm basically getting no break from the baby at all because of this stupid, pointless evening cluster feeding. I can't hand over the baby at the end of the day to DH because he's constantly on my boobs. It's been 13 bloody weeks and I've had enough. It's not like I have unrealistic expectations as I don't expect him to sleep 12 hours a night.

Feel like a sodding milking machine with no light at the end of the tunnel. Feel like breaking out the hungry baby formula and handing him to DH while I book a hotel for the night.

Sorry for the rant but I'm at my wits end. I really don't know what to do. I knew it would be hard but stupidly thought things would slowly improve. All my friends ff and don't have anywhere near these problems and at least they can hand baby over if they need a break.

Am I doing something wrong?

got to do the school run so no time to post but bumping this for you.

IME cluster feeds reached it peek around 16-20 weeks and then stopped. I think its very normal. I think your DH is main problem. He needs to help you!

Awww Sufi. You are not doing anything wrong! You are doing brilliantly, and this time will pass eventually (I know that is not what you want to hear though). I found it was easier to sleep with DD when she was feeding all night so I could get some sleep, can you do that? If you gave your DH formula and went to a hotel you would be up with painful boobs all night so wouldn't get any more sleep doing that unfortunately. You will however, be so proud of yourself if you carry on breastfeeding.

Can you pop DS in a sling and go for a walk during the day? This was always guaranteed to make DD have a long afternoon sleep.

I'm sorry I can't be more help to you, i feel for you I really do.

Poor you. I remember this well. Am trying to think what happened to make it stop, but to be honest, I think things just gradually improved. I do remember thinking "bloody hell" when we reached and passed the 14/16 weeks marker where everyone else (i.e. SILs children) had started sleeping from 7 - 7, and dd was still waking maybe twice in the night and going down very late.
Actually, I think what really helped was dh basically taking over all things baby related (barring feeding) at weekends so I could just collapse and bank some sleep.

Sorry to not see this until today... I put my breastfed son on a schedule (sshh! don't tell anyone) and stretched the time between feeds during the day by 10 minutes a day until he was happily eating every 4 hours for a very long 45 minute feed. He never did well with cluster feeding as he just wasn't hungry enough to eat enough to fill himself up for any length of time. Every baby is different - so maybe try some different feeding patterns and see what works for you, it may not be the normal feed-on-demand schedule everyone recommends. (And I breastfed for 17 months - ended up loving it after a really rough start).

oh wait - today's wednesday - I am seeing this right away. Cr*p, I thought it was Thursday already...

Oh that's a good idea - how about if you go to bed and just read/listen to ipod/chill with dd from 7pm, and doze in between the cluster feeds, feed lying down? Would that get you a bit more rest?
WRT sleep during the day, dd was very hit or miss until she was about 4 months. I did make an attempt to impose a routine, but she wasn't having it (unlike ds, my second, who slotted very neatly into life). And then gradually a pattern emerged of a morning nap at about 9am ish followed by a later afternoon nap of 1pm -3.30pm. I do recall reading the baby whisperer and actually finding it pretty useful - just the EASY routine of Eat, Active (i.e. awake), sleep (and you-time when your baby is asleep). There are no timings, but what was useful to me was the idea that I should try and get dd, in the morning and the early afternoon, to feed and then have a bit of active time while watching for her sleep cues so I wouldn't miss the boat and end up with overtired daughter. IN the evening though all bets were off and she fed and fed and fed. And then as soon as she was asleep, I would go to sleep. I was rather resentful of losing my evenings of mooching and pottering, but weighed up against the benefit of a 3 or 4 hour sleep...

Hi Sufi, sorry you are so knackered and having a hard time. My DD3 was exactly like this - she cluster fed ALL evening from birth until about 15-16 weeks, feeding constantly from about 4pm until sometimes 11pm or midnight. In the end I just gave into it and planned which DVD to watch, got comfy on the sofa surrounded by drinks and snacks and let her feed as trying to put her down before she was finished resulted in a very cross baby!

She started finishing feeding gradually a bit earlier at around 15 weeks I think 10pm, then 9.30pm,then 9pm and I started feeding her in the bedroom in a quieter atmosphere. Like your DS1 she then started waking more in the night and I sympathise with how frustrating and exhausting this is. Just recently at almost 5 months she has started settling (fairly) reliably at 7pm, then I feed her whatever time I go to bed and she goes 5-6 hours before waking for a snack. Though it may feel like it, the cluster feeding isn't pointless, just your lovely baby finding his way of getting what he needs.

I used to feel jealous of my DH stretched out on the sofa, his day finished, while I was still milking away. Could he take your DS out for a long walk during the day on days when he is around to give you chance for a snooze or just a break? Its crap to hear that it will pass when you are right in the middle of it and at your wits end, but it really will settle down.

If you want to give occasional formula then do, though not a guarantee of longer sleeping, but like you said might give you chance to hand him over. As a very sensible midwife said to me "Do whatever YOU need to do to get through it" whether that be dummies, co-sleeping whatever.

You are doing nothing wrong, just everything right to give your beautiful boy a great start. Take care.

thanks everyone for this. Had an awful night, which ended up with me sitting on the edge of the bed sobbing at 6am - DH finally realised that I've had enough and has said he will help out and do whatever he can tonight (the last straw was last night when he told me it was my 'job' to bath the baby as he worked all day. I did point out that I look after DS 24 hours a day so I purposely woke DH up with each feed last night so he could get a bit of an insight into how it is for me!)

I suppose I'm feeling so bad as I've not imposed a routine on DS, trying to let him find his own. He's dead happy because of it and we had fallen into a pattern of him sleeping 11pm-4/5am, which is enough sleep for me to cope with. He sleeps in bed with me but, to be honest, it's not that restful as he sleeps with his arms stretched out so I end up perched on the edge of the bed with terrible hip and shoulder ache cos I can't move!! I had been putting him in his moses basket at 11pm and then having him in bed with me from 4am as a compromise.

But thanks for your encouragement. I love breastfeeding but I'm just so, so tired. I'll pack away the formula for another night. Wish me luck....!

Dear Sufi

I know how despairing and knackered you must be feeling - you're being such a lovely mum, clearly, as your baby just can't get enough of you

Just wondering whether your baby has ever had expressed milk from a bottle? I'm no expert beyond having my own 14-week dd...but by 13 weeks your supply should be well-established. Could you perhaps express during the morning and let dh feed ds in the evening? ime this helped break up the cluster feeds at that time.

Alternatively (whisper this) you/your DH could try giving one bottle of formula in the evenings. Perhaps would make your DH feel more part of things (mine was feeling a bit left out and disgruntled)? In my case, it seemed that the quality of my milk wasn't great by that time of the day and wasn't satisfying dd. She wanted to feed and feed and feed. She was Araldited to my boobs but still not satisfied.

When the health visitor suggested formula I wept in front of all the mums at baby clinic and felt a complete failure. But I tried it, despite sobbing over the Sma, and it worked...then about three weeks later, when I felt more sturdy about everything, I concentrated on expressing earlier in the day and gave her that milk in a bottle in the evening. So now she's exclusively bf again. And sleeping. And we're all happy.

HTH

xx

Oh, and Move The Baby's Arms when you're in bed. Or lay one arm across you perhaps? You can't wake up aching. You have to look after yourself as well as your baby!!

Message withdrawn

I'd second expressing a big feed before you try formula - my DS (5 wks) always goes longer after a bottle of ebm than on the boob as he finds it much easier to get a large amount, and it ensures he gets a good mix of hind and foremilk. Having said that, I'm speaking from the position of someone who gets more out in 10 minutes of pumping than her DS does in an hour of feeding!

Oh it's hard isn't it?? And no, you're not doing anything wrong - not sure there are rights and wrongs with babies!

Just wanted to second the 'do whatever it takes....' thing really.

I think most of us start off with a picture of what it is we want to do, and then have to alter it somewhat in order to get through. For me it was introducing a dummy (very early on!) when it rapidly became evident that for dd it was comfort sucking she was after half the time. Dh says he's never seen such a quick turn around on an adamant decision, (but didn't argue, not being the one being sucked to death). And we only needed it for a short while to get us through a patch.

Mind you, like the AberdeenHiker I'd probably get frowned upon around here for bfing to a schedule too.... It worked for us though. Happy baby, happy me. Still at it at a year. But that doesn't mean it's the right thing, just the thing that worked for us.

As for the nap thing, it's hard, really hard, but I think you will find that your baby 'grows into it'. I was assured mine would, and she did, eventually.

Keep going - you're doing a great job!

You poor thing! Just wanted to agree with everything Tallis said. We did the sme thing, one ff before bed and although she didn't sleep any longer I did get a break and DH felt sooo much more bonded with her so it was good all round. When she dropped that feed at about 5 months I was back to exclusively BF but still give an ocasional bottle for ease and if I'm going out (rare!) I felt like I'd failed by not exclusively BF for the first 6 months as I'd planned but I think if I'd carried on the way we were I'd have been so knackered that I couldn't have functioned. My mantra is now 'whatever works' Keep saying it...

ah thanks everyone. DH has finally taken the hint. I managed to express a bottle this morning and now DH has taken DS out to his mum's with the milk for an hour. I'm sat slobbed in front of the TV eating crisps and chocolate and though I'm knackered I do feel better just for having a bit of space. And I had a long chat with my mum this evening and she said she envied how much I'd been enjoying being with my baby, not worrying about routines and not trying to force him to go to sleep (Mum was told to feed, wind, change and then leave me to scream my head off until I fell asleep - she said that's just what you did with babies back in the 70s. Suddenly I realise why I've always had crap levels of self-confidence/self-esteem...!!!).

That said, did think more about the EASY thing, not a routine but being aware that DS might be inclined to nap. I managed to get him to have three short naps (45mins) during the day - watched for sleep cues and then 'bounced' him on my shoulder while patting and shushing and, lo and behold, he dropped off after 10 mins or so.

so thank you all, MN to the rescue again!!

well done! we are still cluster feeding away here, probably about an hour to go...

can i be nosey and ask when/how you express and how much you get? I would love to give dd a bottle of EBM at night, but never seem to get enough out and sometimes have to resort to formula then i feel terrible

you have given me hope though tallis!

Oh well done Sufi. I think what helped me was realising that a routine doesn't have to be GF, can simply be becoming aware of a baby's sleep/feed cycle and making sure that that can be accommodated to mutual benefit i.e. picking up on sleep cues and developing on what the baby already does.
I think at this age I also tried what others did, to extend slightly the length of time between feeds without pushing it too much. DD was just coming out of her colicky stage by now and things did start to gradually improve.

I found expressing most productive when I expressed while doing the morning feed. So would have pump on one side and dd on the other, and then swap. I never managed to get the let down with just pumping without dd stimulating the other side.
She never took milk to any great extent from a bottle though so I abandoned the experiment though freezed loads for use when I started weaning on to solids (which was 4 months for her, 6 months for ds).

I've not expressed that many times, but seems to be more milk in the mornings, tho it seems to range from 50ml to 100ml! guess it depends on how much DS feeds during the night... and he will only take the bttle from DH, not from me! Which is GREAT as DH then has no choice but to do it!

well quite right too! What would be the point of you using the expressed milk
If you do manage to have a longer period between feeds in the night, you may find then that you can express more in the morning. Or you could jsut have a few days of building up a bank of milk in the freezer/fridge.