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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Had a horrible, horrible day - need some tiktok and hunkerisms please. (Huuuuge post)

116 replies

verylittlecarrot · 31/01/2008 17:56

I've had a wretched day following receipt of a letter from the paediatrician. Distilled down, it basically reduces dd down to two things; "failing to thrive" and "inadequate calorie intake". It also claims she has some delay in her motor development - ascribed to the failure to thrive - which he hopes would "pick up once her nutrition improves". I am surprised to hear this and don't agree with it.

Other possible causes have been ruled out (thyroid, heart, absorption problems)

The formerly supportive bfc who referred me (at my request) apparently felt a little miffed that I had not followed one particular piece of her advice, namely to express several times a day in addition to feeding on demand. (I attempted this for a while but abandoned it for several reasons, both practical and theoretical, in favour of just putting the baby to the breast at very frequent intervals.) This rejection of her advice has been noted in the letter. I rang the bfc to find out what this was about and challenged her, as she has previously told me I have "gallons of milk" and that supply isn't a problem. She seems less certain about my supply now, apparently.

The letter has a lot more to it and doesn't present me in a great light either. The paed wants to refer us on to a dietician.

There's so much I want to dispute in the letter - the diagnosis, the apparent motor delays, the conclusion that it is my bf to blame, the advice to wean her earlier rather than later (on baby rice!), the assumptions that I take random advice off the internet and lack the necessary intelligence and discretion to research properly info salient to dd's specific circumstances.

But actually, I've had enough. Spent the whole day in tears. I think I've run out of fight.

It's almost worse having gained the knowledge I have, from MN, because in RL you just sound like a non-compliant nutter with odd ideas and bizarre principles. And there isn't a tiktok or hunker in my neck of the woods to back me up, sadly.

So here are my questions

If I were to introduce a high cal formula at this stage, after 6 months of excl bf, perhaps a bottle a day, what effect might it have on my supply? (I already know what it will do to my psyche) Assuming that the hcps are correct, and for some reason I have an inadequate or fragile supply.

Is this likely to damage my long term plans to continue bf until she self weans?

Are there any risks to dd in doing this, vs carrying on bf (and weaning obv)

Is there a formal, diagnostic procedure to confirm that I have low supply? No-one has examined me ever in all of this, it's just a conclusion that has been reached through elimination of other causes.

Taking into account a steady and consistent weight GAIN from day 2 of her wee life, starting at 3 oz a week and now slowing to about 1 oz a week, does this sort of growth pattern seem consistent with low supply? She gained better in the beginning than she does now - might my supply be worse than it was?

If so, is it too late to fix things now?

I still feed every two hours roughly, sometimes more, both sides, and take domperidone (although I stopped for a few days last week as I honestly didn't feel it was making any difference, but have started again in desperation)

Does it make any difference that I still get engorged if she goes 4 hours between feeds at night occasionally? Does this mean anything?

I'm grasping at straws, anything to avoid admitting that my body has provided "inadequate calorie intake", which has caused motor development delays. The very real fear that I might have harmed my baby has been writen down in black and white today. It is sickening to read it.

I'm rambling and incoherent because I'm so upset. But I'm losing my nerve against the pressure. I need to consider formula, if it will help dd catch up some of the weight she needs so badly. I can't forgive myself for causing her problems. I feel like a defective failure. I tried to do everything I was supposed to do and it just hasn't worked.

OP posts:
verylittlecarrot · 06/02/2008 20:45

Ha! weigh the poo.
(don't think I hadn't thought of that, cos I had)

Poor little moppet, she was not happy at all whilst pooing today. I think "real poo" is rather a shock to her system.

Will be picking up some apricots tomorrow. Anyone tried dates for constipation? We have dates in the house.

OP posts:
AngeG · 06/02/2008 20:51

Great news about weight gain. Well done babycarrot

(Hope the constipation gets sorted!)

LardyMardyDaisy · 06/02/2008 20:55

yay for the littlest carrot

LardyMardyDaisy · 06/02/2008 20:55

ps she is gorgeous

halogen · 07/02/2008 20:24

Prune/apricot puree is really good for constipation and totally sticky and delicious - you just soak and cook some dried prunes and apricots and puree them. Nice on bread like jam for babies who don't like spoons. Really pleased for tinycarrot and her weight gain.

verylittlecarrot · 07/02/2008 20:28

thanks lucicle

have bought prunes and apricots not two hours ago!

However the eagle has landed (several times, and noisily at that), but if this is the state of things to come prunes may become part of the staple diet.

OP posts:
CL4DB · 07/02/2008 22:09

Hi VLC I just wanted to add my support and excitement about the weight gain! I read lots of your threads last year when my lo who is rather tiny too was worrying me. your posts provided lots of support and I felt much better knowing that there were other tiny babies out there.
Your treatment by the medical know it alls is really rough and am so pleased you are moving on and just enjoying being mum to your gorgeous girl

Good luck

X

verylittlecarrot · 07/02/2008 23:09

CL4DB - your post made me smile, thank you. It is comforting to read about the tiny babies out there, and to know you aren't the only one.

I do tend to bare my soul a bit from time to time, particularly if I've had a crappy day and am doubting myself, and I worry about "letting the side down" with my negativity, which is complete bobbins, really. If I vent like this in real life, people look at me like I'm a loon, as they have no idea about how passionately one can feel about breastfeeding.

But the wonderful mnetters keep picking me back up. I'm not done trying yet. Even at 6 months in, with weaning started, I think I'm still going to see if I can find a RL expert to take a look at us feeding to see if a fresh set of eyes can spot something that could be improved.

I hope your little one is progressing well, and you aren't worrying.

OP posts:
mybabywakesupsinging · 08/02/2008 01:17

VLC perhaps baby carrot will turn out like my little brother, who was tiny on milk (weight gains of 1oz a week) but starting food made a big difference for him. There was never any obvious/medical reason for his tiny size (he was bf too, as were me and little sis); he just didn't grow much till he started solids. Maybe baby carrot won't be a tiny baby for much longer...maybe she was born to eat...how lovely to hear she is enjoying food so much. Hope you enjoy weaning her and continuing to bf her.

CL4DB · 08/02/2008 20:11

Am having a bit of a tough time. having weaned off the breast at 6 months - although dd always had a bottle which dp gave at 10.30pm - she is now 7 months and point blank refusing the bottle. she has taken no bottles consciously since Monday am. this evening was the first milk of the day and i got in 2oz when she was asleep after persuading it into her along with her thumb...
have got another thread going but if anyone has any good ideas, much appreciated, although am beginning to think have tried everything...

verylittlecarrot · 28/02/2008 18:41

A brief update before our paediatrician's appointment tomorrow. Baby carrot has gained 2 lb since my OP on this thread, she's now at the still small but for us huge weight of 11 lb 10 oz at 31 weeks old. She's averaging 8 oz a week at the moment. She's even begun to nudge the bottom-most line on the WHO bf babies charts.

I've written a montrously huge letter which I intend to hand over to the paed and have put in her file, basically disagreeing that she is FTT, and countering each inaccuracy / assumption in his letter. I've volunteered to have my milk composition tested at the milk bank facility. I've asked him to suggest a diagnostic test which would establish if my milk was insufficient. I've enlightened him on the research against weaning before 6 months which was my reason for waiting against his advice. I've provided him with the respective calorific values of breastmilk and baby rice. I've asked him for references for his 'motor delay' observations.

And I've asked him to look again at dd and reconsider his diagnosis, else I shall be seeking a second opinion.

I kept it as dispassionate as I could, until the end where I basically said that the FTT connotations were frequently negative and often damning of one's parental skills, and it was a diagnosis that shouldn't be used lightly.

I'll keep things as delightfully friendly as I can, ask him to reassess the situation and hand over the letter at the end.

What do you think?

OP posts:
tiktok · 28/02/2008 19:53

VLC - you are a star

But - can I comment on the letter? Don't offer to have your milk tested. There are no evidence-based tests for breastmilk adequacy - it would be pointless, as milk constituents differ all the time (that's what makes breastmilk so ecxllent ). Offering to have your milk tested makes you look ill-informed, something which you are not. Milk banks test for purity (in case the mother uses drugs) not for nutrients, which are assumed to be top-notch.

The rest of your letter is fine. You might suggest to him that he uses the more up-to- date term, which is not failure to thrive, but faltering growth - you could even give him a reference for this. There are a no. of papers on this, but this is quite good

tiktok · 28/02/2008 19:54

On the topic of milk bank testing - I think they test for cleanliness of the sample, as well .

verylittlecarrot · 28/02/2008 22:17

tiktok, super advice, thanks. Actually, the advice to have my milk tested came from an ABM bfc who has been trying to help us recently. I thought I'd make the offer to try to make the point that I was willing to endure any test if they felt there was any question over quality or quantity (and to make the more subtle point that nobody has actually bothered to think about what exactly the problem could be, and how to fix it). I've read what you've posted in the past about composition of breastmilk which is why I felt confident in offering! But I'll remove the offer, I think, you make a very good point.

I nearly did put in a comment about FTT / faltering growth too, but didn't have the appropriate reference - so your link is brilliant, thanks! (I'm thanking my lucky stars that babycarrot absolutely loves her food - all food in fact, so I hopefully won't encounter the problems those poor parents do in that link.)

When this is over and done with tomorrow, I'll be back with a couple of questions. I'd kind of like to do a brainstorm on what might have caused such a slow weight gain on excl bf, in light of the recent huge weight gain on solids. Not so that I can self-flagellate, but because I have this overwhelming need to understand, to have an explanation. I think I'm in a place now where I'm ready to hear what may not have been quite right for us - from people whose knowledge and opinions I trust and respect. And I'm aware that if I never 'diagnose' the problem, I can't change anything, and may encounter the same issue with possible future babycarrots - if I should be so lucky as to have them.

I also want to protect our longterm bf relationship, and I'm aware that the very quick increase in solids intake might jeopardise this if I'm not careful, so I need to take on board tips for that too.

Thanks for taking the time to help again.

OP posts:
moondog · 28/02/2008 23:04

Fantastic VLC (and as always, Tiktok never fails to dazzle me with her intelligence and general on-the-ballness.)

tiktok · 29/02/2008 09:31
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