Help -- dont get letdown with expressing -- have I tried everything??

[wish2babywear]

I am trying to express milk with a good electric pump. Milk supply seems to be good (baby growing fine), but I am just unable to get any reasonable amounts pumped. tried it at home with baby in front of me, baby sucking on other breast and pumping the same breast baby sucked on. I get two good gushes and then it stops completely. If I detach and reattach it I again get two good gushes and then it stops (would take ages to express at that rate, though). dont have leaky breast in general. Is there anything left I can try or do have to use formula when I will return to work (really dont want to)?? Thank you!

Hi, unfortunately I don't have any great tips, but had this exact problem with my DD, now 2.5yrs, and the more I tried, the worse it got. With DS, 5 months, I have expressed really well with a handheld pump from the outset - I just can't tell you why there was a difference - other than the first try with DD was with electrical pump, which i threw away in a fit of annoyance. I was also a lot more stressed as first time mum after an emergency c-section. So this time with DS I only bought a cheaper avent hand held, and maybe because I had low expectations and the constant noise of the electric pump was absent, it just flowed from the get go.

For some people it just doesn't work that well though - try not to beat yourself up about it - maybe leave it for a few days and try again -and maybe see about buying a handheld pump. They sell really cheap 2nd hand on ebay if your not squeamish about that kind of thing!

hi WISH firstly you dont say how old your baby is? if baby is a few months old and an established feeder, you will only get small results. if you plan to express more regularly you need to build up your milk supply. in order to do this you will need to pump a few times a day for a few days.

best time to pump is after first morning feed when your breasts are at their fullest, pump from the breast least used (if you know what i mean)
i used to stimulate let down by twiddling nipples for a couple of seconds, then as soon as i felt it i would start pumping, at best i only got 4oz at one sitting so dont expect to express enough for full feed in one go.
i also used to pump just after late night feed ie 11pm.

i also never got used to electric pump (like a sticking a dyson on your norks and found i preferred the avent hand pump. hope this helps, good luck xx

I returned to work a few months ago and used to express at lunchtime. Some days its was hard and only got a couple of oz but I found be being really relaxed ie I used to try meditating chant I used when pregs, and say it in my head for a few minutes before starting . I also tried looking at a picture of my DD before I pumped and thought about her in my head whilst pumping. I always used a manual pump worked for me. Drinking lots of water an hour or so before I expressed helped to. You can mix breast and formula I got told so if you dont have enough you could do that. I really worried going back to work and BF but it worked out ok. Good luck.

Thanks a lot for your replies. DS is 8 weeks old and I would say BF is well established. At this point I try to get him used to also feed from the bottle. I was told/read it's a good to start this early, so that they get used to both. Right now I just tried to pump and DH gives it to him more or less immediately. Do I need to build up milk supply for this, too? I would have thought I would need any extra for this?
Will try the nipple twiddling and see if I get better along will a handpump. Would be grateful for more and alternative suggestions.

I'm sure some mums would disagree, but I introduced a bottle of expressed milk with DS from about 3 weeks at the 11pm feed as I want to avoid any extra stress when I went back to work (5 weeks away ). I think the advice to drink lots of water at least an hour before is a good one, and also to eat a good meal. I used to find that expressing at about 9/9.30pm was best. Had a chance to chill once DC's were in bed, eat something, drink lots, then would pump whilst watching I'm a celebrity or some other such mindless and diverting drivel! I found it good not to focus on the pumping, which is much easier with handheld as they aren't as noisy - I also bought two to keep on top of sterilizing. One did develop a bit of a squeak, but it was nothing compared to the feeling of being a dairy cow that my old electric pump gave me . At my best I could do 7 or 8 oz, but once BF was established, by body wasn't producing this amount of extra milk any more, so it was more like 4oz.

massage breasts beforehand

think about/look at pic of baby

Hello wish - thinking about you. Did you have any more luck with a handheld pump?

sorry to intrude, just started expressing and ds (5 wks) taken to bottle reaally well. i'm using freezer storage bags. i usually get about 3-4 oz in one go, can i put that in fridge then top bag up throughout the day then freeze?? seem to think this is a no no, any other do's n donts welcome

The standard advice is to think about or look at baby, but I have one friend who only ever got good results if she kind of zoned out in a bored way and didn't think about the baby at all -- so could be worth trying it both ways.

Hi Kelbel,

I think think strictly speaking this is probably not a great idea as you are supposed to freeze as soon as pumped. However, the better advice is to freeze your BM in smaller amounts anyway. You'll find the amount your LO drinks will change all the time, so it's easier if you have BM bags in freezer with smaller amounts in so you can add them up to the right amount, rather than defrost 5 oz and need to defrost another 4oz just because you need a 6 oz feed (though not to suggest your LO would necessarily be feeding this amount so early). Does that make sense? Though am sure really there's no problem with topping up your BM bottle through the day. Keep it at back of fridge as is colder there, rather than in the door, for e.g.

LOL portandlemon! That's exactly what I did - watching my cr*ppy programmes meant I didn't get stressed thinking "must feed my baby, must feed my baby".

brill thanks - what about defrosting? microwave a no no? what if want to take a bottle out? defrosting? warming? i'm trying to become an expert!x

You can't defrost in microwave as it kills all the goodstuff in your BM. Either put frozen back of milk in mug of hot water or just leave it out (but takes, like forever). I warmed frozen BM at the same time as defrosting, if that makes sense - leave in the hot water and keep jiggling the bag until all icy lumps gone -once they have it's normal nicely warmed through as well. If you're just warming from fridge you can use a bottle warmer or for cheaper alternative, again, just stick bottle in a mug of hot water .

That's frozen BAG, not back!

Hi Wish2babywear, and others - DD 4 weeks old; decided to try expressing right from the start, successful beginnings 2 weeks ago, was getting 30mls a time, twice a day. (Avent Isis handpump is brill, fiver from ebay! Tommee Tippee Closer to Nature bottles also fab - no 'confusion' there at all.) But then DD had 3 week growth spurt, sucked all day long, and now I am having similar probs to you.

Massaging helps, sometimes 'lifting' the boob up and moving the pump round seems to help, but I'm gonna try 'meditating' as suggested, and drinking more water.

Am VAGUELY following Gina Ford routine (only because I need SOMETHING to follow, am such a scatterbrain: if DD doesn't think it's feed time, sleep time or play time, then it ain't, IYKWIM!) She says express 60-90ml before 1st feed. I once squeezed 40 out leaving DD with only paltry leftovers, she seemed unsatisfied all day long! So began expressing AFTER 1st feeding and get 30mls at most. Ford's instructions seem totally unachievable!

QUESTIONS: I had emergency CS and have been VERY down about it; will this affect supply? Also have infection in incision (nice); been really run-down - will this affect it? Pain from surgery makes BF awkard and uncomfortable, will this affect let-down? I DON'T FEEL ANY LET-DOWN, no tingling or anything; have never leaked at all ... DD gaining weight v nicely, clearly feeding enough but sometimes seems to need to suck all day long - with lots more sucking than SWALLOWING, which makes me worry that I'm only ever going to produce exactly what she needs from one hour to the next. I'd like to express enough to have spare in the freezer, and have 'breaks' but it seems there's no hope at all of that - will this change? I understand this is a crucial time for encouraging more milk ducts to grow, or something? All advice appreciated, and hopefully also relevant to Ms Wish? Ta! x

mazzletov all of the problems you have described can affect BF, pain, anxiety, tension means that you are not relaxed and baby will pick up on that. if you want to build up a supply of EBM you will have to do it a couple of times in order to increase supply in the first place.
its very common for babys to comfort suck, you will know that this is different from feeding because it will feel more like a nibble as opposed to a hearty suck. my dd did this and i found introducing a dummy helped (i know some will frown but i was getting very sore).
with regards to your pain, could you try experimenting with different feeding positions? ie rugby ball hold (under arm) or lying down. try these when baby isnt to hungry and inpatient so that you give yourself time to get comfortable first.
as regards to gina ford, i would take your advice from other mumsnetters instead, more realistic!!!

kelbel current guidelines say that you can keep EBM in fridge for a few days as long as it is at the right temp. with regards to topping up EBM, if you express at one sitting and keep that in fridge in a container, if you then express again you can top up but only after the second lot of milk has been cooled to the same temp as that in the fridge (hope this is making sense). fresh EBM will be at body temp so will be warmer than whats in the fridge, thats why you dont mix straight away. if you are planning on freezing what you have expressed this is probably best done within 24 hrs of expressing.
when defrosting always try and do it the night before if possible and defrost it in the fridge. if you need to defrost quickly do this by running warm water from tap over bottle as this will defrost milk slower than if you just put straight into boiling water.

microwave is def no no, for anymore info try breastfeeding network websitewish hope things are going ok for you??
phew i think thats everything, good luck all.

Glitterandsparkle - thanks for your helpful reply - am working on lying down, at first tummy felt sore sagging to the side but thankfully that's receding now!

wish2babywear - this sounds so stupid and obvious but I didn't really work it out myself until yesterday; obviously post-birth brain ... "Pump more" helpful posters keep saying, what I hadn't worked out is: Don't give it to the baby! If we keep feeding the LOs what we're expressing, it doesn't tell our boobs to make MORE than that. We gotta either freeze or dump the pumpings to get the supply to start building up to more than what the babes want in a day. My supply is coming along and I'm getting more out with the pump after 2 days of not bothering to give DD the expressed milk at bedtime. (And drinking more water!!)Good luck x

I have found avent hand pump better than medela mini electric or hand expressing. In 4 sittings over last 24 hours I got 6 oz of EBM (didn't pump overnight), I kept a bottle in the fridge and kept adding to it. This evening I froze half and DH gave the other half to DD in a tommee tippee bottle.

RE: not sterilising, can i put the lid bit over the "let down cushion" and put whole steriliser still attched to bottle in the fridge until cold and then decant into big bottle? Surely not good to have big bottle fastened to pump and keep taking it in/out of fridge? would still have to sterilise bottles for collection?

thanks. am well pissed off with washing up and sterilizng today. don't know how those formula feeders do it. far more hassle than washing my cloth nappies

really feed to sterilise pump between sittings, decant into seperate bottle or those freezer bags.

Am just starting expressing to build a stash for emergencies in the freezer - have managed just 3 1oz bags so far! Question is, how much do you put into a bottle?? Is there a kind of rule-of-thumb - so many ounces per pound of baby or something? There are charts on formula tins but then that's different stuff! Anyone know how much they'd give a baby around 11 lbs for a one-off feed?

housemum - there's an online calculator on www.kellymom.com. only an indicator but quite useful.

I agree with the zoning out and listen to my iPod whilst pumping and have a few piccies of lo to look at. I don't necessarily get more, but it does come out quicker so at least I have a bit more time left from my lunch break at work.

Housemum, I give my LO about 150ml of EBM each feed and she's about 11lb now.

I also use the Avent manual pump and I find I get best let-down results using the pump straight after sterilising (which I do in the microwave) when the pump is still warm from the microwave.