Breastfeeding: when will I have tried long and hard enough?

[iloveorange]

Hello,

Looking for some advice, support and personal stories. I will try to be concise in re to the background:

• 5 week old baby girl - good weight and in good health, never lost weight
• Originally wanted to breastfeed exclusively because I find it more convenient, health reasons and bonding
• Combi fed from day one due to traumatic birth + large and hungry baby, meant she was screaming that very first night in the postnatal ward and my colostrum was just not enough for her (and she stayed on the breast for longer than hour, destroying my nipples in the process)
• Low supply during the first few weeks meant we had to top up with formula after every breastfeed
• Mental health difficulties meant I had to prioritise my sleep and my partner took over night feeds (with formula)
• I have a temperamental baby who will scream whenever she's uncomfortable/frustrated/unsatisfied

My current situation:

• Supply is a lot better - there was this one day a few days ago where I breastfed her exclusively and she was fine throughout the day, so I know I am physically able to breastfeed her. That's why I think she latches fine (also, while sometimes sore, my nipples are not destroyed - just sore because she sucks hard).
• Baby, however, has a strong preference for the bottle. Occasionally, if she's not tired, nor very hungry, nor upset, and the stars align, she will calmly stay on the breast for about 15-30 minutes (and in those moments I love breastfeeding). More often than not, she will latch for about 2-6 minutes, unlatch, scream, latch furiously again, unlatch, scream, etc. I'm pretty sure she's frustrated, when she comes off there is often milk on her face and on my breast, but her facial expressions make me suspect she's frustrated by a slow let down. Either way, she's unhappy.
• I will then offer her the bottle, but by that time she's so upset and frustrated that bottle feeding her will be a struggle for me: there's spit up, crying, etc. So I pass her onto DH, who will feed her and she calms down.
• This all means that feeding has become stressful for me and unpredictable - I never know whether I'll end up rushing to warm up a bottle while my baby screams in the background and my boobs are still hanging out of my nursing bra.
• I'm also pumping just to avoid a blocked duct, which would be just another problem to deal with on top of everything else

My question is: when is it time to quit? I'm struggling to allow myself to just stop trying, hoping that one day - soon - things will change and baby will be happy to breastfeed and all will be well. The reality is that things are not only not improving, but getting worse. I then have to pump, which I don't like (it's painful and a faff), on top of looking after a demanding child. And while I express some milk, it's nothing to write home about (40-80mls in 20-30 mins). And I'm still having to prepare the formula, wash up bottles, sterilise, etc.

I feel like I've been postponing this decision for about a month now, and I can't make up my mind. For example, I have to get new tops and bras, but I won't because I don't know if I need nursing options or standard options. I have already given up on the idea of exclusively breastfeeding (and I'm not sure I could handle it mentally anyway), but at least I would like to be able to reliably breastfeed her (that is, I know that if I put her on the breast, she'll feed from there). Right now I feel like I'm dealing with the faff of formula feeding and the challenges of breastfeeding.

Being realistic, what are the odds things will change at this point? Has anyone been in a similar position? I feel so guilty about quitting (and while my mom and DH are supportive and say I should do whatever's best for me, I also know they are keen on me to go on like this rather than stop), but I also really do not like the current situation I'm in.

The time to quit is whenever the fuck you want to and you don’t feel a millisecond of guilt about that. Your daughter is not going to grow up to be an adult and say “fuck you mum for not putting your entire mental health on the line so I could breastfeed”.

Just do what you want to do. No one can advise you it's completely your choice. Don't feel bad or guilty about anything. Being a mum is hard enough without all that aswell ! Good luck.

If she's pulling off with milk on her face are you sure your let down isn't too fast. Esp if your breasts are engorged. If so I'd pump a little of the spray bit off first then feed.

I would try feeding nore often. Breastfed babies often need many more smaller feeds than bottle babies. I remember every 30 minutes in the early days and nipples like glass!

Try a few things and if it doesn't work, we'll you did your best. You coukd also pump and bottle feed it then still benefits of breastmilk.

I think you need to do whatever you want to do. If you want to carrying on breastfeeding, and it sounds like you might want to, then there's some work to do to bring it back to better results. Early combination feeding can have catastrophic consequences for the milk supply - basically the breasts only make milk to replace the milk the baby has removed, so the more formula you give, the less milk you will make. Which can lead to a frustrated baby at breast

A lot of babies prefer the bottle, because it's far less work and much quicker let down. If you want to go back to exclusively breastfeeding, I would suggest getting the slowest and smallest teats you can for this transition period. She will get angry, but that's ok, she will get used to it in time.

For quicker let down I would suggest massaging your breast while she's latched on - my daughter was very similar in that she wanted milk RIGHT NOW and she was fuming it wasn't enough. I would do breast compressions (like a c-shaped sandwich) to get the letdown quicker. You can also use a brush to stroke.

The first few weeks are hard, but it does get easier. Good luck 💜

I lasted a week with my first and felt at that stage I was force feeding him. He preferred the bottle and was calmer with dh whilst I pumped. My second I pushed and pushed and pushed, I took it each feed at a time, I weaned him off formula and was able to exclusively feed.

So I think it's when the urge to stop is the primary feeling. You go feed by feed until you either think fuck this bullshit or you think oh actually it's easy now.

also as a parent you're more than likely to feel guilty about absolutely everything so accept the guilt and make it your bitch because as a new parent you'll feel guilty whether you do x or don't do x.

A piece of advice someone gave to me is no one is going to come and give you medal for breastfeeding. If you don’t want to do it don’t force yourself. The only person who can make that decision is you and absolutely no one else.

It's absolutely up to you. I understand though it wasn't until a doctor told me it was ok to stop (my mental health was absolutely shot) that I did. And even then I had horrendous guilt and felt awful about it. When you look back in 6 months time or so it will barely be a thought in your brain, you'll be so busy.

I think only you can decide this OP. It's different for every woman and even within that different for every child. My firstborn really struggled to breastfeed, so I made the choice to exclusively pump for a year. I'm glad I made that choice with him but it was also bloody hard. When I got pregnant with my second child I decided if breastfeeding didn't work I was willing to try and make it to six months of pumping but I wasn't willing to do a full year again. It was also really hard at times to establish feeding with her for similar reasons to the ones outlined in your post. For us we managed to keep going and around 8-10 weeks old it was like something clicked for both of us and it became a little easier. I know it's easy to say you make the choice as to how to feed your baby whenever you want to; and equally I remember how tormented I felt myself about debating whether to keep trying to breastfeed, express or switch to formula. But I will say your mental health in all of this is really important, so I'd be led by whatever your gut is telling you right now and keep revisiting your options to see if it changes x

Go with your gut. I didn't stop BFIng and really regret that as it wrecked the first half of my maternity leave, making it utterly miserable and stopping me bonding with my baby. We had endless problems including an emergency readmission for dehydration, then low supply, then a galactocele that had to be aspirated at the breast cancer clinic.

I got people saying stuff like 'never give up on a bad day'. But we never had a good day of BFing!

My baby is 4 months. When she was 4 weeks old we discovered she wasn't gaining weight. The Dr told me to put her on formula. I contacted a lactation consultant who put me on a schedule to increase my milk supply. It was a totally gruelling process.

I really, really wanted it to work and threw everything at it. The pumping, triple feeding, galactogoues, water, relaxation techniques. Nothing was working. I was so miserable and I said to my husband that I knew in my heart that I couldn't do anymore and couldn't go on trying. I wanted to enjoy my baby and put a line under breastfeeding.

My milk came in fully the next day, out of nowhere and I ended up being able to exclusively breastfeed. I'm still EBF now.

If my milk hadn't come in that day, I would have moved onto formula. I was ready. I lfelt it was the only sane option and had a kind of peace about it, while sad. I knew I could do no more. I had nothing left to give.

Breastfeeding is great etc etc but it's not worth your mental health. Formula is a fantastic substitute for breastmilk and there are many pros to using it. If you haven't already, see a lactation consultant, see what she says, and go fron there. At any point you want to stop, stop.

I had a hellish time trying it breastfeed my 2 DDs. Looking back I should have quit sooner. You’ve fed her for 5 weeks. That’s not nothing. My new mantra: fed is best.

If the thought of stopping fills you with an amazing feeling of relief, then now is the time to stop. That’s how I felt when I decided to stop. It was 3 months for me, but the actual time isn’t relevant.

When you decide you want to change feeding methods, it’s the right time.

The most important thing is your baby is fed, and you are also looking after your own mental and physical health.

If formula is the best way for you to do that, then do that.

When I stopped I was ok with it. I just realised that I was pushing it for minimal results and because I wanted to prove someone else wrong, rather than because it was actually doing anything for ds. I'm glad I gave it a good go, and sure I'd do some things differently if I got another chance, but we were where we were and it was ok. It was actually amazing to reach that point after so much stress and difficulty including admission to hospital.

They say not to stop on a bad day.

If you want to give it one last go I suggest a day on the sofa / in bed with baby. Just be together, shove the telly on, have food and drink on hand and just cuddle and feed when she wants and see what happens.

You can also try nipple shields to see if she likes those.

I really struggled at first. It finally sorted itself out around ten weeks and I went on to feed until 14 months BUT it totally dominated those first few months and really impacted on my experience of the newborn phase so if I have another I will give it til six weeks to work as well as I need it to, not longer. It's so easy to get stuck in a cycle of trying new things/hoping it will improve week after week and at the end of the day I know DD and I would both have been totally fine without it.

More often than not, she will latch for about 2-6 minutes, unlatch, scream, latch furiously again, unlatch, scream, etc. I'm pretty sure she's frustrated, when she comes off there is often milk on her face and on my breast, but her facial expressions make me suspect she's frustrated by a slow let down.

As a PP said, this sounds like it could be a fast let down. Also do wind burp during feeds? When my little one is unlatching and relatching it’s often because she has to burp and it can be as soon as a few minutes after the feed has started.

@iloveorange

It's such a struggle to make decisions when you're in the thick of it all. If you're thinking about stopping breastfeeding then that's absolutely fine and you've got to do what is right for you and put yourself first. Sounds like your baby is thriving but that you could do with a boost. I was in the same situation exactly a year ago. I had PND and had to give up breastfeeding because I couldn't do nights anymore. It all absolutely broke me. But my baby loved formula and he's doing so well (a toddler!). I am good too and I often think back to that time and long to give myself a break and tell myself that it's ok to stop and make that decision for myself. Best of luck to you and just do whatever you know deep down is right for you x

Hi again :)

I wanted to thank all of you for your advice and support, and for 'giving me permission' to quit. I also appreciate the personal experiences so much, and it's interesting to learn that sometimes you push for things and end up making it work, but then realise it was not worth the effort and sacrifice in the first place.

The reality is that we have a beautiful girl that can be quite challenging a lot of the time. She struggles with gas and overtiredness (because she can't fall asleep easily), and cries more than your average baby, so there is a lot of time spent just soothing her and getting her to sleep. She also doesn't particularly like hanging out at the breast, so putting her on it every 30 minutes is just not an option. Neither is doing lots of cuddling or skin to skin - holding her is like holding a cat, she will scratch you and kick you and try to climb up your torso. She loves being held up straight and falling asleep on you, but on her own terms. It's two of us at home (DH is on leave as well) and by the end of the day we are truly exhausted - even finding the time to pump more than twice a day is hard for me.

I think I will give it another week, as they say breastfeeding is established by week 6, but unless I see a drastic difference compared to the last two weeks I think I'll start weaning her off BM. Although a couple of PP mentioned that for them it established at around weeks 8-10... God, it's so hard to make these decisions without being able to peer into the future.

Honestly I am not sure things will magically get better just with time. Breastfeeding support can be shocking in this country. Are you getting any support from somebody who works with breastfeeding support as their main role? Not a HV or midwife who has done a weekend course, but an infant feeding specialist, or breastfeeding counsellor, (ABM, NCT) or IBCLC? If you want to continue, then I would seek out one of those avenues for support. Infant feeding specialists work for the NHS and you can ask for a referral. ABM/NCT breastfeeding counsellors offer their support for free on a voluntary basis. You can google this + your area. IBCLCs are private practice and charge for their time. Again you can google and many now work remotely. If they do not give you any new information, then stick with your time goal.

Otherwise, I completely agree that breastfeeding is not worth doing damage to your mental health and you should stop if the idea of stopping feels like a relief.

Stop when you want to.

For me, breastfeeding became easy at around the 3 month mark. Until then it was unpredictable, painful etc, sometimes I used formula. I also produced a lot of milk so I often had to either use a milk catcher (like HAAKA) or pump. My friend had the same experience with her baby too.

It gets skated over a bit but I think there is a lot to be said about the baby becoming good at breastfeeding, honestly I had to reposition my DD so much in the early days, she often had trouble latching no matter what I did and my nipples were so sore. Also she would often let go or choke as my letdown was too strong as there was just so much milk, so that was difficult.

But by the time she was 3 months old, simultaneously she and I became good at it, and my milk supply calmed down.

The best decision for you is what works for you - if you want to persist with breastfeeding then go for it, once everything settles down it's highly convenient to be able to breastfeed. Maybe go and have an appointment with a midwife/lactation specialist for extra help.

Nothing wrong with combination or formula feeding either. If you do want to go with bottles then I recommend getting all the equipment (warmer, steriliser etc) to make things easier.

I struggled for four weeks. Really really struggled. A lot of your story resonates with me. I spent so much money on lactation consultants and pumps and all sorts of stuff and we never managed it. After I got mastitis my supply dwindled to nothing and we decided to stop flogging a dead horse and move to formula. My baby also has reflux and I’m struggling so much with all of it. I don’t have any advice but wanted to tell you that you aren’t alone x

I agree with stop whenever the fuck you want! It’s not the be all and end all and you’ve done 5 weeks.

However, I also recognise a lot (all!) of what you’re describing from DD1. Turned out she had tongue tie and I had fast let down. A combination which meant she was full of air the whole time. Tongue tie snip and change of position made a huge difference to both feeding and sleeping. Have you seen a (good!) lactation consultant?

I could have written this post a few months ago. I decided in the end to just stop and my mental health soared. It wasn't an easy decision but now feeding is regular and calm and the whole household just feels relaxed again.
Good luck x