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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

Quick help for my sister with 2 day old...bf is agonising

34 replies

margoandjerry · 09/01/2008 13:15

I really struggled with bf but it was never painful so don't know how to advise her.

Baby seems to be latched on really well, definitely taking loads, mouth looks right (very open, top lip folded up, bottom lip folded down, all of nipple and areola area taken in quite deeply- I remember that's how my daughter looked when we got it cracked). She's getting loads and there's plenty of it but my sister is saying it's like rubbing broken glass into a blister .

She was hesitant about bf but is now quite committed to it and I don't want this awful pain to get in her way. She says it's hideous for 1 minute and then just painful the rest of the time. Last night she said she nearly broke down with the pain.

She's still in hosp and all the midwives are being great. She's slathering on the cream and soldiering on but is there anything else to think of.

Thanks for any tips.

OP posts:
nimnom · 09/01/2008 13:19

I had this with both ds's and you just have to persevere, it does get better. Tell her, though that between feeds cabbage leaves are very soothing and great for swelling.
Tell her good luck from me

tiktok · 09/01/2008 14:27

This sounds more than inititial tenderness, though one can't be sure....I have seen too many mothers who have been told by the midwife that all is well with positioning and attachment and it really isn't

Has the baby been checked for tongue tie? Would self-attachment be worth a try?

Not sure why cabbage leaves would be helpful - they're for pain caused by engorgement, and this is something different.

Sorry not to help more - someone else needs to see her, I think.

clapton · 09/01/2008 14:39

I had this with my daughter who is now three. It was so painful, I couldn't even have anybody sit next to me. I just kept on with it and I found the more I did it the easier it got. I really wanted to b/f put I used to dread it in a way because I knew it would really hurt.

I had lots of chats with the midwife as everything else seemed fine, latching on okay and wanted to feed etc but the pain was so horrible, I thought it was worse than labour. The midwife was great and explained that initally some women can find b/f very painful to start with. My mother was the same but my sisdter was fine.

I know i have no real advice put just wanted to share my experience.

singyswife · 09/01/2008 14:41

Hi yeah I had this with both of my dd's. I wuld brace myself before they latched on and curl my toes until the "hideous" part had passed. I does get better and it is soooo worth it.

ChubbyShcotsBurd · 09/01/2008 14:46

Is she using Lansinoh? I put this on all the time and after every feed, and left my nips open to the air . I agree with tiktok that it does sound more painful than you would expect. In my own experience I'd say really teeth-clenching burning for around 10 seconds (I would count) then it faded to a tugging sensation.

I reckon she'd benefit from a BFC, or at least getting every single midwife to recheck the latch to be sure. Otherwise it will pass, promise!

Moocho · 09/01/2008 15:14

I had this with my ds. It was so painful I had to gag on something each time he latched on. I found the nipple shields really helpful. Mothercare sell them. They're soft plastic and you put then over the nipple and then baby latches on to them instead of your aching nipples! I breastfed for 4 months which I never thought I would, considering the torture I went through for the first few weeks. There's different views about them but the way I see it, it was either breast feed with them or not at all. There's plenty of discussions on mumsnet about them. Good luck!

hellish · 09/01/2008 15:17

Keep going, don't give up, it was so painful for me for the first 5 weeks, but so worth it after that.

Lansinhoh as often as possible, try thinking of every feed as one feed closer to pain free feeding. - Helped me when I thought I just couldn't bear to feed her again.

Also - ignore people (usually HVs) who say it only hurts if baby not latched on right. It just does hurt for some people at first.

Original poster
margoandjerry · 09/01/2008 15:31

Thanks so much.

Yes toe curling is exactly right. She was literally curling her toes yesterday, poor girl. Will send out troops for the shields - appreciate that they don't always help but it might be nice to have somethign else to try. She is slathering on lansinoh. Will also suggest air drying although she is very modest so may be resistant at first (I would have been too but by the end was content to let it all hang out!)

It's funny - she really wasn't keen on the idea of BF but now it's so tough, she's really determined to continue!

TikTok, what is self attachment?

OP posts:
Lomond · 09/01/2008 15:37

breastcrawl.org/

ChubbyShcotsBurd · 09/01/2008 15:38

Good for her margo - determination is what's needed really.

Not sure if tiktok meant this but might help anyway

ChubbyShcotsBurd · 09/01/2008 15:39

That sounded bad - determination will help a lot is what I meant - good support and advice is what's needed

Lomond · 09/01/2008 15:41

It is so good of you to support her. I wished I had someone to help

I had this problem with dd2 (now 6.5mths) only the pain wouldn't go away. If I had got more help from the midwives and my hv maybe I could have continued.

Tell her to call for advice and not to give up.

tiktok · 09/01/2008 15:50

No air drying, please....we stopped suggesting this about 10 years ago, because moist wound healing is the way to go (sore/grazed/cracked nipples get better sooner that way...in particular grazed or cracked nipples should not be air dried as that forms a scab which then lifts off when the baby feeds, leaving raw skin. Ow ow ow ow).

And nipple shields ditto! They have their place, but there are huge drawbacks. I have seen them used successfully when the mother 'fits' the shield but hardly any mother does - mostly the shield is a few mms longer than the nipple, and this is prob why they do not help with latch at all. Check mumsnet archives for the disadvantages of nipple shields.

This mum needs to see someone new!

yes, self attachment is like breast crawl, but breast crawl is only one form of it. Skin to skin and biological nurturing positions allow self attachment.

ChubbyShcotsBurd · 09/01/2008 15:55

Thank heavens for you tiktok [shuts up about air drying and wonders how much pain could have been avoided by ignoring advice to air dry ]

Caz10 · 09/01/2008 16:19

good luck to your sister, I am still in quite a bit of pain after 4 weeks, but it is getting very slowly better. only marginally though! but advice from a bfc has really helped!

tiktok why do you think there is so much duff info out there? do midwives etc not get up to date training? i was told to air dry too! and that's just one e.g.

tiktok · 09/01/2008 16:19

Chubby, the use of lansinoh would have protected you from the effects of air drying - makes air drying safe but pointless!

ChubbyShcotsBurd · 09/01/2008 16:25

LOTS of duff info ... I suppose it doesn't take a lot of thinking about tiktok but in my hormonal, post-section fug that didn't cross my mind!

Margo - I forgot to say that she'll also need cake

tiktok · 09/01/2008 16:27

Nobody should still be talking about air drying....prob for most people it won't do a huge lot of harm, but it's inconvenient and impractical and some women don't like doing it.

There's been no proper trial of this as far as I know, and the moist wound healing (the basis of lansinoh, gelnet and other 'stuff') comes from dermatology and modern-day post-surgery norms for care, and not from breastfeeding specialists, so we cannot point to research and say 'air drying is bad for sore nipples'.....but if it works for one area of the body (as it does), it's gonna work for nipples, too, and the 'air dry and form scab - feed baby and see scab lift off and unhealed skin underneath' cycle is well-known from observation, and it's known that it's a killer.

Why do some midwives not know this? I don't know It's not a state secret.

lulumama · 09/01/2008 16:33

howbreastfeedingworks.com/tag/breastfeeding/ this is a link to hunker's breastfeeding blog, which has lots of info and the numbers for the four main breastfeeding helplines

NCT can often be a good place to start, they usually have bf counsellors who can come and see your sister

also

www.kellymom.com is a brilliant site

FourPlusOne · 09/01/2008 16:35

I had this horrible pain too with DC1. It took a good few weeks to get to the point where it wasn't toe curlingly painful every time he latched on and about 2 months in total for there to be no pain when I fed. Initially was caused by bad latch on, and had to keep pulling baby off and re-positioning even though it hurt every time I did it. I just convinced myself thet it would get less painful over time and thank god it did! I had the same problems with DC2 as well. I obviously have a tough time 'starting them off' - once they both got the hang of it there were no problems! Am very envious of those who have a baby who latches on straight away and don't have these initial problems. Dreading the first week or so of feeding DC3!

lisad123 · 09/01/2008 16:36

check for tongue tie, i suggested on for a week before someone notice dd2 had one, oh my god the pain of bf was terrible.
now past 4 months and still going strong
Good luck

Stefka · 09/01/2008 17:00

Has she been checked for infections? I had two and it took them ten days before they thought to check.

Original poster
margoandjerry · 09/01/2008 22:35

loads more great comments here. Will cross off the air drying and try the video approach. I have seen that video before and it's lovely.

Also will get baby checked for tongue tie.

this is all great stuff. I hope I can help her through the first few days/weeks.

OP posts:
Caz10 · 10/01/2008 09:25

Sorry, crashing, but Stefka what type of infections did you have, and what were the symptoms, if you don't mind saying? One of my boobs is AGONY atfer a feed, lasts pretty much till the next feed! Really bad burning sensation, but no red lumps or anything, in actual fact it looks the healthiest it has since I started! But - OW!

nimnom · 10/01/2008 10:10

Tiktok,
I wasn't suggesting that cabbage leaves helped with the latching on pain, but they were very soothing in between and helped with the overall experience - sorry if I didn't make myself clear.