Routine and Gina Ford

[ca3004]

My DS is 4 weeks old, and has not really come into a routine yet. (Also I am panicing about the amount of time he spends asleep, as he is only awake about 4 - 6 hours a day). I am breast feeding and have started to express so he can also take bottles as well.

I am intending to go back to work in 3 months time (not out of choice), and I am starting to panic about how I am going to manage the whole routine. (I start work at 8am and finish at 5pm, and I live 40 minutes from work). So it is going to be unbelievable long work/nursery days for both of us.

I am not sure if I am being unrealistic or not. I have read Gina Fords Contented Baby and I am wondering if I should try and follow this.

Has anyone similar experiences that you could share?

4 weeks is way too early to be worried about a routine. My 9 week old still doesnt have one lol, so don't worry just yet.
Your ds will be still sleeping most of the time, that's fine. Mine does too, and as I say he is 9 weeks.
I wouldn't stress too much about getting into a routine yet, you have a reasonable amount of time to get him settled down.
I wouldn't go down the GF route personally, I've always found it much easier to let baby find their own routine. Plus, you're still in the early days of breastfeeding which a routine isn't necessarily the best thing for.

I think your ds is most likely to slot into the nursery routine when he gets there. Would, IMO, be pointless following a rigid GF routine only for it to potentially jar with that of your own needs, his needs and the set up at nursery.
If you have already arranged the nursery, why not try and find out from them what general routine they have?
He's tiny still at the moment. If you want to get a semblence of a predictable routine, maybe think about trying to work out when he would need to be up to go to nursery and start from there.
I would not, myself, want to waste the precious time you have at home following CLBB because trying for a couple of days reduced me to a nervous, self-questioning wreck with a dd who so did not want to be kicking on her playmat at a proscribed time.

ca3004 you will find that we are not, as a general rule, that open to Gina Ford's system of routines on MN .. it is rather a touchy subject here since she threatened to sue the site for 'defamation' and there were serious negotions in place before it was resolved

Way too early to expect a routine to have developed naturally. He'll be a whole different baby in a month or so. If it makes you feel better, start with a evening routine - feed, bath, feed, sleep etc - but he may be about to hit a growth spurt and feed a lot in the evenings. You could also try taking him out in pram roughly the same time each day and let him nap there but it will probably mean more to you than him ! Best advice is to be prepared for changes, enjoy him as he is, you won't have this time again and it passes so quickly, and go with it. Don't feel pressured to force a routine as a pattern will develop over time anyway.

Babies do not need routines, unless they fall into them naturally, and some do. All they need is responsive care, that treats their needs as important, which is what we might call 'love' with a different name

Three months ahead is a l....o....n....g time, and if you try to establish the sort of routine you will need when you go back to work, you risk shoehorning your baby into a pattern than doesn't meet his needs...unnecessarily, as it is so far into the future!

Make the most of these important and lovely early months to meet your baby's normal, natural needs, and then a couple of weeks or so before you go back to work, think again about working towards something that will accommodate your day....this will be plenty of time for you and him to do this. I wonder if some of your panic is anticipating the real challenge to you, which is (I am guessing) not the routine, but leaving your baby for so long (10-11 hours) which would be hard for any new mum. It's difficult to be without a choice in this matter, and no wonder you feel sad about it Any chance of putting it off, going part-time, job-share, shorter hours??

As regards the sleeping - yes, he is sleeping a lot. This is not necessarily a bad thing if he is growing and thriving, but I would wonder how much time there was for actually feeding him But I gather he's ok? The concern would be if he wasn't growing and thriving.

Hope this helps a bit.

As everyone else has said, babies as young as yours do not have routines, or rather they do, but routines of their own, your DS has decided his routine is to sleep most of the day!

His routines will probably change a million and one times before he goes to nursery and IME nurseries do have a routines they like to stick to, but they will adhere to the routine your baby has.

When my DS went to nursery he was 9months old and had a routine that fitted us and I had to jot down on a form when I took him in what times he had had feeds/sleep etc and what time I wanted him to have them, they did their best to fit in with those times.

Thank you all for your support..... words of reassurance that I desperately need today.

Tiktok - he is feeding well - put on 10oz last week (bit of a growth spurt). He just seems to be sleeping and feeding and not really taking much notice of the world around him. And yes the thought of leaving him is cutting me up already. Work is a bit complicated as it is a family business and our busiest times are early morning and late afternoon.... and we have 2 other girls about to start maternity leave, so I am setting a precedent on what ever I do when I go back to work.... too complicated.

Won't mention GF again under the circumstances - oops!!

Loved the idea of regular walks - yes i need to get out more. Next week we are starting a new mums class which I am really looking forward to... can't wait to meet some new people.

Thanks again to everyone.

This message board is great.

ca I got some good advice when ds was 4 weeks old: "You spend 2 weeks trying to work out what their routine is, and by then they've gone and changed anyway..." It was true.
I completely agree about responsive parenting, going with the flow, noticing your baby's routine if he develops one and going with that - having said that, a lot of people feel they ought to be doing more about it. I blame generations of routine-based propaganda! Having just spent some time at Christmas with a set of parents who were obsessed by afternoon nap times, I would say: don't go down that road if you don't want to and can avoid it at the moment! It seems to take over people's lives a bit and adds another stressful dimension to parenting that needn't be there - babies aren't meant to nap at the same time each day, they just do what their bodies tell them at this point!

Your lo is still very little, so don't worry about work and routines yet. Things change all the time, you could establish a routine of sorts then he'll have a growth spurt, a cold or an injection and it'll throw a spanner in the works.

GF worked very well for DS1, but he was a wee bit older. If it does appeal to you, then I would suggest taking the basics and applying them. I used the feeding times and found that the sleep times followed. If you follow it to the letter you may get more stressed about the routine and not enjoy these early days.

The routine is useful, but do not get hung up on it as then it can become a negative thing.

I went back to work ft when DS was 4.5 months old, and never had a routine with him then, nor did nursery. They (and I) were happy for him to have milk and naps as he wanted them, and its only now at 19 months that he has a recognisable routine.
All you need to be able to achieve is getting out of the house on time in the morning, so if you try to start getting up, dressed, fed by the time you would need to go to work, it really helps when you go back as thats the end of the day thats more of a shock than anything.

4 weeks is young, but I did find that my dd slotted in fairly well and easily to the GF sleep routines - but I think I started later. For me, I found that the suggested times seemed to be what she naturally followed, so there wasn't an issue of pressurising her.

Thought GF was great - I used GF's sleep routines as a loose guide, and ignored the draw sheets (still dont know what one is) and the "be dressed with a piece of toast by 7am" stuff. For me I wanted a guide as we were going abroad for a month at 10 weeks old and I thought it would help to have something familiar to help her adjust given that there was quite big time difference.

She refused to sleep at nursery - was too nosey, but this didn't seem to make a difference at weekends when again she seemed to naturally follow the sleep guides. DS is the same.

People on here tend to get quite heated about GF, but as long as you follow your instincts, don't feel you have to follow anything to the letter, you should be fine. Many many people have found her useful as a guide, many have followed her to the regimented letter (which is a bit OTT - know of people refusing to go to stay anywhere without a blackout blind...) - and just as many have found her routines unnacceptable in all forms. BUT, my children did not find the sleep routines difficult - if they had then I would have maybe looked elsewhere for help.

ca - your baby sounds fine and that's a handsome weight gain At 4 weeks, plenty of babies are not yet taking much notice, and his 'programming' may be 'telling him' to 'feed a lot at the moment' ....he will change over the next few weeks, and as people say, this is where routines fall flat, as the baby changes in a way the routine does not accommodate.

Your work situation sounds difficult. Can I be brutally honest - that is a terrible precedent to set for maternity leave, truly it is, and it seems very unfair on the other female employees (are you in the UK? It doesn't even sound legal, as the employer has to offer flexible working to returning mothers and the option of longer maternity leave , though I admit I am not up to date on the minutiae of maternity rights).

It seems unfair on you, and your family, that you are unable to put your own needs and your baby's needs, at the centre of your life at the moment, especially as it is causing you such anxiety : (

If you have to set a precedent, why not make it a good one!?

has this thing kicke off yet?

If it is a family business is there any chance you get your LO to work ? I have a friend who did that, her MIL and her took time to play with baby and get the work done. Hence you can breastfeed on demand.

Or is there a suitable room at work in which you could place baby with a childminder ?

Or get a childminder superclose to your work ?

So the childminder could bring the baby to you for feeds ?

Suzy I have missed you
(It's Pruni)

Hi Pruni
I can't get on feckin MSN

start a thread so we can chat, I dont' have the ego for it, as you know

ca, I had to go back to work when ds1 and ds2 were 4 months old ( was all that I was entitled to at the time) and when ds3 was 6 months but as he had been 2 months prem, it was the same as if he were 4 months old IYKWIM. I expressed only once a day for ds1, on my lunchbreak, as expressing was considered to be unusual at the time!!! but expressed twice a day for ds2 and ds3 and managed to meet all their needs by doing that. Tbh, I didn't take any notice of what routine the baby had when I was away, I gave nursery 4 oz bottles to use as needed and put in a bottle of formula for emergencies which was never used. Ds3 in particular was always a grazer and would snack-feed all day till he was on solids. I could never really say he had any kind of routine at all.

suzy - I am not getting at anyone who works when their babies are young (if you knew my situation, which I am not about to reveal, you would see I could not possibly do that!). I am in favour of choice, and as the OP would choose not to return to work so soon if she could, I am suggesting ways she might think about to explore her options, as well as suggesting she might think about not restricting the choices of others (ie by refusing to set a precedent for her colleagues).

Soz, loved Gina, agree with idea that you pick and choose bits of it and it was very useful as a general guide. Also, if GF hadn't told me when to have breakfast I would not have been able to sort it out for myself. Not being sarcastic either, so blown away in first few weeks I needed a firm hand.

tiktok - I've had a couple of glasses of merlot and I'm just using my patented catchphrase, no offence

carry on
as you were

ca - really wouldn't worry about trying to settle your baby into a routine. You will work yourself up into a state and you have only a precious few months before you go back to work. Just follow your baby's cue.

FWIW I went back to work ft when my dd was 4 months so I know how hard everything is. I found that once dd was at childminders a routine kind of developed, so i followed that. Much better than trying to impose one routine in order for it to be scuppered once you go back to work.

You say that busy times at work are early mornings and late afternoon. Would it possible for you to start off by doing split shifts - go in 8 til 11, then back in 3 til 5. Then you will see your baby in the middle of the day (would you have time to go home?) and perhaps this would make it easier to continue bf ifd this it what you would like. Perhaps you could do this for a couple of months and then ease back in to doing full days.

CA - I concur with most the other posters, 4 weeks is too young to worry about routine. I have never read GF but find the Baby whisperer fantastic - and started to try and implement elements of that from when DS was 6 weeks old. (Mainly starting with reading cries and trying to understand when he was tired etc.)
I think it was 8 weeks before I started to try routine and (touchwood) at 17 weeks, DS is a very happy baby. It definitely works for him.

Do what works for you both and enjoy him. Dont worry just yet.

4 weeks is still very little but if you feel that easing towards a routine might help you (and your little one) feel more relaxed I would give it a go, but don't get too worked up about it. I loved the GF routines, but used them as a guide rather than sticking rigidly to them. With both my little ones I started to emerge from the baby fog at around 5 weeks and then started to ease them towards GF routines - particularly the nap times she recommends (which I think are key) and the feeding before and after a bath so they take in lots and sleep well. Both my girls picked up on the napping thing really quickly and then the feeds fell into place and in no time their night sleeping extended enormously, so I have nothing but positive remarks about the GF routines - but it might just be that my little ones suited it.

To try and keep the baby awake for longer periods during the day try to give your little one as much natural light and fresh air a possible during the day - not easy in this grotty and freezing weather admittedly. Sunlight seems to help them to adjust their body clocks to day and night I think.

Both mine were exclusively bf, and I did express occasionally so I had a store of milk in the freezer in case I wanted DH or my mum to do a feed, but I certainly didn't follow GF's expressing routine. One thing on bottles, most babies seem to take them with no trouble prior to 6 weeks, but after that it can become a battle. With DD1 I regularly gave EMB in a bottle and so never had any bottle issues, but with DD2 although she took bottles absolutely fine up to about 2 months, I then left it for a couple of weeks and then when she was about 3 months I found there was no way in hell she would take a bottle - just screamed and screamed. I tried fairly regularly but no way. Eventually I gave in and stuck to bf. Some months later when I wanted to stop bf I had to go cold turkey - massive battle to get her to take a bottle, although obviously she did eventually. So if you have introduced a bottle of EBM already my advice would be to try and make sure you give a bottle regularly, at least once every couple of days, so you don't get in the mess that I did when you have to return to work.

I used GF from about 2weeks as a rough guide, I got my dd2 into a fab routine and she is now 2.4yrs and still in a fab routine still napping in the day and is a contented baby! Each to their own though

I found the book helpful because eventually I knew exactly what times of the day I could bath, eat, cook, clean, go out, chill out and it made me less stressed, when she was awake I enjoyed it, I knew when she would sleep and I could get things done then. I knew if she had a bad night I could go back to bed at her nap time no problems which helps at 3am when you're knackered!

I'm also a follower of the "dreaded routine", loosely anyway, like a lot on here. Worked wonderfully on my first and second is heading that way naturally too.

I wonder if I can hijack this thread briefly and ask if anyone has any ideas how to get my 7 week old son to move to a night of 7-7, rather than 11-11?? or closer to 7-7 at least? I can't keep him awake for love nor money, typical man, sleeps through changing, feeding, even bathing at times - obviously the minute I put him in his push chair or the car - he's comatose. He's awake for the right amounts of time, it's like he's pretty much on her routine, just four hours later!