Routine and Gina Ford

[ca3004]

My DS is 4 weeks old, and has not really come into a routine yet. (Also I am panicing about the amount of time he spends asleep, as he is only awake about 4 - 6 hours a day). I am breast feeding and have started to express so he can also take bottles as well.

I am intending to go back to work in 3 months time (not out of choice), and I am starting to panic about how I am going to manage the whole routine. (I start work at 8am and finish at 5pm, and I live 40 minutes from work). So it is going to be unbelievable long work/nursery days for both of us.

I am not sure if I am being unrealistic or not. I have read Gina Fords Contented Baby and I am wondering if I should try and follow this.

Has anyone similar experiences that you could share?

conkey, I am not sure if this is the right folder for this question

You aren't really expecting a 7 week old baby to sleep through the night 7 pm to 7 am, are you?

Sorry if I am misunderstanding!

IF you want a routine, I would recommend 'On Becoming Babywise'. Ideas are similar to GF but more flexible. I've put 5 week old DS on it in a rather loose manner... (as in the book says you have to do feed-wake-nap and sometimes it's too hard to keep them up after a feed!) and it seems to be working well... Fingers crossed!

(Angel now waits for the spoons, forks and knives to be thrown at her!)

I did attempt to follow a sort of routine for dd2 (born last April) - well, it was more "guidelines" really. We never managed to stick to all the feeding times, but it helped me stay sane to have a bit of a target in mind, iuswim. I struggled a bit with depression, so this was something to hold onto. And even if you don't have any type of routine at all in the day, I still think it helps to have a fixed bedtime, 7pm or 8pm or something where they actually "go to bed."

We did the gina ford routine with breast feeding at 3 weeks (as I was miserable before). And it worked for us literally the first day.

Not going to throw anything at you, angel but the Ezzo writings, including BabyWise, are discredited in the US and elsewhere, as having serious dangers.

www.ezzo.info/Articles/chickering.htm is just one of the sources which explain why and www.thecrashpad.com/blogs/index.php/2005/04/27/on_becoming_babywise_our_ezzo_story?blog=8 is a link to a personal experience. There is plenty of other stuff, such as Dr Aney's www.ezzo.info/Aney/Aneypacket.htm

I am sure some parents manage to use this programme without harming their children, or stop using it when they see they are harming them, but anyone reading the book does well to see the evidence against it, in order to have the full picture.

Hi tiktok,

Thanks for the info. Read through them... I have to say though that I would take any of those parenting books with a pinch of salt! Like I said, I've put DS 'loosely' on it... I have no qualms about holding him when he needs to be comforted etc and TBH, he did already have a feeding 'pattern' before we read the book. Also, been watching 'The Baby Whisperer' and picked up tips here, there and everywhere! Also, the negative experience of the parent was because they got sucked in by the whole thing i.e. worrying about the child 'manipulating' you. Phleeaaaaasseee, surely anyone with common sense realises a small baby CANNOT manipulate you!

I do take some good ideas away from the book though. Like recognising your baby's different cries i.e. DS started fussing at 5:30am this morning and I could hear it wasn't a hungry cry. I rocked him for a short while (not recommended in the book BTW!) as he sleeps in an amby and he went to sleep till an hour later, which was more human! LOL... I was also already aware of his Christian beliefs (that being used as a criticism of his book) around how mom and dad's relationship need to be central but have to say the revised version I have barely touched on the Christian elements.

To each his own I suppose but I thank you for pointing out the failings of his method to me! I still find his ideas more palatable than GF's...

Definitely try to get into a bath-feed-bed routine for evenings just even to pave the way for the future but you will find that the baby fits into the nursery routine rather than the nursery fitting to him. Just natural I expect and will happen with no problem.
We used GF loosely also and DD slept from 7pm - 2am - 7am from 7 weeks and then straight through at 12 weeks but don't get caught up in it all. Try the Baby Whisperer who is a bit more flexible.
And if any-one could recommend a GF equivalent for 3 year olds who get up at 6am EVERY DAY and wriggle into bed with you.....!!!!

Tiktok - sorry, just thought I'd mention as everyone else seemed to be talking about it.

And no of course I don't expect him to sleep from 7-7!!!! He has a night and a day and during the night he goes down, wakes after 4 hours for a feed and then after about 5-5 1/2 hours; he was starting this earlier in the evening which was great and it's moved back to starting at 11 which isn't so great for morning school run or for evening meals which is why I'd like to move it back to where it was. But i'm not going to force him or leave him to cry, as I say I'm a loose follower - just take out the bits that suit and what in my experience, my babies do naturally.

I had the GF book and at first with ds (knowing no better) I tried to follow it. I learned 3 things from this: never wake a sleeping baby when they are very little; there is no one routine fits all; and you know what suits your baby better than a book - books are for ideas and suggestions only.

Result - I liked the idea of a routine (helped me cope with pnd) but not the rigid ones in the book so I found one that suited ds and the rest of us.

Wait a few weeks and watch what your LO does, when they seem tired and when they seem hungry etc and then come up with something that falls around this if you still want to. Certainly the idea of doing the same things at the same time each night prior to going to bed did help with getting both dd and ds to go to bed easily.

Hi Starlight,

I've read the book several times and it STILL confuses me! Because they promote a 'flexible' routine, I find it too flexible! They never quite explain how you make the leap from getting your child on a 2.5-3.5 hours routine to PRESTO! they are sleeping through the night...

I can see why you might not make the link between the articles tiktok posted and the book itself. Apparently the book was based very heavily on Christian beliefs initially and its current form is heavily revised not to show that other than saying the parents' relationship is central (or something like that!). I completely know what you mean about it being waffly and tame though. Some of the ideas seem to be common sense but some of the bits I've read and re-read and still don't get what they are trying to say!

Like I said in my post earlier, I found certain chapters certainly very helpful like recognising the different sort of baby cries (I know it must sound like common sense to others but for a first-time mum who panics when the baby cries, it helps to read something in black and white!). And I like the idea of the flexible routine as it means I can actually do stuff instead of wondering when baby is going to wake up next to feed!

Ax

Yes, Starlight, I have read the book - and the sequel, and the religious versions of the works, too.

I don't like 'em.

Thanks for clarifying, conkey, but you can see why I wasn't too sure what you were expecting

ca3004, lets' get through this together. I've a 6 weeks old DS2, no routine and also beginning to panic. I started a basic Gina Ford routine after 9 weeks with DS1, but just don't knwo what to do with this one. I can't keep him awake - he just wants to sleep! I admit I'm not returning to work like you, but lets' keep each other's chins up, eh?

Recognising different cries is something I am very sceptical about. I do think it's good for parents to 'tune into' their babies' attempts at communicating, though, but not all babies cry in the same way, or with the same motivation...but I don't have any quarrel with parents who pick and choose what they want out of the different books on offer as long as they retain a healthy scepticism

Starlight, I just took the bits from it that I needed like the whole having a routine idea, getting them to fall asleep themselves instead of being fed to sleep. Just thought B.Whisp might be better as she's not as regimented as GF.

I've never understood the different cries because mine always seemed to be (a) feeding or (b) hysterical

ca3004: I am really worried about your work situation. It sounds shit. I am all in favour of women returning to work soon IF THEY WANT TO but you don't want to. And your family is pressurising you to set a BAD example to other women in the company. You have a NEW family now that you are responsible too in the form of your lovely fantastic baby. You won't get these early weeks back. Don't be pressurised into working if it isn't what is best for you and your baby.

Starlight, VERY lucky

My babies only have one cry: fire engine siren which they could launch from zero to 60 in 5 seconds flat.

And many a time, I could not even figure out what they wanted.

On the nurseries issue, I chose the nursery for my dcs precisely because they said they would follow dcs' needs, rather than keep to a strict one-size-fits-all routine.

And it is true. I sat in the room for many hours observing them. There is a rough structure for feeding and sleep, but outside of it, if a baby started crying, it was cuddles first, then milk bottles or soothed to sleep. Ds was cuddled to sleep. For a few weeks he would only sleep in arms so a carer carried him for that duration. After that, they found he would be lowered onto a cushion without waking, so they did that and he slept in a corner of the room. Then, later, he would allow himself to sleep in a separate sleeping room in a cot - so that is what they did. No sleep training at all.

It is possible for a nursery's Babyroom to be flexible. You need to ask when you visit and observe them during settling in.

Starlight, it is . It is a big chain one

On the routine thing, it might help to keep a diary of when your baby feeds, how long for, when he sleeps and how long etc. You may find that your baby sorts his own routine out without having to impose one on him. But 4 weeks is very little. I imagine it may be at least another month before you see a real routine emerging.

I started off thinking routine was a dirty word, but between two and three months we started introducing a few regular things which began to build up into a sort of routine which worked well for us. And that doesn't happen for everyone, but I do know quite a lot of people who've found a certain order begins to happen some time between 2-4 months.

Take it as it goes for at least another month.

As for setting a precedent, I understand what you're saying about hours, but the family business may find that while obviously your commitment is going to be greater, the others decide that if the company can't show some room to decide what suits them, they need to look for other jobs.

Good luck, whatever.