Hv says I've got to fatten ds3 up and should bf him less and give him cream cheese sandwiches!

[KITTYmaspudding]

Ok, here's the story, ds3 -child number 6- is nearly 9 months old. He has always been a skinny racing snake of a child. He was born @ 8lb 4oz, but skinny, looked like a skinned rabbit!!!!

He has always been a real boob boy, will 'snack' all day given the chance. He is also the most clingy and whiney child I have ever come across.

So today the HV weighs him and he has dropped from 75th at birth to 9th. This does not surprise me as he's not a greedy child. He has also not grown in height, but I know height measurements are very inaccurate for babies and I'm not too bothered.

Hv (who is very nice btw) says this is a point of concern and he needs to be up to the 50th centile. She says I should only be giving him three bf a day and that I should be giving him high calorie solids like cheese, butter etc.
Now having already gone through 5 children and their weaning habits my instinct is to say that ds3 is just a skinny active child and to leave things be.
Anyway how on earth do you force a child to eat? I've just tried giving him cheese and he spat it out. When he doesn't want to eat he won't.

My instinct is also to say that it'll be alright in the end, if he's meant to be skinny then he will be. Alright he's a grotbag but he's otherwise healthy and active.
His next sister up is just 2 and is very big and tall because she is. I haven't 'made her that way have I?
Anyway, your thoughts gratefully received.
Can I or indeed should do anything regarding this?

Oh My Goodness.
I wish HV would abolish those bloody centile charts.
You have had 5 children, weaned and fed them successfully, I would assume you'd know if your son was poorly.
People and babies come in different shapes and sizes, as long as he is otherwise healthy I would ignore it.

i remember going through the same thing with my dd1 - she fell off the bottom of the charts at some stage (having always been skinny) and the HV told me to give her more butter and chips!

As I was absolutely positive that dd1 was healthy, I ignored the HV and stopped taking her to get weighed. dd1 is now 7 and still a skinny thing (oh and my dd was the same - she loved to bf and could take or leave food).

does he have any solids yet or is it all bf?

i think you are probably right about him, as you say you have brought up 5 other perfectly healthy children

you cannot make a baby eat, but you can make each mouthful calorie dense and full of protein

DD was and frankly still is, a terrible eater... can still go days without eating a proper meal and she is 2.5,
things like hummous, soft cheese on rice cakes or toast , scrambled eggs with cream and butter are all good and filling and full of calories

breast milk is the ideal food for him, why cut down on that when he does not have a big appetite...milk is the main source of nutrition for the first year anyway

when DD started slipping down the centile, the HV told me not to bring her back for weighing for 3 months ! problem solved

50th centile is NOT a target. The centiles reflect the normal pattern of weight distribution for a population of healthy babies.

That means it is impossible for every baby to be on the 50th centile... some will be on the 3rd, some on the 93rd.

My dd was exactly the same weight at birth as your ds3. She dropped all the way down through the centiles to the 9th. The only time the HV was concerned was when dd's weight dropped almost off the charts after illness (the nurse at A&E insisted that I should contact the HV). As soon as dd got back to the 9th centile again the HV was more than happy with that. She certainly didn't think that I should be aiming for the 50th centile. That's just madness IMHO.

As you already know, children are all different shapes and sizes. My ds1 is tall and very thin. Ds2 is average height and very muscular. Dd is small and slim.

Kitty, your HV sounds very under-informed. She has given you advice that might be quite dangerous - restricting your son's breastfeeding could make his weight falter even more, and could actively distress both him and you. No amount of cheese and butter is going to make up for that.

If there is a real issue with his weight and growth, then unrestricted breastfeeding would be the sensible way to go, plus calorie-dense solids of the type he enjoys and will eat happily.

Ask her what she thinks of just bf ad lib, plus calorie dense solids - you will be able to tell from her response how far to trust her assessment.

I've just had the exact same thing from my hv, my ds5 is 7months and very tall and skinny, hv said I had to cut down on breastfeeds, and force him to eat 3 solid meals a day, to build him up, but he wouldnt eat from a spoon, so we're ignoring the hv and going with baby led weaning, and he loves it and still has as many bf as he wants, as I thought that was what demand feeding was!?

Someone wants you over here

Thanks gals, I thought a much

He still has no teeth and he won't be fed from a spoon.
I think the HV concern was that he snack fed so frequently that he wasn't getting enough hind milk, but I always thought that the more frequently he sucked the more my supply would be kept up, no?

Actually the more I think about it the more ridiculous it seems. He eats when he is hungry, if he has less calorie dense food then he eats MORE frequently etc. He is very fussy about he eats too, he is just a fussy skinny child.

I have had fat babies who have turned into skinny children, tiddly babies who've become very solid children. Who knows how he is going to turn out. As long as his skinniness doesn't affect his overall growth.

Kitty, I think that with 6 children under your belt it should be the HV asking YOU for advice, not the other way round! I would say totally trust your instincts about your child

Aha! Your hv talks about 'snacking' and it meaning he won't 'get to' the hindmilk....proves she does not know enough about breastfeeding to be in a position to say anything to you about this

tiktok, please explain to me. ds3 has a few slurps hourly, sometimes it might be just for 30 secs. He does it for reasuurance and comfort I know. Is he actually getting any milk of any value??
The HV said that his frequent snacking was supressing his appetite for solid food and that he couldn't get hungry enough because he was full on milk. Surely full is full.
If he's had enough calories from my milk to sate his hunger isn't that ok?
Hv said I should be feeding him no more than 3 times in 24 hours

Hindmilk and foremilk are not two different milks that the breast produces. The milk produced by the breast is the same. Relatively empty breasts will have relatively fattier milk; relatively full breasts will have relatively less fatty milk.

So in that respect I'd assume he is getting plenty of what he needs.

AFAIK, if you feed a baby whenever it wants, it gets the stuff it needs.

Only the first sentence was c&p'd btw.

your HV sounds misinformed and bonkers, an 8 month old needs more than 3 milk feeds over 24 hours , breast or bottle fed ! i don;t get the hurry to cut out milk and replace with food so quickly

Kitty... you know your ds3 and my ds are twins, don't you? Come and join our slow weight gain thread if you fancy it!!

Because they know more about feeding a baby solids than breastfeeding apparently lulumama.

It's easier to tell someone how to make their baby put weight on with fatty foods than to learn about breastfeeding.

Thanks for the c&p VS. How can you make a child eat? Surely babies and children if left to follow the natural instincts and given varied diet ,will eat when they are hungry. I hate this idea if having to fatten someone up

Kitty you said:

'ds3 has a few slurps hourly, sometimes it might be just for 30 secs. He does it for reasuurance and comfort I know. Is he actually getting any milk of any value??'

Yes. Older babies typically take less and less time over their breastfeeds. He can be trusted to take what he needs. A few slurps hourly is fine. It will add up to what he needs. My guess is your breasts never feel gi-normously full at any time (except the odd time when your ds might go longer). This is normal. The milk in your breasts will be relatively high in fat.

"The HV said that his frequent snacking was supressing his appetite for solid food and that he couldn't get hungry enough because he was full on milk. Surely full is full.
If he's had enough calories from my milk to sate his hunger isn't that ok?"

Your HV is mixing up the advice she might give to a formula feeding mother - it is simpy not applicable to bf.

"Hv said I should be feeding him no more than 3 times in 24 hours "

Ridiculous. Even adults have more drinks than that in 24 hours. And breastmilk is food and drink. To restrict his bf risks underfeeding him and distressing him.

She's not being helpful to you at all, as it sounds she doesn't know what she doesn't know!

Thanks tiktok

Kitty, as far as I am aware, you do not need to force anyone to eat unless they are suffering from malnutrition. Your ds isn't so just keep doing what you are doing.

I sometimes wonder about my DS, he is 3 but will go days without eating anything properly and I wonder where he can possibly be getting his energy from, then I remind myself that if you need food, your body does this amazing thing, it makes you feel hungry which in turn, makes you eat.

It's a wonderful thing this body of ours, pity so many people can't trust it.

You sound, understandbly worried, but if your health visitor hadnt mentioned anytihng, what would you think? You'd be happy with what is happening because you know your child is fine!

You're doing great. Don't worry.

The health visitor has to by law flag up any ' failure to thrive'babies ( they are by government definition a child that has significantly dropped from birth centile or is below the 40th centile at 6 months.)
Now you all know your babies and you can all choose what you want to do but the helath visitor would not be doing her job if she didn't register the weight.
After 6 months the breast milk is no longer sufficent to give full nutrition to an infant and must be supplemented with 'real' food. Now for mine who could not chew or swallow anything a tall lumpy it was just baby rice.
Constant nipping at the breast will suppress appetite so it worth perhaps trialing longer breaks and offering more solids.
Perhaps trying a feeding routine at this stage may help you or keeping a diary.
Try not to take the healthvisitors too seriously though at the end of the day its up to you its only their opininion.
Good luck.

tulip, you say "The health visitor has to by law flag up any ' failure to thrive'babies ( they are by government definition a child that has significantly dropped from birth centile or is below the 40th centile at 6 months.)"

I think you are wrong. There is no legal obligation to flag up failure to thrive - in fact the term is now 'faltering growth' . The HV has to be aware of child protection issues, and to react accordingly, but there is no law about growth. There is no government definiton of faltering growth either, though there is a clinical consensus in many areas which have local protocols (usually, it is below the 0.3 centile, but there are differences).

Being below the 40th centile at 6 mths is perfectly normal. In fact, 39 per cent of babies are below this line!!

The other info in your post is based on poor knowledge, sorry.

Erm, thanks for clarifying that tiktok, I was just looking up myself about when babies actually need to be weaned.

Babies can quite easily thrive for longer than 6 months on breastmilk alone. The breast mil changes to suit an elder baby, which is what a 6mo is, a baby.

It is only in countries such as ours that weaning from the six month age is common with many countries not weaning til between 2 and 4 years.

I thionk you're getting mixed up with formula tbh, when a baby of six months is being fed formula the milk does not change so it can be more beneficial to start weaning.

6 months is the reccommended earliest start, not by definition when babies need food.