Baby wont stop feeding and crying!

[PL2021]

I am at my wits end today and really looking for some advice and other people's experiences. Over the last few days baby just will not settle at all! She is on EBM via bottle, is taking 130ml per feeding and still seeming to want more afterwards! She just screams until we give her more. We have tried to pacify her with a dummy and winding her incase it is wind but nothing will settle her apart from more food. However she will then end up bringing mouthfuls of it back up (not huge vomits but mouthfuls of sick with hiccups/burps)

I have wondered whether it is reflux and I have spoken to a midwife, a health visitor and a breastfeeding support line. 2 of which have said she just sounds like she is hungry and probably going through a growth spurt and give her bigger bottles and see if that helps settle her (which it doesn't seem to be). The other 1 said feed her less more often but that's impossible as she'll just scream the house down non stop.
She tends to cough and choke during her bottles sometimes and sometimes afterwards also.

I am wondering now whether my breast milk just isn't satisfying her needs and considering switching to formula?

I cant stop crying because it's upsetting me seeing her so unsettled and upset all of the time, and not knowing why.. whether it is hunger or pain. We have considered trying infacol or colief incase her problem is wind/bottom wind, but the midwife said to avoid them as they can make her constipated and cause more problems.

I am not even getting time to eat! I had to skip dinner last night and didn't get chance to eat until 3pm today when she finally settled for an hour but is now up and crying again. I'm very sleep deprived as I cant even nap in the day when she does because she just doesnt!

Has anyone else had a similar situation and have some advice for me please?

I dont want to make the situation worse by trying formula, but I also am going insane trying to figure out what she needs/wants

@PL2021

If it is overtired, is it worth when she eventually does go off to sleep, just leave her until she wakes herself? Because if she gets to 4 hours I then wake her for another feed as instructed by midwives etc... but maybe if she is tired from all of this feeding through the day, I should let her get her sleep in when she does go off no matter what time of the day it is?

If she's 3+ weeks old and gaining normally, I'd let her sleep as long as she naturally sleeps, yes. The need for waking is in the first few weeks when you risk their blood sugar dipping so they don't naturally wake to feed, which makes them weaker and sleepier, onset vicious cycle. But by 3 weeks if baby is otherwise alert and has gained well I'd let them go longer.

My rule was to never wake a sleeping baby. Predicated with not losing weight blah blah.

Yes she is over 3 weeks now and is gaining weight really well. She actually gained 8 ounces in 4 days this week! So I will let her sleep as long as she wants too when she does go off. My mum has arrived and done her feed this time and believe it or not she's settled off to sleep straight away! Nanny obviously has a magic touch

At 3 weeks my DDs both just slept, cried and fed. Nothing in between and the sleep was few and far between. For DD2 I had a sling , it was a total life saver.

Keep going OP I remember the early weeks are very very hard.

If you were breast feeding there could be days when she was feeding for 12 hours a day. I'm not convinced that pumping is going to provide enough milk, and it must be so time consuming.. how long does it take to pump enough for a bottle? what is the baby doing while you are pumping? Are you sure it makes your life easier?
As other people have said, you can't directly compare breastmilk with formula, and most breast fed babies don't go anything like 3-4 hour between feeds at that age, unless they are asleep. And even then, you'd be advised to wake them after 4 hours or so. I suspect that bottle feeding a baby with breast milk could be much harder on you than breast feeding.

I definitely wouldn't wake her. It sounds like it could be colic. You mentioned seeing if formula helped. There's no harm In trying her on a 4oz bottle and seeing what happens it won't hurt her I hope she gets better soon it will in time everything is a phase that settles eventually.

I am pumping around 140ml in 10 minutes minutes it doesn't take me too long to pump enough for a feed. I have a huge stock in the freezer as in the first couple of weeks when she wasn't taking much I had loads spare. Whilst I pump she is with my partner when he is home, otherwise I have to wait until she is asleep to do it

I am so worried about trying formula incase it upsets her tummy or makes her more windy and causes even more problems

You really don't need to use formula op. You have so much of your own to use.
I am a midwife of 26 years and mother of 4. At 3+ weeks old you DO NOT need to be waking her if she's asleep. . Give yourself a break
Feed her every feed until she is full. If she's screaming at the end of the bottle, give her more until she is satisfied. Possetting is normal. Consider it like her overflow pipe. She's drunk a bit too much so she'll be a bit sick. Totally harmless and no reason feed her less.
Good luck. You sound really stressed and worried. Just remember, this time will pass....

Good luck 🍀

@lupinlass thank you so much for your response. Coming from a midwife it makes me feel much better. It has been stressing me so much because I just don't want to do the wrong thing. So many people are suggesting so many different things. We feel like we can't even leave the house at the moment because we don't know how much EBM to take with us. I can take my pump to top up if needed but I'm concerned that I then can't get it washed whilst out and about ready to use again. I feel like I just need to do something a bit more normal and get some fresh air to stop me from going insane!

First off, you're not a bad mummy!
My DD is 3 months now and whilst she is different to your daughter in that she is EBF, she has never gone longer than 2 hours between feeds during the day. Sometimes she'll do nearly 2 hours and other times it's as little as half an hour, I just feed on demand to be honest.

With the sleeping I didn't even know the waking them up to feed was a thing so I haven't ever woken her up since she was born, definitely don't wake her if she's putting on weight!

Also, unfortunately I think some babies don't need as much sleep as others, mine certainly doesn't and the whole wake windows thing hasn't worked for her yet, if I try to get her to sleep following these rather than her sleepy cues she just gets grumpy and screams.

I've heard people have good results from cranio-osteopaths with fussy babies, that might be worth a try?

I'm glad it helped. I think seeing as you have so much ebm, when you go out, just take more than you think you need.
My first was a v hungry baby and I couldn't believe how much he needed but he did and denying it him made him scream!
There are no rights or wrongs when it comes to this. She's YOUR baby. You know her best and no two babies are the same

So we managed to get a bit more sleep last night! She had her last feed at 10pm, cried for more afterwards (as expected) so we topped her up. Then she seemed to settle a bit but was still very whingy, so we tried burping her some more and swaddling her/rocking her to sleep incase she was just getting overtired. She started to nod off but would keep waking up again with a whingy cry but not a scream like she was still hungry. She then (after 3 hours) did a big poo and seemed to settle down after that! We changed her and give her a cuddle and she was out like a light! It was almost as though she needed to get her poop out before she would rest to go to sleep?? Maybe it is done bottom wind she is struggling with??

She then slept for 3 hours after that which took her to 6 hours after her feed! Which is when I started to panic that it was too long without a feed! She then started stirring so we got her out of bed ready to give her a feed, but she went back to sleep with her dummy! Would she have gone back to sleep if she was actually hungry? After 20 more minutes I took her dummy off her and tickled her lip with my finger and she did then start routing for her feed so I think she was hungry? So we have her a bottle which she drained and then after a few whinges went back to sleep for another 3 hours

Sorry for the essays, as you can tell I'm a worrier and an overthinker!

Sounds fine. Just keep going with her rhythm, and if she goes long stretches, count your lucky stars and don't expect it to last, sorry

There's no need fo formula breast milk has everything she needs.

Some ideas:
Are you practising paced bottle feeding? Are you letting her sleep on your chest as you sit upright with skin to skin? Are you practising the 5 Ss of soothing a newborn?

Breastfeeding is about more than hunger. It is called nursing because they suckle for pain relief, thirst, boredom, to stimulate milk production for tomorrow and the big one in the fourth trimester - comfort and security. You can help your baby feel safe and comforted with some ideas above including using the sling and swaddling, but as much contact time on your chest as you can take will really help.

Once they've regained birth weight they don't need waking to feed.

Yes we are trying the 5 S's to sooth her and we have also been practising the paced bottle feeding. The only thing that confuses me with it is when we pull the bottle downwards to give her that breather, isn't it bad for her to be sucking on an empty teat? I feel like that will give her more wind? In the past I've always thought having no milk in the teat is bad!

Infacol or colief shouldn’t cause constipation. They might not do anything else either though, but that’s not a reason not to try them.

I don’t really have any specific advice but just to say you sound like you’re doing very well, unfortunately the first few weeks can just be very tough and it doesn’t mean you’re doing anything wrong! You must make sure you eat (no excuses, get some easy finger food in the fridge, takeaways whatever!) otherwise you’ll wear yourself out and you need to keep yourself healthy too. Don’t tell yourself off, this raising a baby lark isn’t easy and you sound like you’re doing a great job as you are

Thank you everyone for your advice and help, and thank you @SunnyLeaf for the words of encouragement

No if you have MAM anti colic then the empty teat is exactly what baby needs to regulate feeds.

Sunnyleaf is right. We should be told to expect to not move from the sofa for six weeks for a start!

How's it going OP?

I remember after DD1 was born, and we were completely out of our depth as all new parents are. The health visitor came for one of her visits, and we were explaining how she wouldn't sleep on her own, only on us, we only had 2 hours of sleep and so on and so forth, explaining as if "this cannot be normal!!! Our baby is broken!!" And this poor HV just looked and nodded as if to say "yup!". Looking back it was all totally normal, but at the time I just thought we had broken the baby keep going OP. Day by day, hour by hour if you need to. Eat chocolate. It helps.

@headinthecloudsnow Today has actually been a little bit better than the last couple of days! She seems to be settling a little better after her feeds at the moment with less constant screaming, so maybe it was a bit of a growth spurt after all?! We actually managed to get out and about a little bit today for some walks with a quieter, happier baby which was lovely!

Aww we have literally said the exact same words "have we broken our baby" numerous times thinking we must be doing something wrong! I've definitely been getting my fill of chocolate and sweets to keep myself sane haha!

You're not doing anything wrong. No one prepares you for the first few weeks and months. It's like being hit by a bus. Lack of sleep just makes everything harder as well. It sounds like you and baby's dad are a good team.

@headinthecloudsnow

How's it going OP?

I remember after DD1 was born, and we were completely out of our depth as all new parents are. The health visitor came for one of her visits, and we were explaining how she wouldn't sleep on her own, only on us, we only had 2 hours of sleep and so on and so forth, explaining as if "this cannot be normal!!! Our baby is broken!!" And this poor HV just looked and nodded as if to say "yup!". Looking back it was all totally normal, but at the time I just thought we had broken the baby keep going OP. Day by day, hour by hour if you need to. Eat chocolate. It helps.

and also [shudder], because oh my lord, so much of this. I remember being told by my NCT teacher that a breastfed baby feeds every two hours round the clock, and I nodded my head and smiled while thinking that that was obviously a worst-case scenario, because human life couldn't possibly be sustained in those circumstances. Hahahaha!!!! The reality of my super clingy, round the clock feeding, only slept on me if he slept at all and cried for no reason I could figure out baby was one hell of a shock. I searched obsessively for the reason why he was "like this", and in hindsight, he was just a perfectly normal newborn, albeit a bit more high maintenance than some.

Your baby is normal, you're doing fine, and this bit really is over very, very quickly. Trust us.

Sounds like you’re doing great and things are improving. Just to echo previous posters, you really don’t need to wake her now she’s past 3 weeks and is gaining weight steadily. If she gets more sleep she’ll be far more settled. And definitely take a deep breath and try to get out even for just a short walk, will be so good for your mental health. Good luck!

 @stalkersaga yes!

One evening my DH cooked dinner (!) while I fed the baby upstairs. Blissfully thinking I'll pop her down in her crib and go down for a lovely dinner to watch TV.

No way.

I eventually trudged downstairs about 2am and the dinner was shrivelled stone cold on the side. I don't think I had a hot dinner for months after that.

Sorry to hijack your thread OP.