I hate myself

[thelady]

Someone needs to reassure me, please.

I can't give up on breastfeeding, even though pumping doesn't work, and I've not been able to get anything out for days I keep wanting to try to latch dd on. She's forgotten how, due to being bottle fed for more than 2 of her 3 weeks.

Dh has taken her and is feeding her now as I'm going to probably do something stupid. Is it worth my keeping trying, or have I really gone crazy - think I probably have?

i agree wit silkcushion there is so much pressure to breast feed that when it doesn't work you feel like the worst mother in the world. talk to the people tomorrow and do what is best for you and your baby and not what you think is best

Hi thelady,I was on your antenatal thread (still not popped!)and have been following your threads.. I just wanted to offer you a shoulder and to say how sorry I am that its been so tough, and how it will get better...

I know that you've been through so much already and you are so strong to keep it all together through this. Please listen to the advice of others regarding picking up bfeeding again. You don't have to do what makes you miserable, and you CAN do it. AND its totally normal to feel despondant, wretched and upset - you've just had a baby! I remember crying as much as dd whilst trying to latch her on to my cracked, bleeding nipples and expressed completely from one side for a week. You've got a crap hv and no immediate b/feeding support as well, which doesn't help... I know your problems are tough but you are tougher - you can do this.

how did it let you down before, thelady?

OK, still here - DH got in a fankle with the nappy and a baby who vomits when laid down to change (fun fun fun).

I promise I won't do anything precipitate. It's hard because I don't know anyone who ff their baby - all my family were bf and those of my friends who have babies have all bf too. They're all in South Africa though.

I could never express, and I breastfed two children. Really, I got nothing with a pump at all. I am not an expert at all. But don't give up on something you want to do before you have spoken to people who are. Now get some sleep!

and now go to bed and get some sleep if your baby is sleeping, lie with hre, and love her. it will be better tomorrow, and if it isn't we're here, waiting to know how you get on x

the lady - I think you will find that your baby is very able to suck more milk than you are able to express.

What you manage to express doesnt necessarily reflect what the baby manages to get.

Can you have a bath? Lots of skin to skin contact in the bath. Laying in bed together, again more skin to skin.

You havent failed at all. Please dont think that.

well, lizzer, for some of us it actually may not be possible to exclusively bf, just the physiology may not be right so mix feeding may be something to aim for. thelady, have you asked about domperidone? what about the feeding every three hours etc? fenugreek, guinness, porridge? ooooh, i took them all...

don't give up completely! I am still going with it part time after a bad start like you and we are 11 weeks now. It would be full time except fo the thrush which is so painful.

can you try having a feed with her just as she is waking and in a better mood? don't wait until crying with hunger. also you can try giving a little bottle to calm and then try the breast again.

I hate pumping as well and can only get a small amount out but its worth it for the stimulation.

what bottles are you using? my DS has no trouble switching between tommee tippee closer to nature and breast. I did find his latch improved a great deal as he grew.

i would have to so don't give up just yet. keep practicing at every feed if you can.

Where to start, Aitch? I've been dealing with a body that doesn't function as advertised for most of my life. DD was a wonderful surprise, as we'd been through tests etc. after 8 years of trying and told that we couldn't have kids. I don't have anything 'wrong' with me, just a permanently limited energy budget, a real struggle to keep my weight/fitness levels (need to do 1h plus exercise every day for it to work) etc. etc.

I will phone someone tomorrow. Need to go and take over from DH as he's been shouldering the burden of business completely and is shattered.

no the lady it's almost certain there is not nothing there but I can see how it seems and feels like that. Expressing is really really bad sometimes at getting milk out compared to a really good babysuck. Neither you nor your baby were helped with that by the professionals early on. You can be now. BTW drops are good and when you're feeling less miserable you'll be able to see that your body has not let you down again but is producing milk, actually. Read that again - your body is producing milk.

I'm wondering if this is connected to the CS and lots of emotional stuff goin g on there about birth... I had an emergency CS with my first 2 and felt I MUST BF for that reason, and when I was close to throwing in the towel it was awful. Is this what you mean by your body letting you down AGAIN? I think you'd really benefit from talking to one of the BF counsellors about this perhaps also or call your hospital and ask if they have a birth trauma service. It's not uncommon for lingering emotional stuff after a difficult birth, and it can get in the way of other things. If you want to talk off list about it, let me have your email and I'll contact you direct. I have been through it and though I didn't have such shocking postnatal BF care as you, I did struggle to establish feeding for 13 weeks first time round...

silk: you haven't made it worse!

Yeah I completely agree Aitch, that's another solution worth thinking about thelady. I hope you can get some sleep and read back through all this in the morning

thelady - it's understandable to feel bereft and angry when something you really wanted and longed to do does not work out. It's ok to be disappointed and to grieve - but it makes no sense to blame yourself or your body...both you and your body have worked amazingly hard to make things go right.

The early days - when the people whose job it was to check bf was going well for you failed to do their job until your baby was actually ill - can set the scene for later on....not necessarily in an irrevocable way, as some people manage to overcome the physical challenge that this bad start creates, but some women have a much harder time, and only you can guage what the balance is for you, to continue trying or to put it behind you. If you put it behind you, then part of this will be reassessing what went on, and disengaging feelings of blame and lack of self worth. None of this is to say 'it doesn't really matter' about the feeding. Clearly, to you it is very real and hurtful. But directing your anger outwards, maybe even writing a letter to the maternity unit, may help a bit.

I agree with Itsonlyawinterstellus - it is very hard to get anything by pumping in the first few weeks. It was only in the 3 or 4th month I got anything worth noting from pumping and it was always very hard work.

Lack of milk from pumping does not mean there is nothing there. This can be sorted out.

Please don't hate yourself - you are giving this your best shot and no matter what the outcome you have really tried. That is nothing to be ashamed of. I agree with Silkcushion, there comes a point when trying to do b/f does more harm than good to you and there is no dishonour in giving formula.

That said, you will get excellent advice from people here. It is not the end yet. Listen to what people have to say here but remember that it is the night and everything seems worse at night. Try again in the morning with as much help as you can muster and see how you go.

I wish you the very best of luck.

I don't know if this will be at all helpful, but I found it easier to express if my baby was there or I had a photo of her.

Sounds like a good idea to keep the pumping going, just in case.

But please don't beat yourself up if it doesn't work, you've obviously been through a lot, and as another mnter said, you're a brilliant mum for trying all this stuff.

[hugs]

what about phoning the queen mum's in glasgow? they have a really shit hot specialist breastfeeding unit, the only onw in scotland. tel no is 0141 201 0550, ask for the bfing unit. now i KNOW the last sodding thing you want to do is phone another arsehole bfing person so maybe ask dh to do it for you. and then hopefully they can suggest something or someone nearer. i think a bath sounds like a lovely idea. and again i HEAR YA on the evil stupid body thing, i had two ectopic pregnancies before dd and i'd be embarrassed to tell you some of the thougths that went through my head when dd wouldn't co-operate with bfing... all sorts of mad stuff. it does get better, but wow, when your'e in the middle of it and everyone's telling you that you're 'stupid' or whatever for feeling the way you do... and that you can try harder, try less hard, phone this person, phone another, well, it's all so much noise isn't it?
sorry you're having a bad time, it is shite. i mix fed dd for four and a half months (see how even now i need to say that all-important half? ) and i don't even think of myself as a bfer really. but i saw a film of myself where i was feeding her and i burst out crying, i was so proud i had tried and tried to the best of my ability. but i did have to grieve that my ability wasn't really very good at all...

do you think dh might phone them for you tomorrow? and btw, an hour a day exercising? that could slide...

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but for me it was the very worst thing to give her a bit of formula and then try the breast.
It is giving them a nice easy way and then saying, oh no you can't have that, try it this hard way. they will shout for the bottle.
Skin to skin is the best, isn't it?
A day or so in bed where she gets free reign to your boobs to drink when she is hungry, she will soon remember.
I am sure i have read that advice in many places.
Good luck to you, and don't worry about the pumping, I was the same. Couldn't get a thing until at least 4 months. Even then I could only ever express at 4 am
I think it was a mental thing, at other times of the day, I just wasn't in the right frame of mind for the milk to flow.

it's not a question of wrong, is it, just what works for each of us.

thelady, I'm completely rubbish at expressing, but managed to bf my 2 long term (after a very, very hard start with dd1). So I think it's important not to draw too many conclusions about the expressing.

Maybe you're just a fellow member of the Useless Expressers Club - we get fewer nights out than those dairy cows who can express pints but otherwise it doesn't matter much.

You know, even a little bit of breastmilk has loads of goodies in it, so even if you were to stop right now, your dd has already benefited from your hard work. Do you think it would help to focus on the benefits that are 'in the bag', rather than worrying about possible missed benefit in the future? I think that's what I'd aim to do in your shoes.

With the latching: I had terrible problems getting this right with dd1. The worst times were when she was hungry - she would panic and flail about and it was horrible. Sometimes I would just let her latch on any old how (toe curlingly painful), drink a bit and calm down, then try doing it properly.

You might like to try a less painful version of this! ie start her off with a bottle so she has something in her tummy, then latch her on.

I'm not a bf expert so am giving this advice a bit cautiously, but it worked for me.

Wishing you all the best.

Aargh, just read thread and I see Aitch has already made this suggestion! Oh well, will send anyway!

Listen to aitch

and expressing is shit sometimes

I had boobs that would turn a bed into a swamp overnight, but produce ... oh... 20 mils for a pump

You sound so tired and worn out. Please sleep and, in the morning, look at this again. You sound determined, but completely knackered. If you can eliminate some of the knackeredness, you'll find it easier to focus your determination where you want it to go. And it will be daylight!

You clearly have a fierce drive and will. That is amazing and will help to take you wherever you decide to go. I believe you may be able to turn this around, and I will be cheering you on!

Good luck.

motilium is available over the counter at the chemist. i am currently using it to build up supply. its working well as i can feel it making my breasts full.

i too thought i was making no milk but tryed expressing and got a few drops so was satisfied with that. currently i give DS 20 mins or however long before he starts to get frustrated on each breast and then top up with a bottle. at night he gets a few of hours of exclusive BF and enjoys this as he sleeps in between latching on and off.

i would say keep trying it as well as toping up with formula. even a small amount of breast milk is beneficial and you probably are still making some.

Oh Thelady,this thread brings tears to my eyes as does Aitch's account of watching a film of herself breastfeeding.
it's so odd how our bodies are stretched to the limit at a time when we are so vulnerable isn't it? Talk aobut bad bloody timing. I am in good shape at present and feel positively Amazonian. I reckon I could deal with feeding a trio of baby elephants.

But two or three weeks after having a baby? Lordy,it was all I could do to clean my teeth.

Hope you have gained some perspective and strength today.