FTM - stressed, upset and totally lost

[thismotherhoodthing]

Well done to anyone who reaches the end of this! I'm basically stressed anxious upset and looking for words of encouragement or friendly advice. I'm a FTM and DD is 6 days old. My birth and post birth experience is a bit of a blur and DD wouldn't latch on in the hours following birth. We chose to stay in the birthing centre to try and get feeding established rather than going home.

However I quickly realised that I thought there would be more specialist support available than there was and other than being shown a few positions we were mostly left in a room on our own to persevere and told it would happen soon. One midwife did try to help her latch but was basically forcing her onto my breast and DD got incredibly agitated and from then on wouldn't let me put her anywhere near my breast.

After 3 days we came home with an instruction to keep trying her at the breast but also to pump every 3 hours and give her EBM, topped up with formula if needed. I've been doing this and absolutely hating it/feeling stressed/like a failure every time DD rejected my boobs and cried hysterically. Today I paid for a private IBCLC to visit. She said DD has a mild tongue tie/Frenulum but to "watch and see" what needed to be done. As it wasn't too bad. She gave me nipple shields to try and DD latched straight away. So I've been using these today however the pain is so bad and my breasts are feeling so full all the time and don't seem to empty. The shields are full of milk when she stops feeding so she must be getting something but my boobs feel like rocks, Nipples are red raw and swollen and I'm worried about getting mastitis. I've tried expressing but also worried about over stimulating and making it worse. Tonight I've given her a bottle of EBM a lot of which she spat up and she's also breastfed through the nipple shields. Now I feel like I have no idea how much milk she’s getting and no idea what I’m doing.

Has anyone used nipple shields to BF? I keep thinking surely she is now only sucking on my nipple rather than taking the Areola into her mouth like shes meant to?

I just want to enjoy these first days with my beautiful daughter but I feel like i can't

The first few weeks of establishing breastfeeding are really, really hard for most women I’ve spoken with. I’m really sorry you haven’t been well supported. A couple of things that might help:

• I was told if it’s painful it’s wrong, but all the women I know who bf said it hurt for at least a few weeks. The nipple has to basically toughen up, it’s hard!
• use nipple shields if they help, you can wean off of them later - a friend did this and she’s stuck with bf and her baby is nearly 2 now!
• it’s gets easier for them to take a bigger mouthful as they get bigger, difficult for newborns to fit loads in to start
• slather your nipples in the purple tube of lanolin and let the air get to them if possible
• can you have some very low-key chilled days on the sofa / bed where you don’t need fo focus on anything but establishing breastfeeding?

Don’t be scared to reach out for more help! We’re not meant to do this all alone x

You're doing amazing!!! My lo is 9 weeks now and it took about 7 weeks for feeding to be completely pain free.

Also, pumping is really advised against in the first 6 weeks as it can cause over supply. I would just feed babe at the breast whenever she wants (which will be A LOT) and trust your body is giving her what she needs. Your breast milk won't be regulated until about 5 or 6 weeks so as long as she's putting on weight then know your boobs are doing what they need to do xxx

@moregarlic thanks,that's really kind. I'm using nipple shields as it's the only way she will latch on. I think my nipples are a bit too flat and my breasts are too full for her tiny mouth so she seems to need the shields. It's good to know I might be able to wean her off them though!

I will slather the lanolin on! X

@Sheisfee thank you I was pumping to keep my supply up as she wouldn't latch and hospital told me to-do you think I should stop now?

@thismotherhoodthing yeah, I would just feed her at the breast as you don't want to end up with an oversupply! Xx

I think it sounds like you should stop pumping, your supply sounds good to ke if your breasts are full to the point of hurting. You can hand express a little to ease engorgement without over stimulating so that may be worth doing. My DC needed a bit of expressed BM before latching on at first as he was so hangry he couldn't concentrate. With regards to the nipple shields, are they they right size for you? Double check as that can help. Use lanolin on your nipples after every feed and before too, if you're using nipple shields. Day 6 is peak soreness for nipples and it will get better, honestly! Good luck

Congrats on your baby.

Someone said to me that it's a bit like new shoes when you start breastfeeding. You have to wear your nipples in and they will be sore and raw until they harden up. Nipple cream is your best friend. Use it loads and things will get better soon.

A Haakaa style pump can help with engorgement in the early days without over stimulating things.

One thing that really helped me - and might sound nuts, was to talk baby through it calmly. I'd star the feed by saying very calmly;

'Now baby, let's do this right, tummy to mummy, nipple to nose and big mouth ... that's it'

Or if they didn't I'd stop and saying again with something like;

"You know how to do this, big mouth now please."

It's sounds stupid but the calming tone helped me and reminded me about the tummy to mummy bit.

@Twizbe I used to do a similar thing and say 'big mouth' to my LO, in my head it helped! I would agree your supply sounds good so maybe just hand express a little before a feed so your breast isn't too hard for baby. Also agree that it does hurt at least for a little while whilst your nipples toughen up. I think it took till about 5/6 weeks until I stopped feeling anything. Lanolin all day everyday and try and feed often.

I really feel for you, the first few weeks are so difficult! It does get better I promise you!!

I used nipple shields which made a huge difference to me and after a while I was able to ditch them and bf normally until DS was 2.

If your nipple is cracked rather than just sore you may need a moist would dressing such as jelonet or hydrogel from a pharmacy. Otherwise try some Lansinoh.

Congratulations on your baby and well done for breast feeding so far! I pumped after every feed, topped up with EBM and used nipple shields (for flat nipples). It was utterly exhausting and the pumping felt quite lonely as I would have rather been spending time with DD (or sleeping!).

I pumped and topped up for the first ten days until DD regained her birth weight and was feeding better. I used nipple shields for another week or so after that. DD got much better at latching on her own as she got bigger and stronger. I found the shields annoying and messy, but they were a useful tool that was only needed for a few weeks. DD has been BF for nearly 9 months now.

I agree with a previous poster that you need to be wary about pumping at this stage. My supply went a bit crazy and I was pumping more milk than DD could drink. The midwife said my body thought I was feeding twins and I was very sore and engorged. As your DD gets better at feeding, consider reducing/stopping the pumping when you can.

Ask for help, lots! It’s ok to call for advice every single day if you need it - your midwife or the various breastfeeding helplines. This is important and you matter.

Best of luck!

Congratulations on your baby. You are doing so so well. It is so tough to start with and I completely sympathise with you. You are absolutely NOT a failure.

I had a traumatic birth and very quickly had bad nipple damage due to 100% tongue tie and the constant newborn feeding and was very close to giving up as it all felt too much at the time. Nipple shields completely saved bf for us. IMO they are a wonderful tool if needed and more women should know about them as an option. It was still painful with them to start with as the damage was already done but they took the edge off enough to allow me to feed and for them to slowly heal. Lanisoh was great and also hydrogel breast discs were absolutely amazing and soothing.

My LO actually quickly developed a preference for them and I fed using shields for about 5 months. I had been told in the hospital to wean him off them after a week or so but I wasn't able to partly because it was still so painful without them and also LO liked them more! At the time this caused me immense worry but I got some really good professional support who quickly reassured me that if they were working for me then there was absolutely no harm in using them. Mine were often filled with milk at the end of a feed and that is a good sign. So as long as baby is gaining weight, nappy output is good, baby is feeding well with them then I would take nipple shields off your list of worries and just go with it. Chances are you'll be able to wean off them much quicker once you have healed but what I'm trying to say is don't feel guilty or bad if you aren't able to, as long as they are still working for you. Yes I definitely agree they are more of a faff, a bit more messy and one more thing to remember when you go out but for me it was an easy choice between shields or stopping bf. I use the Medela ones which are really good. They do come in different sizes so just check that you have the right ones, most use the medium I believe but there can be some variation. I ended up with a few sets to make it easier with sterilising and going out with them.

The latch with a shield is naturally going to be different than with the breast, a small amount of the breast should be drawn into the shield but it won't look as deep as latch as with just the breast.

My LO is nearly 7 months old and 90% of his feeds are now without the shields. It has been a gradual process but he was happy to wean off them in his own time.

Sorry, not much advice with the pumping side of things but just wanted to give you my experience of using shields to hopefully reassure you.

You've done exactly the right thing in getting professional help who can hopefully support you through these first few weeks but you're doing fantastically well. Good luck!

Thanks for the helpful replies this has definitely made me feel a lot better. I had an appointment at the feeding clinic yesterday and they were happy that she is latching on ok with the shields however they think I have reynauds of the nipple and one of my nipples is particularly mangled and sore so I've to call them today if it doesn't look any better (it doesn't). I was also told not to put lansinoh on them and instead to try and get the air to them at this stage

I'll be honest I don't know how long I can keep trying for as I just really want to enjoy DD but I feel chained to the house and scared to go out or have visitors in case I need to feed. I find myself dreading each feed which just doesn't seem right.

@Boa33 it's good to know you fed happily with shields for so long. My baby tries to pull them off so it's a good five min struggle before I can get her to latch on

@MoreThanRubies I'm hoping I won't need to use them for more than a couple of weeks, I don't think it's a long term option for me particularly with the reynauds which seems to be caused by them

@Twizbe I have a Hakka and I love it, I get quite a bit from it. I definitely talk to her in a calming voice, she just gets so worked up and her little fists get in the way.

I used nipple shields pretty much the whole time for 6 months of feeding each of my 3. I had avent ones and positioned them at a bit of an angle so there was a bit of skin contact with babys bottom lip (if that makes sense!). I had several sets so I had clean ones ready in a little box whenever needed. And I took them everywhere! It's a bit of a faff but it can be done and I always had lots of milk.

I found bf very challenging and although lansinoh helped a bit I had frequent cracks and bleeding and mastitis a few times. I used to give myself a goal of continuing for a week at a time. It did get a little easier but I remember that feeling of dreading feeds!

Also if the shield is a bit wet it will stick on better.

Keep going!
Keep going to the feeding clinic until you are happy
It is so tough to start with and I found it v painful as my nips got chapped in first 48h and took forever to heal
Sometimes if I was engorged, hand expressing half a teaspoon helped baby latch when she was tiny.
Paracetamol and ibuprofen helped
But after 1 month it was so much easier to be able to bf on demand than have to deal with bottles

Albeit there were sometimes days when I wished baby would take a bottle!

Good luck.

I have fairly flat nipples too and my first really struggled to latch and feed comfortably and certainly wasn’t going to do the whole ‘calmly open mouth and take the areola in…’ thing.

As he grew I found the best strategy for me (apart from shields which def helped when he was tiny) was basically to squeeze flat the areola and the bit behind it and shove it quite forcefully into his open mouth, as far as it would go.. Almost like posting a letter into a letterbox if you see what I mean? Definitely not elegant or particularly gentle but it got the job done and he was able to move the milk a lot more efficiently.

Getting flatter nipples back as far as they need to go can be really tricky.

@thismotherhoodthing
That sounds so tough, I really feel for you. The Reynauds definitely won't be helping and I completely understand how you feel dreading each feed because of the pain and having to fiddle with shields out in public and with visitors etc.

At the end of the day, you need to do what you feel is best for you and your little one. You've given her a brilliant start already by bf for this long. It sounds like you have sought out a lot of support which is brilliant and I'm sure there are ways of continuing with bf or combi feeding IF you feel you want to. It is often really really tough at first and I don't think anyone really explains how tough it can be if it doesn't come naturally straight away. Of course, if you decide you want to stop then that is an equally valid choice. The main thing is that you have the support that you need and remember that it is such early days. I wish you the best of luck.

I have another appointment at the feeding clinic tomorrow (Friday) to check out the trauma in one nipple and to check for mastitis. I've also ordered some of the silverette breast cups online as I've heard good things about them easing nipple pain and trauma. Not sure if anyone has tried!?

@fruitpastille I'm giving myself a goal of a week at a time as well and just seeing how I go.

@Feetupteashot I have another appointment at feeding clinic tomorrow to check for mastitis. Im going to try and use their support as much as I can- I didn't have the best experience with the midwives in the birthing centre I was in post labour so im hoping the feeding clinic will a lot better

@JassyRadlett that does make sense. It sounds pretty painful from your description! But i feel like everything about breastfeeding is just painful!

@Boa33 you're right. I knew it might not be straight forward but not sure I realised how difficult and emotionally testing it could be!

I know what you mean about everything feeling dominated by feeding and not being able to enjoy her. It definitely takes 6 weeks to establish and unfortunately especially for FTM (or first time breast feeders even if it’s not your first child) a lot of those first 6 weeks can feel like it’s dominated by feeding. HOWEVER… once you’ve cracked it it’s the easiest thing in the world. It saves SO much work and faff and money! I mix fed my eldest and when ever we went out I had to make sure we had clean bottles and the right amount of powder and the water etc and on more than one occasion I came home early from a day out because I didn’t have enough clean bottles for her as I had made up a feed which she had about an ounce of and then rejected the rest so I had to Chuck it but then her next feed needed to be earlier if that makes sense. She was a snacker and it was so frustrating and wasteful as I never knew how much she’d want and we must have thrown away so much money in unfinished formula. Whereas with my second I didn’t even have to think about feeding, you always have your boobs with you! And if I thought she might be hungry I can offer boob and she either takes or leaves it and it’s no big deal.

So basically I know it seems like the easier thing to just stop BF now, in the long run it does save you a whole lot of time and effort. Well done you are doing so very well!

Honestly I ended up going back and getting TT corrected and it changed everything for the better. Pumping will increase your supply and keep your options open though so it's a good time to do. Putting baby to breast each feed is great, but I would suggest giving a bit of milk first so baby isn't starving and frustrated when you do. If baby starts to cry stop straight away. An hysterical baby cannot feed even without TT.

You'll get there! The NCT breastfeeding helpline and Kelly Mom website are great.

100% get the tt checked privately. The nhs infant feeding team said my sons was mild and didn't need cut. It did and made a world of difference. The infant feeding nurse told me they had been advised to provide less tt divisions and the fact that my son was drinking from a bottle (top ups occasionally as couldn't latch) automatically excluded us. A private tongue tie specialist will do an assessment and score and only cut if necessary. It's not too expensive, £150-200 ish and you will save that not having to buy formula in no time. I remember trying to get through week by week and setting mini goals. Got the tongue tie cut at 8 weeks and never really thought about it again. Except now that I'm trying to stop bf....that's a whole new drama! Hang in there

I went back to the breastfeeding clinic today as half of both my nipples are hanging off and they're splitting in half. They said I have severe nipple damage to the front of my nipples and that I need to let them heal so I have to exclusively express and not even try to get her to latch for the next week or so. They tried to get her to latch on the less sore of my nipples but they couldn't get her to at all and it was agony.

They said the damage is likely caused by the nipple shields as well as poor latch.. i got really upset and said I was just about ready to give up but I've been advised I must keep pumping to prevent mastitis as infection is quite likely. They've swabbed the nipples to check for infection. Also said she has a mild TT but that today wasn't the day to do anything about it, presumably as I was so upset

So that's me for another week, at least I don't have the trauma of DD rejecting the breast and getting hysterical.

I knew BF would be hard but this is next level. Thanks for the kind words everyone

@Sofaqueen123 we had a private specialist look at her TT and they scored it 5/8 and said they wouldn't usually do anything unless it was 1-4

@thismotherhoodthing you poor thing - this sounds horrendous. A week at a time sounds sensible. The only thing I would add to that is a suggestion that you maybe consider setting yourself a deadline to get it working (as well as you need it to) or stop. It's so easy to spend weeks/months always trying the next thing - I spent most of the first three months in that cycle, and I was lucky in that it did eventually work out for me and I'm still feeding her at a year. But if I have a second I'm giving myself a deadline of six weeks to get it right or quit, because I do feel like I missed out on stuff in those first months, when breastfeeding was all consuming. Best of luck whatever route you take and know that if you do end up switching to formula feeding she will be absolutely fine (and you being well is much more important to her than breastmilk could ever be)

Congratulations on your daughter. It sounds like you’ve had a really hard time. I had the same - my daughter wouldn’t latch for a week and then it was sooo painful when she did, nipples hanging off. I just had to do what you’re doing - pump to save them and latch when I could. I decided it was a marathon not a sprint. In the end I think that some of the pain was just around her being small and when she grew it got less painful. We also had to add in a formula bottle here and there because she was quite small. By 6 weeks she was fully breastfed. We fed until she was 2.5. I’m trying to remember when it didn’t hurt any more and maybe that was 4 weeks ish but it was a lot better before that I have to say.

Hope it improves for you soon but don’t worry about having to pump and bottle feed to let your boobs heal we did a lot of the back and forth for a few weeks