Milk delayed. Have to give top-ups. Now not sucking right.

[thelady]

I bit desperate here. Baby born by em CS on Friday night (23rd). No-one noticed until yesterday that my milk hadn't come in - she was sucking for 10 - 15 mins every hour, wouldn't settle, wouldn't sleep.... After 5 days of no sleep, I was getting desperate too!

Gave topups after each feed yesterday and today - aptamil readymixed between 25 and 40mL after each feed - and she was a different child. Sleeping peacefully. Feeding well.

This afternoon she fed off both breasts - about 15 mins each - then took 25 mL topup. Woudn't settle, so attempted to latch her on - refused - gave more topup. Still wouldn't settle. Gave other breast - took, but not sucking well and only for 10 mins. Awake again less than an hour later, latched on after a lot of frustration on both sides, but again not sucking well.

I can't not give top-ups as they're threatening paeds etc. with her weight loss (born at 4.02kg and down to 3.6 yesterday) so we really need to get this sorted.

Help? Please?

What can I say, thelady? You are having a really hard time, but it doesn't change the way breastmilk is made and stimulated. Nature doesn't let you off

Most women will not produce enough to build up and maintain a milk supply unless they express a minimum of 8 x a day including at least once at night....4 hrly expressing won't do the job

(It's different if breastfeeding is already well established and someone then has to express temporarily for some reason - but that's not applicable to you.)

Expressing to build up and maintain a supply always needs a team effort and lots of encouragement and support. It's hard, hard, hard.

thelady, really do feel for you. Must be so hard when you live relatively isolated and your DP has to take care of the hotel. Is there any way he could take a few days out to support you - after all with EBM he can do feeding/changing/burping etc and you can just concentrate on expressing? Can your folks or his come to stay for a bit to help maybe?

It must seem like all your nightmares before the birth have come true regarding managing the hotel and baby Is the hotel quite busy in the lead up to Xmas?

Unfortunately I found that although BF every 4 hours is the general rule, as tikitok says it doesn't seem to be enough to continue stimulating supply to express every 4 hours. I don't know why its different but despite my best efforts there was an inexorable downward slope for me AND I was basically expressing after every feed (and had quite decent supply at the beginning).

Maybe have one last concerted bash at expressing as often as you humanly can for 3-4 days and then take stock after that to see if it seems to be making any diff?

More {hugs} and we're here for you!

Thelady - i am sorry you are having a nightmare...you always think bf will be easy! I hope things get sorted for you.

Your dh sounds like he is being amazing!

CB xxxxx

No advice, just wanted to lend some moral support to you and DH.
Best wishes to you and little Frances.
Daisy - how kind of you to offer to see them!

hi thelady,

Looks like we've all found you from over on the December antenatal thread!

I'm so sorry you've been having such a difficult time and that the care you've received has been so jaw-droppingly appalling. I can't believe how amazingly well you've been doing in the circumstances and that you have persevered this long despite everything.

I completely agree with what buzzy says - if you feel bf is getting in the way of developing a bond with Francis then there is nothing wrong with choosing to ff instead - Francis will thrive either way.

So pleased that your DH is being so amazing which must make all the difference and I really really hope you can get some decent support soon. Even if the BFC are too far for a home visit maybe they can still give good advice over the phone? Wishing you all the best and will keep checking to see how you are getting on xx

Thanks to you all!

I got a message from the mw yesterday to say there was a prescription waiting for me at the health centre. I went down today - no urgency - ti find it's an antibiotic and my wound is apparently infected. Aaaaaargh. Apparently still OK to express and feed, though. Why couldn't the mw at least mention that the prescription was urgent?

DH is being wonderful, but we couldn't cope at all without my parents who are doing babyminding during the day (Frances won't settle anywhere but on a human) and laundry duties. They're here until Boxing day....

You know what - I remember dd1 being like that (only wanting to sleep on someone). It took a while (maybe you don't want to know this)...but eventually she did learn. Have you tried a hot water bottle to warm her bed up?

Hope the antiboitics work!

thelady, have you tried putting something in her cot/bassinet/basket which smells of you? E.g. pillow-case off your bed? Worked for my DD (actually I just stuck the whole pillow in her moses basket!)

your MW is just the pits isn't she? to think she wouldn't tell you about an infection

Great that you have your parents there though. I'm sure they're loving spending time with Frances and you'll have a very special Xmas this year!

Hello thelady

Sorry to hear of your difficult time. I did not manage to get DS2 latched properly and he was very sleepy and reluctant to feed. I went over to full time expressing 5 weeks ago. I express 8x a day and have found a few things to help. One was to purchase a double pump - I have the Ameda Lactaline which is great. These are pricey (£85) but can be bought off ebay. A hands free bra is a must as well - I have an Easy Expression halterneck bought from the US through ebay (only £7). This means I can feed DS2 and play with DS1 while pumping. I also got a car adapter which means we can go out for the whole day - it is possible to be discreet pumping in the car!!) There is a support board which has lots of useful info (messageboards.ivillage.com/iv-ppexluspump)Sorry, don't know how to link!

I am working towards 12 weeks when I can then start dropping pumps as apparently milk supply is established by then. I really want to eventually get down to 4 pumps a day. It is by no means the easy option but I am happy that I am providing breast milk while still able to try breastfeeding. I have heard some LOs managing to bf successfully at 4 months so I live in hope!

Good luck

hello thelady.
wish I had something more useful to add that masses of sympathy and best wishes. it sounds like you're doing everything you can but have been seriously hindered by some crappy support. grrrr. anyway, just wanted to let you know that i'm thinking of you and hope the antibiotics sort things out in terms of your wound.
and fwiw, i was a ff baby (my mum nearly drove herself demented trying to bf with no support- west cumberland in the late 1970s prob v similar to borders today!) and have more-or-less grown up into a robustly healthy, well-rounded, educationally successful adult. so if it keeps you sane, and enables you to have a simpler relationship with frances (and your dh) don't beat yourself up about switching to ff.
(pls don't shoot me down in flames!)

Sorry - missed the bit where you said you had the Lactaline pump. Sleep deprivation is taking its toll!

Have emailed you thelady, hope she can help out.

hi thelady....I'm sorry I never made it in to see you, but I was stuck in traffic and didn't have the time in the end

I'm sorry to hear that things are still not great for you, but your DH sounds like a wonderful man. And you are doing a great job, regardless of your feeding issues.

I wish I had some words of advice, but it's all been said already.

I was in a similar situation with my DS five years ago, and gave up after 5 weeks through a distinct lack of support (I was in Edinburgh then, so maybe it's endemic to that part of scotland?)

Sorry about your scar infection too. Mine took an age to heal due to a mild infection that just wouldn't go away.

I would say to watch out for signs of thrush on your nipples or any lingering pain after feeding, which could mean thrush in your ducts. I've had that twice now, and it isn't pleasant.

Good Luck xx

TheTwelveDAISYOfChristmas: don't worry about it. I think I was probably a basket case by then anyway.

Wish I could stop crying over this - nothing more I could have done, I know, but I keep thinking there must be something else worth a try.

It does get easier thelady, honest. Just keep feeding her as much as you can, expressing as much as you can and topping up as needed.

How is your DD doing? Is she gaining weight?

Re expressing; I didn't start producing any quantity at each pumping till about 6 weeks, and agree that seeing tiny amounts is very demoralising. Do you look at a photo of her, or have her near you when pumping? This is supposed to help with the letdown. There is quite a bit on kellymom about encouraging your letdown by massaging as well iirc.

I hope your wound infection is getting better

thelady sorry you were feeling so bad last night
Apologies if I'm off beam but it sounded a little like PND talking in your post
Do you have a half decent GP you could discuss this with? If you're body is used to having 1 hour of exercise per day and you're not getting this at the moment then could this be contributing?
I have been reading the posts to your threads with interest as I would like to try BF this soon-to-be-here LO again here after it not working for me last time.
Hope the CS scar is on the mend now.

Seen the GP - she said not PND but understandably traumatised. Add to that what I think may have been PMT (bleeding had pretty much stopped and started again with a vengeance) and I was in a very bad place.

The exercise hasn't been taken for more than a year now - too busy at the hotel and then too uncomfortable with pregnancy - but I agree it would probably help.

I am allowing myself to grieve for what didn't happen, as the milk has well and truly gone now. DD won't take a dummy, and when she's desperate with tummy gripes the only thing that quiets her is latching her on - which is not particularly comfortable for me but worth it at 2am to stop the ear-splitting shrieks. Odd, but there you go.

Sounds to me like you are doing everything humanly possible.
We're here for you anyway if you you need an outlet to grieve through.
Loads of Dec babies now but I'm still waiting

Hope things are continuing to improve for you thelady. I just think our bodies are so amazing for growing a baby so I guess we have to accept sometimes that they don't do everything to perfection. I had surgery for endometriosis 2 years ago and no-one could explain that to me either. You are absolutely right to grieve.

Still waiting here! Have had almost constant period like cramping for some time now but just seems to be LO pushing in tender places rather than any sign of anything in particular. Have booked myself in for an acupuncture session this Friday to try and spur things along if nothing's happened by then!