Milk delayed. Have to give top-ups. Now not sucking right.

[thelady]

I bit desperate here. Baby born by em CS on Friday night (23rd). No-one noticed until yesterday that my milk hadn't come in - she was sucking for 10 - 15 mins every hour, wouldn't settle, wouldn't sleep.... After 5 days of no sleep, I was getting desperate too!

Gave topups after each feed yesterday and today - aptamil readymixed between 25 and 40mL after each feed - and she was a different child. Sleeping peacefully. Feeding well.

This afternoon she fed off both breasts - about 15 mins each - then took 25 mL topup. Woudn't settle, so attempted to latch her on - refused - gave more topup. Still wouldn't settle. Gave other breast - took, but not sucking well and only for 10 mins. Awake again less than an hour later, latched on after a lot of frustration on both sides, but again not sucking well.

I can't not give top-ups as they're threatening paeds etc. with her weight loss (born at 4.02kg and down to 3.6 yesterday) so we really need to get this sorted.

Help? Please?

prettybird: how did you convince your son to swallow? I, too, am wondering about whether the sucking is productive - the midwife had a look at the latch etc. and said it was good, but you'll gather I'm not completely convinced of her expertise.

The NCT counsellor basically said to feed to demand - but Frances isn't demanding....

tiktok: brevity is completely understandable!

I woke dd at 1am (4h after last top-up) and she latched on like a gin-trap closing, despite having shown no signs of even stirring, never mind waking for food .

She was on for 20 mins one side, then 10 the other. I changed her again (did it before I tried to feed) and she wouldn't settle, so offered both breasts again (10 min each side). She still was miserable - so a top-up was provided (60 mL which was tanked!) and she's now conked out (I hope!).

All this means that my plans to wake her 3 hours after the last BF are in ruins - that's in 30 mins time - so I'm going to wake her 2.5 h after the top-up and hope.

Sadly, I don't get any choice in my midwife, and as I can't yet leave the house I'm stuck with whoever comes to see me.

hi thelady

just wondering how things are going this morning? Sounds like you had a busy night.

Let us know how you get on with MW etc...

It just took time - and also listening very hard to see if he was swallowing. IIRC, If he wasn't, he got taken off, waited a few minutes and tried again - but I didn't really want to do that as it could take so long to get a latch. The "posting" technique seemd to help too - so much boon was stuffed into his mouth, he had to swallow!

He also used to take up to 40 minutes a side and was never a strong sucker.

But I still managed to exclusively feed him for over 12 months - and he is now a happy, healthy 7 year old who is pretty much following the 50th centile for both height and weight (when I can be bothered measuring him)

to keep your supply up you need to breastfeed or pump every 2-3 hours, including at night.

Right, to stimulate Frances's interest, she needs to be close to you as much as poss, 24/7. That means carrying her around in a sling during the day and having her cot next to your bed at night. Having her close to your body will actually waken her up.

Make sure she is offered the breast every 2 hours. Make sure she is winded - this may take a while. DS1 would take ages to bring up his wind and was as cranky as hell until he did!!

The actual physical act of BFing is exhausting for a newborn and, Tiktok might shoot me down in flames for this - don't faff around too much with her latch unless you can see it is hideously shallow. If she's on and sucking, leave her too it.

If you can, get your DH to drive you to a BF counsellor. You really need to see an expert - can you beg to go and visit your nearest one?

Geh - even with top-ups the lady isn't for settling this morning. Frankly, I think that's probably a good thing. Problem is both she and I are falling asleep while trying to feed!

My CS wound went 'flood' again this morning - disconcertingly like wetting yourself, but pink and rather scary instead of just embarrassing. Daft mw keeps trying to convince me that 'this is the last time it'll leak' when I know that she's no way of predicting what's going on inside.

Latch wise - I know it's not perfect (think her lower lip isn't out the way it should be most of the time) but if she's sucking strongly I tend to leave her to it. It's an odd tingly-itchy-sore feeling a lot of the time.

Right. Off to dig out those BF counsellor phone numbers and see what's to be done. DH is more than willing to help, but unless we can find someone within a half hour's drive, I think the game's a bogey - it's too long for Frances to be in the car-seat, and frankly probably too uncomfortable for me too.

thelady...my cs wound also took an age to heal, but it did get there in the end. As long as it isn't inflamed or smelly it should be OK, but if you're at all worried can you get to your GP?

Re the itchy tingly sore feeling when feeding....you will have been given IV antibiotics during your section so it might be thrush I've had it twice now due to ABs for slight wound infection and for mastitis, and that sort of describes how it felt, but also pain shootying through the breast after and between feeds. If DD has it in her mouth as well it can make feeding sore for her.

Having said that, the pain can just be down to poor latch. My dd has quite a shallow latch and I tended to leave her even if it wasn't quite right as she was getting something and it wasn't too sore, but I ended up with repeated incidences of blocked ducts as she wsn't draining the breast effectively.

I really feel for you, and want to reassure you that it is hard at this stage, but that it does, for the majority, get easier.

I hope you can get to see someone who is in a position to help

ps, DD was also very sucky, even after feeds, but it was usually due to wind as she was taking in too much air by not being latched properly. It used to take up to 20mins to get the wind up after a feed.

Right - finally got through to someone at La Leche after being 'put through' to silence twice. She was in Leicester! The nearest La Leche leader is, as I suspected, in Edinburgh, and I've been given her number. I may try and ring this afternoon and see if we can arrange something.

I'm going to try cup feeding the next top-up (with lots of towels handy) if I can find a picture of how it's supposed to be done, and send DH in search of a syringe if that doesn't work.

The other suggestion was to get a sling, so that's another mission for DH (he's away to Edinburgh tomorrow to collect my folks from the airport) unless I can find something suitable online.

cup feeding - yeah best to find a picture or film if you can but while you're searching, pretty much like an adult would sip from a cup from memory (DS1 had quite a few cup feeds back in the day). Tilt a small cup (bottle lid is fine) so you have a shallow pool, hold baby so top lip sort of lapping it up. Don't think you pour (though doubtless someone who's done it more recently will be on to confirm) for fear of too much spluttering but just let her slurp etc..

Yup, very messy from memory!

where are you in the world thelady?

would a doidy cup be suitable? they are kind of slopey. I ordered mine from the NCT website and it arrived within 2 days, but I'm sure you must be able to buy them somewhere.

Jedburgh, in the Scottish Borders (postcode TD8 6AG if you want to look on multimap/similar).

Small town stuck some time in the 1950s - League of Gentlemen could have been a documentary about this place!

i don't know how you feel about this, but I'm travelling to Fife from N England on Thursday and often go up the A68, so right through Jedburgh.

I'm no expert, but if you just wanted a chat and some moral support from someone who has been there and has finally got it sussed (DD is 6 months now), we could maybe meet for a coffee at the woollen mill place.

e-mail me if you like.....daisybump @ yahoo dot co dot uk.

but i understand if you'd rather not

and I always thought Jedburgh was quite charming

thelady I know all the LLL counsellors in Leicester and they are absolutely fantastic. Don't be afraid to keep ringing them as I know that they will not mind at all.

I have a wilkinet sling that was given to me by someone at the LLL and my DS has grown out of it now. If you would like it please CAT me and I will put it in the post.

Here are some instructions for cup feeding: quite far down the page

Good luck

Hello TwelveDaisyChristmas, this is the lady's OH (she has a small person firmly attached to her). Yes please do drop in on Thursday. Just come to the hotel - we do far better coffee than the woollen mill

I will do......drop me an e-mail with the name of your hotel so I don't go wandering into a random establishment asking to see "thelady"

I should be passing through early afternoon.

NineUnlovelyTinselDecorations: I don't know what CAT is, I'm afraid, but if you're willing you could email me at ljnoble @ gmail . com

TheTwelveDAISYOfChristmas: I'm looking forward to meeting you.

All my worst suspicions have been confirmed.

Frances hasn't lost weight, but has only put on about 100g since Friday.

I told the midwife that I had spoken to a breastfeeding counsellor from LLL - and she'd never heard of them. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH! That's like a F1 fan never having heard of McLaren!

DH was there, and will vouch that she said in so many words that "we would expect a 10 day old baby to be going 4 - 5 hours between feeds" and "well, there's nothing you can do other than feed your baby to increase the supply, so I'm afraid I'm out of ideas". Then she asks me if my breasts feel empty after a feed, just after my telling her that my breasts have never felt full!

I gave Frances a bottle while the midwife was here - too much pressure to try the cup - and she promptly threw it all up. 30 mins later she's unhappy again, but falls asleep after 5 mins on the breast.

Bad words. Rude words. B%%y professionals who aren't!

How is your ddwhen she is awake? Is the (relatively ) happy and alert?

100g is good, no great - that's 4 oz! I'd have killed for a 4 oz weight gain in less than a week! Although ds never lost weight after his large immediate post natal loss, he struggled tp ut on 50g a week - and some weeks nothing at all!

thelady....4ozs in three days is great.

Where is she now wrt her birth weight?

thelady I have emailed you about the sling.

100g in 3 days seems fine weight gain to me but don't take my word for it (or that idiot midwife), speak to someone who knows about BF and babies.