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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

More Tales from the Unsupportive Breastfeeding Support Group - LONG

42 replies

BabiesEverywhere · 22/11/2007 13:07

When I arrived the HCA running the unsupportive breastfeeding ?support? group was giving a lecture on how to choose child care...child minder/nursery. All her own opinions, most of which I did agree with but a bit confused as to why she was telling us how to choose our childcare in a breastfeeding group...but she meant well.

Again this week, the HCA running the group links hunger to night wakening and says that babies who wake up at night need formula, to start solids or more solids (depending on what the child is currently on)

I understood that the modern research showed that introducing a bottle of formula, baby rice etc did not affect sleep patterns either way !?! Please correct me if I am wrong (off to Google for specific information) I asked if babies were just on breast milk wouldn't they just learn to sleep though in their own time. Answer a curt No. Oh I said my daughter did.

I will ask her next week...how/why hunger is linked to night wakening and was it part of her course and which course was that ?
(As I know for a fact her boss is very into exclusive breastfeeding and BLW and would never teach the crap she comes out with. Her boss is currently looking into this woman's work so fingers crossed for changes)

More worrying I overheard (OK, I was listening in) to one of the conversations with a new mum, she had pulled to one side and heard the following. It turns out that the new mum had asked about physical problems she is having feeling tired, light headed and pains, numbness in her legs etc and had asked the HCA for medical advice.

The advice given by the HCA (with no medical training), was to do nothing, come back next week, when the HCA would assess the situation and see if she needed a referral to a HV. Now her symptoms could mean nothing and properly are minor. I have no idea, I am not a medical expert but neither is the HCA. Even if the HCA thinks this mum?s health issues are minor, that is NOT her decision to make

I explained to the mum that the HCA had NO medical training and that it is very important that she speaks to her own midwife/HV or GP to get a proper medical opinion on her symptoms.

Lastly she was trying to convince another mum to wean early and actually said "Even if you give up breastfeeding, you [another mum] can still attend this group, after all we NOW have two bottle feeding mums." She went on to say how good and how proud she is to have these FF mums in the group. Now I am not suggesting that these mums should be chucked out once they wean. They could be supportive to the other breastfeeding women or if breastfeeding didn?t work from them, they might pick up tips for next time.

But what irrates me is that we now have two formula feeding mums who hang off the every word of the HCA and give weight to her biased anti-breastfeeding attitude and opinions. As these two mums think early weaning onto baby rice and mixed feeding is the best thing in the world (good for them) but it is very damaging to the women trying to exclusively breastfeed, who now have three women saying just wean and then your child will sleep.

I have also heard two breastfeeding mums say they feel uncomfortable in bringing up breastfeeding within this group and feel under pressure to explain why they haven?t weaned yet or introduced solids and dare not mention that they?shock horror?.nurse their children at night !!! One mum said she does dare speak, as she is worried what will be said to her I'm so cross, on her behalf

It is so bad that the new mum thought she had stumbled into a weaning group by mistake !!!

Lastly had a 5 minute chat with another mum with 6 month old breastfed baby, who had been discussing formula options with HCA and about trying to introduce a cup as the baby wouldn?t even taken EBM in a bottle. She expressed interest in me still feeding my 15 month old DD. She was told that you HAD to stop feeding at 6 months as they was no health benefit in feeding further (not sure where she got this information from, she didn?t say)

At the start of the conversation she said she wanted to wean at 6 months, I congratulated her on getting to her 6 month goal (her own deadline for nursing) and mentioned that she had given so many health benefits for her child, did she feel proud ? Within a few minutes she said she didn?t really want to wean and only felt she should, as everyone said 6 months was the goal. I should add I only listened and answered her questions about my daughter (how often she feeds at 15 months etc) But it just goes to show lecturing AT the mums does not help them, that?s a waste of everyone?s time. The mother needed to make her own mind up about what was the optimum feeding outcome for her (though in my biased head I am pleased she is going to continue nursing but I understand just because I think it is great doesn?t mean everyone else thinks the same)

I have also asked for the local peer to peer support group (whom I am training with) to get involved with this breastfeeding support group and I am happy to help out once trained. If the peer to peer group can?t get involved this group, we have a backup plan of setting up a different group in the same area and help local mums that way. Though I will still be attending this group weekly with an ear for anyone who needs it.

Lets hope the HCA's boss, the peer to peer group or the consultant midwife (I bumped into and asked for her help with this group)will make a difference for this group.

I am running out of people to bother !!!

Following on from here

OP posts:
BabiesEverywhere · 22/11/2007 13:10

One mum said she does not dare speak,

OP posts:
Mossy · 22/11/2007 13:27

BE that this HCA is allowed to even go near bfing Mums who will do anything for the promise of a good night's sleep!

I really hope your P2P support group can do something, or you can set up a better group soon.

ruddynorah · 22/11/2007 13:32

what exatly is this boss doing to look into the HCA's work? is the boss attending the group?

DooDoDooDoDoMaNuhMaNuh · 22/11/2007 13:35

Oh, God.

This is a breastfeeding support group, right?

I would suggest it's not an appropriate place for ff mums - I mean that very kindly, and it's said against the background of this HCA being an inappropriate person to have leading a bf support group.

Can you ask what the remit of the group is? Is there a written "aims and wotsits" sort of statement type thing about it? It must have funding of some sort for the HCA to have hours there. It seems that it's more of a "let's stop these mums bfing and get them to use formula and wean early" group, which isn't an appropriate use of funding - actually, ask how it's funded because whoever has would be interested to learn what their money's being spent on, I think. It may well be that if this stupid woman continues thus, the funding will be pulled. In fact, if she doesn't want to do it, maybe that's her aim?!

See here for wording about ffing mums at bfing groups

TigerFeet · 22/11/2007 13:46

Be, you are a star for caring so much. Many people would just tut, roll their eyes and walk away.

fwiw, dd was exclusively bf and she slept through from a very early age, so weaning/ffing doesn't necessarily = sleeping through - as I know you already know - but feel free to use me as an example.

I think it is a crying shame that sleep deprivation is used as a reason to give up bf. Surely ff babies wake at night too?? It was my experience that it is far easier to bf at night anyway, all you have to do is flop out a nork, no faffing with bottles at 3am.

(btw BE, we are hoping to come over before Xmas, are there any weekends we should avoid?)

TigerFeet · 22/11/2007 13:48

sorry, should have said weaning/ffing = sleeping through - bfing doesn't.

I'm sure you know what I mean

BabiesEverywhere · 22/11/2007 15:01

I'm not sure what the boss is going to do.

IMO this HCA is doing what she feels is the best way to help the mothers in the group.
She had issues (which is hasn't gone into in details but refers to from time to time) and couldn't breastfed her own children.

She has a lot of baggage with her experience of breastfeeding. She feels it is no better than formula (her children were just fine on formula) so why bother enduring the pain, tiredness and awfulness which is breastfeeding (in her opinion).

She reacts hostilely to the long term breastfeeding mums as odd because we say it doesn't hurt, we only experience an expected amount of tiredness and we enjoy nursing, even at night if need be...this is alien to her own experiences.

She projects her own feeling about 'nasty, painful, tiring' breastfeeding and tries to educate the women onto early weaning, early solids and formula, as why suffer breastfeeding.

Sadly, this is why I feel she will never lead this group properly, as she projects her own negative opinion of breastfeeding onto the mothers, who think she is fully trained (choke) and that she must be right as she runs the group

Shame she didn't get better support 30 years ago when she was mothering her children.

I have a copy of the local breastfeeding policy and noting which she breaks when.
-----------
TF, Sister visiting weekend of 7th December but any other weekend is fine Look forward to your visit

OP posts:
TigerFeet · 22/11/2007 15:23

What on earth is this woman doing running a breastfeeding group? She clearly has ishoos. You have to feel sorry for her given her negative experience but surely she shouldn't be projecting onto anyone else?

Our local bf support group was run by a community midwife who was entirely pro-bf and was a huge support to all of us. Such a shame it isn't like that for everyone

DooDoDooDoDoMaNuhMaNuh · 22/11/2007 15:44

She wouldn't be allowed to be a bfc, without bfing herself.

She's the wrong person to be leading this, and so stridently.

Stay on it, BE - you're doing a good job.

BabiesEverywhere · 22/11/2007 17:30

Thanks DoDo. I knew she couldn't be properly trained the moment I met her but the other mums think she is the expert because she runs this group.

Tigerfeet, Yes the group I attended in Yorkshire when DD was a newborn was fantastic. A lovely group of new mums and second time mums. Babies ranging from newborn to older toddler.

Everyone was allowed and encouraged to talk about breastfeeding issues, recent studies, their own experiences.

Any problems (unless the asker requested privacy of course) were discussed as a group and all mums were able to put forward suggestions.

The HV who ran it was a lovely pro breastfeeding lady. She would gently correct mums who gave suggestions counter to current guidance.

In other words the opposite in every way to this group I know attend.

OP posts:
BabiesEverywhere · 22/11/2007 17:31

know now

OP posts:
JenT · 22/11/2007 17:33

OMG I missed the start of your thread but wow.. WOE is this lady doing talking like this to ladies who need her help with breastfeeding??

You seem to be trying so hard to get things corrected. I wish you every luck! it has made me really cross that this is happening!

Wallace · 22/11/2007 20:29

this is terrible and really quite sad

You need to print some notes which say something like "The lady that leads this group is a complete loon and talks absolute nonsense, so take no notice" and secretly slip them to every mother who walks through the door

BabiesEverywhere · 22/11/2007 20:34

I actually carry business sized information cards, on which I have printed the local NCT details, the four breastfeeding support charity help lines and kellymom.com site. I sneak them to all the mums who ask for support. The mums who seems happy with the advice I have not approached.

.....and I verbally tell them she is pants

OP posts:
pastilla · 22/11/2007 22:47

carry on the good work be

shreksmissus · 22/11/2007 23:11

Message withdrawn

BabiesEverywhere · 23/11/2007 14:40

I think she has had training as she is aware of the guidelines but she thinks she knows better than the silly goverment or WHO, as her FF children were just fine.

Yes, she is breaking almost half of our town's Breastfeeding policy statements. The other half are hospital policies which she can't break.

OP posts:
terramum · 23/11/2007 15:07

If she is giving out medical advice then she is setting the health authority & herself up for one heck of a lawsuit so I would report her on that with some urgency - that might make her bosses more likely to replace her than her appalling bfing knowledge.

I am completely shocked that anyone would employ an HCA for a bfing support role. If this person's boss knows of specific instances like this & has done nothing to correct it the tbh I would take your complaints to a higher level, pointing out the cost implications to the trust if this woman's advice & recommendations damages even one breastfeeding relationship.

BabiesEverywhere · 24/11/2007 18:53

I have a detailed complaint going to her boss tomorrow. Which outlines examples of when she broken specfic points in the Breastfeeding Policy (which the boss a reportedly very pro-breastfeeding lady wrote)

I spoke to the boss on the phone a few weeks ago and asked for her to get further training and the boss readily agreed.

But comments made since show she does know the guidance but doesn't believe it and thinks her way is best. So further training will not help this person, she will never go against her own prejudices against breastfeeding.

So on this offical written complaint I have asked her boss to find a new leader for this group, someone who has breastfed herself and someone who is pro-breastfeeding.

I explained that the HCA would be perfect to run a weaning group and/or a more general parenting group but she is the worse possible person to run a breastfeeding support group, as she does not believe it is normal, necessary or possible to breastfeed exclusively to 6 months and alongside food until 2 years or beyond.

I have chatted to a women from the local peer to peer support group and she is going to speak to the boss (as she already knows her from some committee)and they will offer one of the groups trained volunteers to run the group.

Fingers crossed that this works.

OP posts:
moondog · 24/11/2007 19:24

Good for you Babies.
This idiot of a woman actually sounds dangerous.You couldn't find someone more likely to fuck up a poor innocent new mother's chance of b/feeding if you tried.

As you surely know, important thing to do is to keep your complaint neutral and factually and not let emotion and personal feelings get in the way of the complete facts (bloody hard I know.)

BabiesEverywhere · 24/11/2007 19:39

I am having my DH to read over the compliant before I send it, to check that I am not being rude or emotional.

I have three sections.

  1. Introduction explaining how the group fails to work and a conclusion with my hope that a pro-breastfeeding person can found to run this group
  1. Table with points quoted from the Breastfeeding policy in one column and examples of when that point was broken/ignored by the HCA in the other.
  1. My Diary of Events (which is more personal but hopefully not rude)

I am in two minds about adding this last section, as it is more personal than the other sections. But I decided to keep it as it includes incidents which don't break the breastfeeding policy but IMO are important for her boss to know.

i.e. Shouting at me for asking a question. Also the fact that I am currently banned from talking or asking questions in this group setting (very supportive) AND the fact she gave medical advice to another mum.

OP posts:
moondog · 24/11/2007 19:40

Can you post it here for us to read too?

3andnomore · 24/11/2007 19:45

What is a HCA? And why is someone, who obviously has no clue about bresatfeeding allowed to lead a BF support group?

BabiesEverywhere · 24/11/2007 19:45

Bit unsure if I should post it online..it is very long and has names/places in it.

OP posts:
3andnomore · 24/11/2007 19:46

Do you mean Health care assistent or Health care advisor?