Anyone used Baby Whisperer methods when establishing breastfeeding?

[mears]

Out of interest?

What is recommended for newborns?

I did because I found my nipples were extremely sore and that my dd (and later my ds) didn't take long feeds if left to do it on demand. It was great that I felt that I could "allow" myself a two and a half hour gap between feeds but I have to say, there was a lot of push pull between my dc constantly wanting to feed and my not letting them.

A lot of what BW says is complete tosh but the bf advice and establishing a night routine worked for us.

I can't remember exactly what the advice was on newborns - fairly uncontroversial, I think. BF on demand for first few days to make sure that milk comes in and babies aren't dehydrated (can't take very much at first), after that try to cut back to regular feeds every 2 and half to four hours. I also started expressing at least once a week so that they would take a bottle - have no of friends whose children wouldn't when they tried to wean them and by six months, I had really had enough and was very keen to get them on to bottles.

Is expressing and bottles advised within the first 3 weeks can you remember?

And what exactly was the night routine?

I may need to get the book at this rate - am just going on previous negative comments that I have read

I did too. Found it has really paid off to make sure that DD took full feeds and didn't snack. This doesn't mean force feeding, just waking her gently if she fell asleep when feeding. Often stripped her down to her nappy (this was the middle of summer), so she didn't get too warm and sleep too quickly. She didn't want to feed too frequently anyway, so it was often more a case of waking her to feed every 3 hours to get night and day sorted. As lalalonglegs said, she recommends letting newborns feed on demand anyway, and also stresses that you should use common sense and not ignore a genuine hungry cry from your baby. But I did find that by following the structure I was fairly quick to pick up on DD's different cries. BF babies don't just cry because they're hungry!

The most important thing is that you do what you're comfortable with. If you're not bothered about having routine in your life, you may not be happy following BW. There's no right or wrong way to bring up your baby (within reason obviously). Happy mums make happy babies.

Get the book from your library. I've only heard positive comments about BW. Bought the book after recommendations from a couple of friends. You don't have to follow it to the letter though!

Have to say, I thought the advice was appalling, although at the time I did ty and follow it. I remember something about if 3 hours have not passed, your baby can't be hungry. Now feel very guilty about the amount of crying ds did, when I was saying, well he can't be hungry. The NCT bf counsellor put me straight. I remember the phrase 'demand feeding leads to a demanding baby'.
She is actually very dismissive about bfing I feel.
Anyways, it's a bit of a bugbear for me, the book issues so many dire warnings about what will happen if you don't follow the advice.

Thanks for information. For those of you I haven't met here, I am actually a midwife with an extensive knowledge of breastfeeding. My sister would like me to help her establish breastfeeding with her twins when she has them nest year, however she is reading the baby whisperer book and I am worried that we will not be seeing things the same way.

I probably do need to read the book from cover to cover but knew mumsnetters would have experience.

Don't recall BW mentioning cluster feeding - ie baby wanting to feed all evening. This is actually fairly common I think, but I didn't deal with it as well as I could have done because the books didn't mention it! Agree with Charliegal on this one, and wouldn't follow BW advice next time around.

Would know better now, and settle myself in for the evening on the sofa with a new born and the remote control if cluster feeding comes up again.

mears, I think your eyes would pop out if you read it. I know Tiktok has also criticised her advice in the past. What annoys me is that you are vulnerable as a new mum and when you read a book by an 'expert' who has worked with 100's of babies, you don't think 'well, she hasn't met mine'.
The book is couched in nicey nice yorkshire language, but imho, is another one all about controlling babies' behaviour.

Madlabowner, yes, I found that once you surrender control and enjoy your baby, the world doesn't end. Mind you, I am still sleeping with and bfing my one year old and if the BW was alive today, sure she would disapprove.

That is what is worrying me. Cluster feeding is normal - I can't condone leaving a baby to cry instead of breastfeeding. This could be tricky.

No, she doesn't ever condone leaving a baby to cry. Read the book and see what you think. She's no Claire Verity.

Mears, I found BW appalling for me and I bf dd to 17 months.

BTW Tracy Hogg never breastfed herself, not that it discounts her advice per se.

Agree with charlie about the 3 hour thing driving me bananas and results in newborn dd screaming for feeds, with me merrily thinking that it COULD NOT possibly be hunger when she just fed 1 hour ago. I was lying in hospital with dd, trying to establish bf-ing with her so that she could be discharged from SCBU.

Also the bit about not allowing baby to fall asleep at the breast because you have to do the EASY (Eat-Activity-Sleep-Youtime)routine. With dd it was ESESASE! I wasted so much time trying to wake my dd up after a feed when she was not having any of it. And then trying to make her fall asleep after an activity when she need the boob to fall asleep. Shudder.

And she IS dismissive of parents who do not follow her advice. She calls them "Accidental Parents".

And

sorry, stray "And".

Although BW is not generally seen as a controlled crying advocate. She does have a PUPD (Pick-Up-Put-Down) method of 'encouraging' a baby to sleep. Which also confused me because my dd would never fall asleep from awake and certainly picking her up from a cot did not lessen the crying and putting her down would just make her even more hysterical. Dd just needed the boob to fall asleep or movement or rocking.

To me, it was the same result as controlled crying.

She also says that nipples are a breeding ground for bacteria and therefore you should wipe them before (or was it after?) feeds.

Here is a review of the book from Kellymom which may tell you what you need to know.

I'll get the book from the library so I can discuss fully with my sister.

I do think having breastfed yourself helps - hope sis agrees

In one of her books she talks about needing to do a "yield" - i.e. the mother expressing milk and if there is not "enough" that "proves" the baby is hungry.

Doesn't make sense to me. Someone with a lot more knowledge of b/f will explain better than me. However, sometimes I express and get virtually nothing yet my dd2 will happily feed and get loads of milk. (I can tell the difference between her sucking and actually getting milk out).

BW also seems very keen on mixed feeding, which doesn't generally help with establishing and maintaining your milk supply.

She also goes on about the baby not being dependent on "props" e.g movement/feeding. Then introduces her own recommendation i.e. shush/pat which to me is a prop by another name. Her ideas re dummies also confuse me as she seems inconsistent.

I read it for the routine bit
I think I followed the advice about writing down when you've fed them so you can see how you are doing

I reread it later and decided it was mostly rubbish

Thanks for that Mossy - have sent a link to my sister.

Hmmm - I just know I am not going to agree with her advice.

Very hard then to support someone establishing breastfeeding if her methods seem attractive.

I must admit to being a fan of BW but that is maybe because my ds seemed to fall into her Eat, Activity, Sleep routine without much encouragement from me and he was generally an easy baby to deal with. IMO her ideas are a middle ground for those who need some kind of routine and guidance but want to follow their baby's cues too. From memory, none of her advice (on feeding or anything else) was particularly controversial and with hindsight much of it appears to be common sense (which as a new mum you often don't have much of!!)

I think your sister is very lucky to have somebody as qualified as you are to give real advice regarding breastfeeding. IMO you should read what BW says and discuss with your sister which bits of it you disagree with and why so that when the baby arrives you don't end up in an emotional argument about who is right and who is wrong!

Blueshoes- you sound ike me! I really resent the time I spent trying to follow that advice. A year on, I know that it is all bull. Oh yes PU/PD, sigh, feel embarrassed at the stupid hours I spent on that one.
I'm very interested that she never bf herself, it does explain some things about her tone re bfing.

Mossy- thanks so much for the Kellymom link- wish so much I had read this a year ago. Still feel angry and upset about the information in this book. You know what chaos you are in immediately after your first baby and I really thought this book was giving all the answers.

Hi jelliebaby, it is great BW works for you - I don't deny it will work for many mothers. But tbh your baby would probably have fallen into a routine anyway (even my difficult one did after 4-5 months), BW or not. You should take full credit for your happy baby.