Going cold turkey breastfeeding a dairy free baby

[whatsthescoregeorgedoors]

I don't want to breastfeed any more. Please do not try to persuade me to do this.

My son has CMPA and probably multiple allergies or intolerances. I have cut everything g I can think of out of my diet, he is on omeprazole. After a period of time in which he was settled and we were getting somewhere with sleep etc I ate something that disagreed with him again and we are having more shit feeding, waking through the night, screaming, failure to nap.

And I am starting to hate him. I don't want to feed him to calm him down any more, I just want him to be on formula that agrees with his tummy and to be able to parent both him and my older child effectively. I want my DH to be able to help me with my high needs baby and to be able to spend time with my DD.

My milk supply keeps going lower due to stress, I have put on half a stone but am still struggling for milk supply despite pumping (breastfeeding teas also upset my son), he is scraping by in terms of weight gain (very stressful, about to drop another centile on top of the 2 already) and I have psoriasis all over my body. I need to stop
Worrying about how much he is getting.

I need to stop. He is 3.5 months old and wonMr take a bottle easily - he will take a bit of Alfamino/neocate mixed with Nesquik or breastmilk when hungry, but not enough.

Can I just go cold turkey (happy to pump to prevent mastitis)? Will he switch if I just make breastfeeding unavailable, or go away for the weekend (DH is encouraging me to take DD away so that he can battle it out)?

What bottles can I use that might make his reflux less bad?

In my experience it’s the taste of the allergen free formula that puts them off. I bf my CMPA etc baby but I tried occasionally to get her to take a bottle just in case it was ever needed as I couldn’t pump. It tastes foul, nothing like breast milk or regular formula. Agree that the CMPA FB groups are the best resource for figuring it all out.

I woukdnt wean an allergic baby early. If anything you're meant to do it later as they have a sensitive gut and you make make everything much worse. I ended up giving up about 20 foods including carrots after making that first food then he couldn't tolerate it. I understand your dread, mine wanted to feed to sleep and woke up 10 times a night right through to 3. I fed all that time hating it as he wouldnt go near the formula, wouldnt eat food. Now I've stopped I wish I hadn't as he sleeps worse, i can't get him back to sleep easily like I could and his weight has tanked even more. Its an awful and worrying situation. If I were you I would push the neocate formula as babies do get used to it. I started at 10 months and it was too late for him to tolerate it. You need to start young and their taste adjusts, if you don't you'll end up like me, still awake with a 3 year old who I only just stopped feeding!!

I don't know from an allergy perspective, purely from BF my 2 DC. Very much wanted to bf, DS was a massive eater - fed forever and I gave in at about 2 months and introduced a formula feed at 10pm. I didn't feel like I had anything to prove once DD cane along and to do what was best for the family rather than just have schedule dictated by feeding. I ended up introducing a couple of formula feeds earlier with her but by 2.5 months despite having a bottle at night, me feeding at 7ish am I literally couldn't put her down before her 10am feed. Having not fed overnight you would think it was a quality feed but clearly not. As soon as I replaced with formula at 7am she could be put down and life was so much better. I gave up breastfeeding completely not long after that and didn't even engorge. She was putting on weight but how much food could she have been getting if I could just stop feeding and not leak at all. I am definitely no expert and they are late teens now so a long time ago but you need to do what's best for everyone in the family, including yourself. No one's going to give you a medal for preserving and if it's tipping you over the edge then that's detrimental to you all. Take DD away for the weekend and go and have some fun. Good luck

Blimey sounds very tough, you have my sympathy. My 2nd baby had reflux, was just impossible to put down. I remember one afternoon where he vomited 12 times in 3 hours even though I was carrying him around and I got ao worried that BF was making him unhappy but he wouldn't take a bottle. His poorittle tummy rumbled audibly and he was in so much discomfort in those early weeks. Things did improve a bit when I went dairy free, it was a tough year overall in which, against all advice baby slept on me the whole time.

Anyway I just came on to ask a really basic question so don't beat me over the head, please, but how much water are you drinking? For me, drinking water almost to the point of not being able to face another glass, helped keep supply up, which is very helpful when baby is vomiting a lot too.

If you have PND getting regular breaks from the baby might help, but personally I would resist going cold turkey at this age, especially as warm weather arrives. Baby could easily get dehydrated. If you do go down this road your DH needs to be extremely careful.

I went cold turkey after my DS - my supply was ravaged by mastitis, and he lost an insane amount of weight and was admitted to hospital. I pumped for a few weeks but had no idea what I was doing and the support was shit with it. Nobody would support me with stopping however. It was like going bottles/fully neocate was the devil 🙄🙄🙄

I would wean off slowly - when I went cold turkey I ended up so horrifically engorged I was sobbing. My milk did all go away after about a week though.

From what you’ve said, you sound like you’ll be happier bottle feeding. Breastfeeding was the cause of my mental health issues after DS1 (que the purists clutching pearls and finding every excuse under the sun about how I possibly don’t know what I felt!!)

A few things/tips if you can call them that..!

1. you definitely need to go away for a weekend with DD as baby will be able to smell you. If you’re home when he’s having a bottle, someone else needs to give it ideally, and you be in another room

2. minbie bottles are apparently very good for moving over to bottles. Personally Dr browns worked for my DS

3. to get your milk to go, stop feeding, and pump every X amount of hours for 10 minutes, or stop as soon as your milk stops flowing. I say X amount of hours as it depends how fast your boobs fill up. Then every pump session, reduce the time you pump by a few minutes over the course of a few days, hopefully it won’t take long.

Also reach out to your health visitor and feeding team, they’re there to support with stopping bfing as well as establishing/continuing it!

Have a look at exclusive pumping.com as she has articles on stopping too - exclusivepumping.com/weaning-from-the-pump/

Sending you a massive hug, I was where you are with DS1 and it’s utterly shit.

FWIW, moving to bottles was 100% the right decision for us with ds1, though I felt sad about it for a long time. Looking back, it was the right choice, and he was a different, much happier baby on neocate x

Your story is similar to mine. DS has allergies and even though I restricted my diet, nothing worked. He was sick all the time, always crying, slept for 1hr max before being sick and exploding in his nappy, went through 12 nappies a day.

At 4 months I moved to bottle feeding and went cold turkey. It was a horrible day and it took until 10.30pm for him to take the first bottle but I couldn't carry on the way I was so there was no choice for me. It was one day out of his 4 month life that he'd been totally miserable and Ill throughout anyway.

I only went cold turkey on the bottle though, the formula was introduced really gradually. So for the first day it was all expressed milk, 2nd day it was a tiny amount of formula mixed in, then the ratio gradually increased so it took about 10 days until it was only formula.

There's lots of good practical advice above from Pp's who have better memories than me about bottles/techniques . The main thing I can remember is the utter misery that filled the first 4 months of DS's life, for me and him. I wish someone had been able to get me to switch earlier, but looking back the day we went onto the bottle was the start of me actually beginning to bond with him and see parenthood as something vaguely positive.

I had a baby like this. The number 1 thing that helped him was weaning early. I'm sure your dietician will suggest this to you.

Honestly, once he was on solids he was a different baby. He put on weight, ate better, slept better the whole thing.

I don't think I could have stopped breastfeeding him though as he reacted to the formula as well. He'd just be sick everywhere after a bottle and the smell was rank.

I could have written this, and I am wincing remembering the dark place I was in.

I just stopped one day, DP went to the chemist and bought pepti and on the way home got me all my favourite dairy treats.

First few feeds I had to do too off with DCs cheek on my boob. I could tell he was a little confused but he took it, then DP started to feed him. Now he feeds himself in his nuna leaf, it’s so cute.

I got really sore boobs, didn’t wear a bra for about a fortnight, then I had a blocked duct so was pushing down and massaging that one night in bed and milk was just pouring out. Then next morning, gone, comfortable and no more pain.

DCs skin cleared up in 2 days, he slept through the night a few days later. Now you’d never know he had intolerances unless he accidentally eats dairy at nursery and we have a shit few nights again.

It was the best thing I’ve done for my son, without a doubt so far. I only wish I’d done it sooner. Everyone told me my milk would be fine, the best thing, not trace amounts blah blah and it was all bollocks.

hope you sort something soon

OP

Give yourself a big hug.

You absolutely can formula feed, you need to look after your own health as well as your baby.

As long as he is gaining weight he is getting enough nutrition.

I was taken to the Dr as I wasn't feeding, the Dr just squeezed my chubby leg and said, "Well she's getting it from somewhere", I was 10Lb at birth. I have never tasted breast milk.

I didn't like the taste of milk. I'm lactose intolerant as an adult but I can tolerate small amounts in cooking but I still cannot stand the taste or smell of milk and your little one might be the same, he might just not like the taste.

I was born in the 1960s so early weaning was the 'trend' and as I was quite big I was probably ready for it.

@RainingZen

I think I am drinking enough water - hard to in this weather I totally agree and I am often dehydrated in the morning, but I am drinking to the point where my wee is clear through the day. Thank you though - all suggestions are helpful!!

Thank you so much all. I know in my heart that this is the right thing for us, all of us. I am proud of having battled to this point but it really has been a battle. I am going to try to give him a bottle this morning - he is holding out - and will pump a bit today just to keep options open in case it will be a disaster. Hopefully it won't be!

I am going to try to give him a bottle this morning

Morning one I found easiest to switch because he was just gagging for milk, try the top off thing and cuddle him in close so he still gets your smell and sees the same view when feeding.

Thanks all! He took 60ml this morning in the end - a few tears to start with, but a protest rather than massive distress. Once hungry all fine. All formula with tiny bit of banana nesquick. He might not thrive on that amount but he won't die either, so onwards and upwards to the next feed. I can feel my stress levels dropping already. Fingers crossed!!

Oh my mama I hear you. My baby was the same. It was hell on earth. I breastfed but tried neocate several times including during a hospital admission an absolutely nobody could get him to feed. I did keep breastfeeding and I still don't eat any of those 4 things and it's a slog.
I was so down sometimes, suicidal at times, the crying and stress was unreal.

If you don't want to breastfeed any longer I think you should engage with HV and GP / pead to move forwards and monitor his feeding. They can tube feed if it comes to it.

The only point of this post was to tell you that it will get better and you will get though this and so will your son. You are doing a wonderful job in extremely difficult circumstances. Please be kind to you both, he's poorly, it isn't him, I promise you that.

Well done OP.

With all the 'breast is best' we hear it makes people think formula is rubbish when it is a perfectly good product and not all mothers can breast feed.

Look forward to your sanity returning and your stress falling away and just enjoy your baby - until your DH takes over a feed or two.

Thank you

And a huge shout out to all the mothers on this feed for being so brilliant and understanding, particularly those who bf babies with allergies, because it is hell on Earth. But however you fed your babies, I have huge huge respect for you all. Fed (preferably without constant screaming!) is best.

@whatsthescoregeorgedoors

Thanks all! He took 60ml this morning in the end - a few tears to start with, but a protest rather than massive distress. Once hungry all fine. All formula with tiny bit of banana nesquick. He might not thrive on that amount but he won't die either, so onwards and upwards to the next feed. I can feel my stress levels dropping already. Fingers crossed!!

🤞🏻 it keeps getting better. Do ask your dietician about early weaning. We started at 4 months with baby rice. It meant he got another milk feed withou having to use the bottle.

We were also told to add oil to his purée and do lots of coconut yoghurt (though that might not work depending on the nut allergy) avocado was also good as full of fat. he finally started to put on weight then.

Fwiw he's still super skinny. He eats load but is just very long and thin

@Twizbe

Thank you! The paediatrician said I could do baby rice with milk now if I wanted to, but he wasn't keen on it, so I stopped - am hoping sweet potato or similar will persuade him.

He took 40 just now and has gone down for a nap. Again, not what I want him to take forever, but enough to stop him starving!

I think he will be long and thin - my DH is 6ft and was a failure to thrive baby back in the day (but quite chilled apparently, not screaming!). But knowing that it is not about what I put into my own food will make a world of difference to my mental state. And my teeth - have an emergency dental appointment today - all the gluten free biscuits have been bad for my teeth and amongst all the worries I had dropped the ball and not spotted the issue. Hopefully I can get myself back on track. Even if he doesn't sleep better, the removal of a source of anxiety is a load off.

One thing to check if your baby is really bad at taking the bottle and if had any breastfeeding difficulties is to check for a lip tie? Supposedly it doesn't affect feeding but for my little one it definitely did as she couldn't flange her upper lip at all so you couldn't see it as curled inwards when feeding (breast and bottle). This meant she had a poor seal and inhaled a lot of air and gave her really bad wind, especially burps that she couldn't tolerate. Dairy free formula helped her be a bit more comfortable but the mechanics of feeding needed sorting too! She used to get so uncomfortable when feeding due to wind build up, though in her case she would try feed more for comfort and exacerbate the issue 🤦 would then reflux more as milk sitting on top of air. She would sleep poorly as constantly had trapped wind. There's a specialist in Huddersfield and one in London if it's something you're interesting in looking into? She also had scar tissue from her posterior tongue tie surgery revised too using laser treatment at same time as the lip tie. HTH

I'm sorry its so tough OP, I think that age was absolutely the worst for me, for us it was around the time people started taking us seriously and we were diagnosed with egg and CMPA and also reflux. There's a 'normal' sleep regression that happens and mixed in with the uncertainty and stresses it was probably my lowest point.

The main advice I have it to whatever you can to get yourself able to deal with it. So: if a family member can take the baby for a walk, if. you can make sure you have a hot shower and a walk every day, and a nap - it will be different for you but whatever you need to keep sane and keep the strength you need. If you need to stop feeding to do that, then make sure you get support in doing so.

Its great you've had a good start this morning. Was it the Neocate? I know it smells and tastes a bit weird so it can take them a while to get used to it.

I was able to keep breastfeeding but for us, luckily she kept her weight up: sleep was our big issue, and the thing that I struggled with. One thing to note, which may not be an issue for you but I found weaning incredibly stressful, so I'd advice not thinking of it as a 'magic fix' which I probably thought it would be. DD had - and has - some fairly benign skin reactions to things like strawberries, aubergine and tomatoes. But at the time, it basically felt like I was constantly discovering a new potential allergy whenever I introduced a new food. She was also on omeprazole for her reflux, but it really. didn't help enough. Essentially, I felt like my life was trying to solve the puzzle of what was wrong, and trying to find a new 'fix'. Looking back, what helped the most was doing everything I could to keep myself able to deal with what was going on and to manage with where we were.

In our case, while she still has the dairy and egg allergies at 2 1/2 (is most of the way up the dairy ladder though, egg is much more stubborn) the discomfort disappeared almost overnight around 9 months. Everyone had said it will improve when she starts weaning (it didn't) it will improve when she's sitting up (it didn't) but something like ten days after she started crawling - basically some sort of strenghtening of abdominal muscles - it was like flicking a switch. She's a happy healthy normal sleeper now. A bit of eczema, still the food intolerances but nothing major at all. If I had known it would take till 9 months I'm not sure how I would have got through it, but having a medical team you trust is so valuable, and learning to prioritise your own needs is also critical. I think now you've made the decision you want to stop feeding, give yourself a bit of time if cold turkey doesn't work out, because you'll get there either way. But good luck with it: it was so so hard, you will get through it though and take all the support you can for yourself, and every opportunity available to get to enjoy your baby as well, because it can feel like a thankless rollercoaster but I really do look back on it on something her and I got through together now.

Thanks @Ihatewinding

I have actually had posterior tongue tie and lip tie done by dr Levi kind, who was great. Unfortunately despite doing the stretches (which were awful) I think there has been some regression. I do wonder if the mechanics of bottle feeding are more difficult for my little chap, but bf not easy either. It is worth a try!

@cindarellasbelly

Thank you. I agree. I was hanging on for weaning and planning to br until then, but I have snapped. Part of the reason is because I know that weaning may not be the magic cure that I hoped. We plod on!

Also sorry to hear about the allergies persisting. It is so difficult, isn't it?

How's it going OP