I know you're all going to say that nobody cares about bl*dy Alphamummy anyway, but I still have to express my ANGER...

[emkana]

...at this

i commented too.

Have posted too.

What a stupid woman badly written article.

i posted too.

I have only one thing to say about Alphamummy - "Polly Filler". Had she mentioned "the useless Simon" and "the toddler Charlie" it would have been complete.
(Private Eye in case anyone doesn't understand).

Emkana, she is nowt but a thickhead.
You write more flyently and eloquently than that in your second language.
Things like that just make me laugh in a pitying fashion.

I have posted too.
and got annoyed
and all before breakfast

I'd have to agree with Daisymoo about The Times being mostly written by bimbettes with no experience or objectivity. On the other hand, her article has elicited some pretty witty and apposite comments, so I doubt she'll be sticking her head above the the parapet on this one for a while yet... (the comment by Alison on the morning of 7th November is especially good)

I've posted too- couldn't resist. Bunch of uninformed claptrap

My mother in law used to be full of instructions and commandments. I used to thank her politely and even said what good ideas these were....then I went and did my own thing (which i had thought about and chosen hopefully for all the right reasons)We are all different with different needs. Women especially shouldn't hurt each other about this sensitive issue.

Personally (and I am definitely pro-BFing and supportive of BF-ing mothers), I think what she's getting at here is the fact that the government are trying to boost their BF-ing numbers (because as we know, BF-ing stats in the UK are crap) with a 'by any means necessary' approach, rather than in a way that is genuinely benefiting mother and child. When I had my son, all the midwives I saw pre and post natally said unhelpful things like 'of course you'll breastfeed, won't you?' as if I had no choice in the matter, and the antenatal classes I attended presented BF-ing as this blissful past-time that I'd be a fool to miss out on. So when I found myself 2 weeks post c-section, hospitalised with excruciating mastitis and at the end of my tether, I felt like a failure. And not one - not ONE - BF counsellor, midwife, female doctor or nurse said to me 'Why are you beating yourself up about this? Stop!'. I saw 2 Bf counsellors and they were quite pissed off when I said I thought I was going to stop BF-ing. It was ridiculous. I felt like I had failed them. It actually took a male A&E doctor to say to me 'This isn't a test of how good a mother you are, you know!'.

So, although I think the promotion of BF-ing as the best and healthiest option for babies is necessary and right, I don't think the attitude of some quarters of the BF lobby is that helpful (wouldn't go so far as to call them 'Nazis' - ridiculous). The end result of so many things that are 'good' for families seems to be to make women feel bad about themselves and their choices, and I am whole-heartedly opposed to that.

silly ignorant woman. i have commented too.

So glad you posted, Tamum - the nonsense about genetics was annoying me.

Would be interested to hear any more thoughts you have on the paper too.

LoveAngel - I am a breastfeeding counsellor with NCT. It is not a breastfeeding counsellor's job to tell you to stop breastfeeding. It is your resposnibility and yours alone to decide this. If you approach a breastfeeding counsellor for help and support with a breastfeeding concern, then that is what she will respond to - she will assume that you want information on how to make breastfeeding better for you.

I don't know which organisation the bfcs you saw were from - how did they let you know they were pissed off when you said you wanted to stop? I am bemused at this. People occasionally tell me they are thinking of stopping or have actually stopped and I am not pissed off! Why would I be? That's the mother's choice. I do know women sometimes feel they have 'failed me' if they stop after I have tried to help, because they apologise to me! But that's in their heads, not mine.

I do ask that women who find breastfeeding very hard/painful/unrewarding etc take responsibility for deciding themselves when to stop - I know it can feel like you want someone to tell you what to do, but don't put that onto a breastfeeding counsellor. That's not their job. You might as well criticise your plumber for not noticing your garden is a mess and doing that instead of fixing your heating

I note the article fails to note that the relevant gene is present in 90% of the population

I've posted too.

Tiktok - It sounds like the women you counsel are very lucky to have you helping them. But not everyone out there is as thoughtful or as professional as you are. I've heard friends describe experiences very similar to the one LoveAngel had - it does indeed happen sometimes. Maybe it's not the norm but it does happen.

I don't understand why a breastfeeding counsellor can't or shouldn't discuss stopping breastfeeding with a mother, when it seems appropriate to do so. Especially in a situation like LoveAngel described, where she was in excruciating pain and "at the end of her tether". Even if the counsellor was brought in to "fix" the breastfeeding, shouldn't she also consider the whole woman? Doctors who perform IVF certainly at some point must discuss with their patients whether it is time to stop trying after multipe unsuccessful attempts. Some might argue that it would be irresponsible of a doctor to just charge ahead with furthur treatment without first having such a discussion. Why is it not the same with breastfeeding?

foosh - of course breastfeeding counsellors discuss stopping with mothers...this sort of discussion happens all the time. They also discuss supplementing with women. It is not at all unusual to support a mother by helping her wind down breastfeeding in the most comfortable way, or to help her with info about how to offer supplements and protect her breastfeeding at the same time.

My point is that the bfc cannot tell the mother to stop. The discussion about stopping has to be initiated by the mother. It often is. I am often asked 'do you think I should stop?' or 'is it ok to offer formula?' and I don't ever tell a mother what to do, yes or no - and nor should any bfc.

But if a mother asks me about how to resolve a breastfeeding issue, and she is in agony and despair, I leave it open for her to bring up the option of stopping, and then we go through what are her pros and cons about it.

I cannot be expected to read her mind - if she wants to stop, then she knows she has that option anyway. She does not need me to explain it. If she really wants to stop, then she does not need me to give her permission to do so, and still less does she need me to ignore what she has told me about her desire to continue breastfeeding, and order her stop trying.

But of course a breastfeeding counsellor can discuss stopping!

Following up - I do see women at the end of their tether, and weeping buckets about the whole thing. In this situation, I can assure you, they always say something like 'sometimes I don't even know whether I want to carry on' or 'I wonder if all this grief is worth it' or 'people think I'm crazy to be doing this'....and there you have an opening to talk about what she wants to do.

LoveAngel was asking people like me to say 'Why are you beating yourself up about this? Stop!' and that is just not appropriate.

I have to say as someone who went to a bfc when at the end of my tether I would have had a meltdown if she had told me to stop. I was feeling undermined enough already, and I went to a bfc because I wanted to bf.

She told me much later that she was really surprised that I didn't stop, but at the time she just offered the help I asked for and left it at that. I do think anything else would have been inappropriate.

ib, thanks for this

It is not the breastfeeding counsellor's job to read people's minds. If you want to stop breastfeeding, then stop. If you want to talk about stopping before deciding, say 'I want to talk about stopping.' If you don't want to at least explore how to make breastfeeding better, then don't contact a breastfeeding counsellor....

LOL made me laugh. As the report states a high amount, 90% I think have this gene so likely most of us would have it.

Tik Tok

I didn't ever think a BF counsellor's job was to tell me to stop. I suppose I phrased it wrongly. It would have been nice, though, if there had been more human empathy and understanding from the two that I saw, particularly the second, who was definitely negative about me using a bottle to feed expressed milk, nevermind stopping BF-ing (I expressed for a while after I stopped actually BF-ing - abpout 6 weeks I think, as it wasn't so painful with the pump for some reason). She said I was 'sabotaging' (!) my BF-ing and that I should be using a cup or syringe. She also said that if I 'gave up' at that point (6 weeks post-natal) I might as well never have BF'd. Great. Thanks for that input!

I guess I just felt hugely that they were interested in the breastfeeding, the breast, not ME, the human attached to it. Now I'm not condemning them for doing their job, but I really think a more holistic approach is the only way we are going to get more women in this country breastfeeding successfully and happily. I assure you, I wasn't projecting my own feelings on to either of these women. I didn't want to stop BF-ing, but it got to a stage where clearly it wasn't working out.

I certainly didn't feel I failed the BF counseloor (a woman I heardly knew...?), and I didn't feel I'd failed my baby (I never bought all the 'formula is evil' claptrap anyway). What I was left feeling, I guess, was that the whole experience had been a failure, a negative one. That I hadn't felt supported 9from the moment a midwife brusquely shoved my breast into my baby's mouth, through a catalogue of unhelpful input from the medical profession, right down to the Bf counselors, who I felt weren't that supportive of me).

Please don't take this personally, or as an anti-BF-ing rant. I am totally supportive of BF-ing mums, love to see mums Bf-ing publicly and extended BF-ers, and hope to have a better time of it next time round. But that was my genuine experience.

Sorry to prattle on everyone xx

LA, you were let down horribly by those who were meant to be supporting you

Have you seen this? NCT's reasons to be proud leaflet
From the 6 weeks old bit: Half the risk of chest infections now and up to 7 years old

I don't think that's nothing, not by a long way!

hunk - well, my son is nearly 3 and has never had a chest infection, infact, has only ever had one illness (an ear infection, which cleared up without anti-b's)

(insert 'proud of my healthy child' emoticon)

That's brilliant!

Where were the BFCs from, btw? Would you know who'd trained them?